Has anyone refused vaccines?

[AllyRae]

Please don't flame me or tell me how great vaccines are. I'm simply interested in hearing the experiences of people who did NOT vax, or who delayed vaccines. I don't want a debate....I just want some information from the "other" side...



I am really strongly leaning towards stopping Brandon's vaccines, or at least delaying them until much later. Ohio has a philosophical clause and will most likely be homeschooled, so none of those "he can't go to school" arguements apply here.

The first thing that changed my mind on vaxes was when Bran was given hep b without my consent at birth...and then this month, he was almost mistakenly given dose 3 of hep b when it wasn't scheduled. He is not at risk for hep b...I don't have it and he's obviously not having sex. When I asked why he needed it, the doctor said "people won't get it when they start becoming sexually active, so we give it now".

The second thing was the recall of the rotavirus vax after a lot of kids got seriously ill. It leads me to believe that the government is forcing people to do something to their own kids that hasn't even been proven safe.

The third is that there are a ton of vaxes now that are required that weren't around when I was a kid...and I certainly don't know people who have had a lot of these "rare" diseases.

The fourth is the point someone made to me once....if Bran *happens* to get one of these rare diseases (God forbid), there is a known protocol that every hospital knows...there is not a known protocol for life threatening vaccine reactions because many times the reactions are covered up.

The fifth is that I believe I should have a choice as to what goes in to my son's body. The fact that parents are not given a choice and are not informed of ALL cons leads me to believe that informed consent is rarely given....

The sixth...thermosil...it was "banned" from vaccines, but is still being used.

And the seventh...Bran has had a moderate-severe reaction to DTaP....the first 2 doses he had, he screamed for 3+ hours afterwards. And now, I learn that there is a connection between Failure to Thrive and DTaP... I was never told of this connection and now I'm absolutely livid to learn of it... (Bran has been diagnosed with FTT)

"General Systemic Reactions have been reported by parents of vaccine damaged children. They can include a body rash, vomiting or diarrhea within hours of the shot. Or the child may exhibit a sudden unusual decline in health including loss of appetite and weight (failure to thrive), chronic diarrhea, ear and respiratory infections, or the development of new allergies. Children who fail to thrive or are chronically ill for months following a DPT shot should be checked by a physician."

http://www.909shot.com/Diseases/whooping.htm (http://www.909shot.com/Diseases/whooping.htm)


So, I'm not entirelly sure what I'm going to do now.... I want to do all the research possible before Bran's next round is scheduled, but I'm leaning towards at minimum, delaying and at the very most, refusing some, if not most vaccines.

[SarahK]

Here's a thread that sort of talks about it a bit...

http://www.onceuponalife.com/showthread.php?t=2917

[Jillian]

I answered you already.

We are doing a delayed/selective vaccine schedule.

So far, Janelle got her tetnus/diptheria (no pertusis, this is the vaccine that scares me the most, neither of my kids will ever get it) shot at 18 months and her hib shot at 18 months. Tetnus booster at 21 months, and another booster scheduled for 23 months. She will get hep b, mmr, and chickenpox (with the assumption that she will not catch measles, mumps, rubella or chickenpox before then, though I seriously wish she would) at around 10 to 12 years old. She will never get polio, prevnar (due to them not having any right now) or pertusis.

Caid will start his tetnus series when he gets to the climbing, jumping, running, acting like a monkey stage, untill then he really is at a very low risk for contracting tetnus.

[Carla]

We don't do vaccinations, but we dont' have a doctor so it's not really an issue (if we had one, we wouldn't do them anyway). Ethan did have the first two sets, but then I started becoming more informed and I personally feel that the risks of getting them outweight the benefits.

It's a very personal decision and if you are informed, no one has the right to make you feel like less of a parent because of your decision. I dont' feel I have to explain myself because instinctually I know that this is the best decision for us; I knew it before I even made the decision.

In Canada, we have the right to refuse vaccinations, but as far as I can tell, the doctors sometimes forget that. At one prenatal appointment, I was severely "reprimanded" by one of the doctors for not having my son up to date. Since then I tried carrying a copy of my rights concerning vaccinations because it was very demeaning being talked to as if I had no idea what I was doing.

On a more personal level, I had an adverse reaction to a tetanus booster I received last year which makes me hesitant about giving it to my children.

[Mrs.Greevy]

the only time that we declined a vaccination was when it was experimental, they wanted us to be in a test scenario and I definatly did not feel comfortable with that, plus it was for something that wasn't life threatening etc. not worth it

[Jillian]

Ohh, I didn't actually "refuse" anything as my pediatrician did not push anything. At Janelle's 1 month appointment we discussed vaccines in general and specifically and worked together to make a timeline...many of our peds patients don't get vaccinated.

[Dawn]

We decided to delay a couple of Alexia's vaccines.

She is 26 1/2 mos. and she has not gotten her chicken pox shot or the MMR. We may decide to have her get it in Sept. when she's 2 1/2 yrs. old...if not then when she's around 3. We have our reasons of why we chose to delay these...especially the MMR. There was alot of problems with Alexia and we had alot of worries. I wanted to wait until she was closer to 3, when autism is usually detected by. I'm not trying to start a debate whether the MMR shot can be linked to autism or not....but with all the worries and problems we had with her, I feel safer knowing that that vaccine is being put on hold for a while. :) As for the pox vaccine, it's still too new to me & I have problems with some things I've read about it. Luckily, her Dr. had no problems with our decision....if he did, he would of gotten the boot.

[aylhu]

We use a modified schedule, giving only one at a time and delaying some (MMR, esp.). Unfortunately, for insurance reasons, we had to change pediatricians and had to explain ourselves to the new one. And, guess what? We got a ped born in India who has Polio! So, of course, he was a bit perplexed with why we do it this way. But he was young and not stodgy, so I think that helped. We basically just stuck to our guns. As with our first ped, he was happy we were doing them, so that calmed him down a bit.

Dh basically feels tiny babies are not meant to get five immunizations at once! Their bodies aren't made for that.

As for thimerisol, dh or I need to see the insert before hand and read where it says it is not in the ingredients.

[Nichole]

We delayed the MMR and Chicken pox vaccines for Jackson. His ped wasn't overly pleased that we wanted to, but he agreed to. We may have him get his MMR at his 2 year appointment, but I haven't decided yet. I think I'm going to wait on the Chicken pox until he's closer to school age, and we'll decide then.

[Shel]

We delayed the MMR and Chicken pox vaccines for Jackson. His ped wasn't overly pleased that we wanted to, but he agreed to. We may have him get his MMR at his 2 year appointment, but I haven't decided yet. I think I'm going to wait on the Chicken pox until he's closer to school age, and we'll decide then.
This is what we did with Riley also, but it was actually our ped's idea. She did the same with her children. Riley still has not had the chicken pox vaccine. We'll wait until she is school age and then probably get it for her then.

[cimberdog]

We talked about it with our ped when Sam was born-he informed us that we were free to do what we feel is best for our child and that he would support us. He also discussed various studies that had been done, but that didn't have what he considered to be direct links between certain vaccines and autism, for example. This was 1 1/2 years ago, so forgive my fuzzy memory:)

Our chiro on the other hand, lectured us and pretty much scared us about getting any vaccines, much less even simple Tylenol in Sam! Her husband is a homeopath and although her kids have never been sick or hospitalized, I knew my child would be in a daycare center FT, surrounded by other kids, whose health history I'd have no control over. So we decided to go forward with the vaccines.

I can certainly understand your concerns, and I think that you, as the parent, are entitled to make the proper choices for your child. At this point I don't worry about vaccines, and I hope I never have to. But in weighing our situation, and the fact that some parents do not care for their children's health and well-being the same way we do, and that those children could be carrying around who knows what for illnesses, we decided to get Sam the vaccinnes.

I dearly respect our ped and he is an excellent doctor to Sam. Very kind, very caring, and very attentive to any questions or concerns we have. I think a lot of that also factors in to your comfort level. I would be appalled, and feel somewhat justified, if my ped talked down to me for making the choice not to vaccinate! Shame on them! It's their job to help you as the parent make informed, healthy choices for your child. And even though we did vaccinate, I see nothing wrong with the choice not to.

[Brooke]

I wanted to say something here. It's not meant as criticism but you've said in several threads that he doesn't need Hep B until he starts having sex. Well, that's not entirely true. Hep B can be transmitted other ways, too. Like if he's playing in a sandbox and is accidently stuck by a drug needle that someone threw there (needles show up at playgrounds and along bike paths, and they wash up on beaches, etc.)

Many people who carry Hep B have no idea how they got it. Before they vaccine was introduced, more than 30,000 children contracted it every year, and most did NOT get it from their mothers at birth. http://www.ama-assn.org/ama/pub/category/1809.html

Anyway, just something to think about.

[AahRee]

We elected not to give Katie the chicken pox vaccine, and we won't be doing flu shots. She had the rest of her vaccines on schedule, but if we had it to do over again, I would have also skipped the MMR and delayed the Hep B until she was school age. The more I learn about vaccines (what they're made of, what kind of reactions some children have to them, etc.) the less comfortable I become with the vaccines Katie has already had. Fortunately, she tolerated them all very well, and there are no signs of trouble. But I honestly think that if I had it to do over, I'd be delaying and/or opting out of quite a few more.

[Canuckgal]

I talked about this in depth with my doctor, my naturopath (who is a doctor) and my community health nurse. I also did a lot of internet reading. In the end, we delayed her 2 mos newborn shots by a few months so we're 'behind' We felt that this was a good compromise as she wasn't out in public a lot as a newborn therefore not a heck of a lot of potential exposure, and we wanted her weight up/immune system to develop a little more (with BFing). We just got her 4 mos shots the other day (she's over 6) and my ped 'mentioned' how sad it was that a local girl died of menengitis - her parents hadn't immxd her :rolleyes:

My naturo wanted us to wait a year, and then use homeopathic vax. We obviously didn't go that route but it was an option.

Dee

[suschi]

Hi, I'm a little late on this thread, just came across it.

My son born in 1999 suffered several problems after his 6 month round of vaccines. Failure to thrive was just one of many. I stopped all vaccines until I could get some answers, that was in 1999 and I am still waiting !
The drs could not determine a cause for all his problems but refused to listen when I told them he was fine UNTIL the day of those vaccines, then he deteriorated. As a result, my then 4 yr old did not get the required boosters for school entry, my then 7.5 month did not get any further vaccines, and my last child born in 2002 did not get any vaccines at all. Is it any coincidence that my unvaccinated child appears to be the healthiest of my five children? I have to say, I don't think so.

Just wanted to add our experience. They use a mouse weight gain test when testing vaccine potentcy, interesting to read about this.

[Chantal]

The only vaccine we refused was the Chicken Pox vaccination. My Dr FULLY supports that decision (he just has to offer it... some law or something :rolleyes: ) because of the lack of long-term studies for it. Meaning - he wont be comfortable giving that vaccine until he knows for certain if people will still be protected into their teens and adult years - because THAT is when chicken pox or shingles can cause problems.

Anyhow... no, we got all the regular vaccinations without incident or issue :) We just didnt get any of the *new* ones that you have to pay out of pocket for, as our Provincial Health Insurance Plan doesnt cover them, since they are too new.

[aylhu]

he wont be comfortable giving that vaccine until he knows for certain if people will still be protected into their teens and adult years - because THAT is when chicken pox or shingles can cause problems.

I think it's important to note that this is the case for many of them. Just because you get vaxed doesn't mean you are 100% protected. You can still get whooping cough if you're vaxed for it. Hopefully you won't get as serious a case. Same with chicken pox. Good point to make, Chantal, since many people aren't aware of that.

[Cami]

Chantal,

Out of curiousity, which ones are considered new and aren't covered?

Cami



Anyhow... no, we got all the regular vaccinations without incident or issue :) We just didnt get any of the *new* ones that you have to pay out of pocket for, as our Provincial Health Insurance Plan doesnt cover them, since they are too new.

[Chantal]

Chantal,

Out of curiousity, which ones are considered new and aren't covered?

Cami

Cami... if I remember correctly... the chicken pox vaccine, the prevnar (I think thats the one for ear infections), a meningitis vaccine... basically any of the vaccines that are not listed in the "little yellow vaccination card" that you are given at your first ped appointment, or at the hospital before you are discharged when baby is born. I'm sorry for drawing such a blank on this. :blush:

Now - I am not knocking the Chicken Pox vaccine... I do understand that in the States, its mandatory for kids to have it before entering school (right?). I also have read many articles that are truly FOR the vaccine - and others that are dead set AGAINST the vaccine. I guess it's all a matter in who you trust to give you advice about the vaccination. My sister had my nephew vaccinated with the chicken pox vac - and her and I get into some pretty good discussions about the pro's and con's of it :lol: I also had a huge chat with one of my daycare moms who insisted on lecturing me about getting the Ear Infection vaccine for Kaitlyn - after she had developed 3 ear infections in an 8 month period (my Dr said that if she had the ear infections back to back and didnt respond to the prescribed milder dose of antibiotics right away, then we would "talk about the vaccination" ;) ).

Truly - it's a really personal decision - and like I said above... It's all in how the information is presented to you, as a parent... and just how much you trust the person giving you that info, or the source of the information you are reading. Kwim :)

[Jillian]

Hi, I'm a little late on this thread, just came across it.

My son born in 1999 suffered several problems after his 6 month round of vaccines. Failure to thrive was just one of many. I stopped all vaccines until I could get some answers, that was in 1999 and I am still waiting !
The drs could not determine a cause for all his problems but refused to listen when I told them he was fine UNTIL the day of those vaccines, then he deteriorated. As a result, my then 4 yr old did not get the required boosters for school entry, my then 7.5 month did not get any further vaccines, and my last child born in 2002 did not get any vaccines at all. Is it any coincidence that my unvaccinated child appears to be the healthiest of my five children? I have to say, I don't think so.

Just wanted to add our experience. They use a mouse weight gain test when testing vaccine potentcy, interesting to read about this.

Hmm, both my kids have been diagnosed FTT on different occasions, Janelle 4 times now (with the latest diagnosis being just a couple weeks ago at 3 years and 21lbs) and Kincaid Just once. Anyway, Janelle didn't get her first vaccine till 18 months and Kincaid is unvaccinated.

[Jillian]

ok, Prevnar is not an "ear infection" vaccine. It is a vaccine that protects you against a form of meningitis. It just so happens that the same bacteria that causes this form of meningistis also causes many childhood ear infections, so it has the added bonus of helping prevent some ear infections.

It is not required in the US, and for awhile there was a huge national shortage so many kids didn't get it. It being called the ear infection vaccine is a common misconception by a lot of parents...

The other shots that are offered but not required here in the IS are HIB and meningcocal (sp???) both of these also protect against forms of meningitis. I think after 18 months old HIB is no longer a real risk and the shot is no longer offered.

[Eleanor]

Hib I think is required for daycare, but it's not given after the age of 5 (so not required for kindergarden entry). And the flu shot is recommended but not required.

There will be a new pertussis/diptheria out for the 10-12 year old set soon (next year or two?) but it won't be required for a while...but probably will be by the time most of are kids are that age...

[Brandi]

We got all of them. I didn't know there was such a debate on vaccines when my son was born. He was fine with them all. When our daughter was born, I was more aware of the debates, but still decided to go with the vaccines since my son had done so well with them. It's almost as if we as parents have to just believe one side or the other and go with it. I know that if something happened to my kids that i could have prevented with the vaccines, then I don't know how I would live with myself. If something happened from the vaccine, I would be horrified, but I could place blame on the doctors who say that we NEED these vaccines. I just couldn't live with myself if I had the power to stop it.

Anyway, we went ahead with my daughter's vaccines, but then she started having seizures (not from the vaccines) due to Tuberous Sclerosis a genetic disease. Because of that, she does not get the Pertussis vaccine, which is known to cause problems with seizures (at least in kids who already have seizures - I don't know about "normal" kids.)

[magoo]

the *new* ones that you have to pay out of pocket for, as our Provincial Health Insurance Plan doesnt cover them, since they are too new.
Actually, they are covered by the government of Ontario... perhaps others too. They wouldn't have been at the time that Kaitlyn would have been offered the vaccines, though. It was announced in June 2004.

http://www.wdghu.org/topics/cd/provfundedimmunization.htm

http://ogov.newswire.ca/ontario/GPOE/2004/06/09/c2802.html?lmatch=&lang=_e.html

[Jillian]

Anyway, we went ahead with my daughter's vaccines, but then she started having seizures (not from the vaccines) due to Tuberous Sclerosis a genetic disease. Because of that, she does not get the Pertussis vaccine, which is known to cause problems with seizures (at least in kids who already have seizures - I don't know about "normal" kids.)

Yep pertussis is not offered, or at least it isn't supposed to be, to any kid who has had a seizure. Febrile seizures might be an exception...I'm not sure. I just know that at this point even if we wanted Kincaid to get the pertusis vaccine we have no choice, he can't have it.

[Theresa]

Yep pertussis is not offered, or at least it isn't supposed to be, to any kid who has had a seizure. Febrile seizures might be an exception...I'm not sure. I just know that at this point even if we wanted Kincaid to get the pertusis vaccine we have no choice, he can't have it.
Do you know where I can find out more info on this? Ian has had a febrile seizure and is due to get vaccines next month.

[MrsPeacefrog]

yes your are right Jillian the Prevnar is to vaccinate against Pneumochoccol.. a form of meningitis and is deadly.

I have had all the vaccines for my kids, here in Australia all is free, except the chicken pox vaccine.... although as of this year all babies born after June 2005 will get the chicken pox for free..

It is $70 to get the chicken pox for any child born before that and I am seriously considering getting it done for my older two children, mainly because I saw my husband go through the chicken pox as an adult and it was horrible to watch and even more horrible for him to live through.

Although I am concerned it may not last into adulthood I am going to have to do more reading on this before spending the money. I do want to get it done asap though so they don't bring it home from daycare and Jacob gets it at this young age. (as i don't know when jacob will be vaccinated)

[Jillian]

Do you know where I can find out more info on this? Ian has had a febrile seizure and is due to get vaccines next month.

I really don't...I didn't really know this untill our pediatric neurologist told us at our first appointment that he can not have any more pertusis shots (Which he hadn't had any of) in his normal speech about seizures and seizure safety. Our ped re-iterated it at his next well baby check up.

[Theresa]

I do want to get it done asap though so they don't bring it home from daycare and Jacob gets it at this young age. (as i don't know when jacob will be vaccinated)
Here, it's done at the child's 12 month check-up.

Thanks, Jillian. I'll just remember to mention it at Ian's next visit. :)

[Dawn]

We decided to delay a couple of Alexia's vaccines.

She is 26 1/2 mos. and she has not gotten her chicken pox shot or the MMR. We may decide to have her get it in Sept. when she's 2 1/2 yrs. old...if not then when she's around 3 (to update: she got it when she was a little after 3 yrs. old). We have our reasons of why we chose to delay these...especially the MMR. There was alot of problems with Alexia and we had alot of worries. I wanted to wait until she was closer to 3, when autism is usually detected by. I'm not trying to start a debate whether the MMR shot can be linked to autism or not....but with all the worries and problems we had with her, I feel safer knowing that that vaccine is being put on hold for a while. :) As for the pox vaccine, it's still too new to me & I have problems with some things I've read about it. Luckily, her Dr. had no problems with our decision....if he did, he would of gotten the boot.

I know my initial post was over a year ago, but I just wanted to add that since we now have Angelina we are following the same delay in vaccinating as we did to Alexia. :)

[Chantal]

Actually, they are covered by the government of Ontario... perhaps others too. They wouldn't have been at the time that Kaitlyn would have been offered the vaccines, though. It was announced in June 2004.

http://www.wdghu.org/topics/cd/provfundedimmunization.htm

http://ogov.newswire.ca/ontario/GPOE/2004/06/09/c2802.html?lmatch=&lang=_e.html

AHHH great news :) Funny how things change in 4 years eh ;) I am still not *sold* on the Chicken pox vaccine... I am hoping and :crossfing that the schoolage kids in my daycare will bring it home for Kaitlyn :lol: and then the entire issue becomes a moot point :biggrin:

[nicolet]

I'm another one that has been selective with vacs. Austin hasn't had the chicken pox yet. But he has had all his other ones.





I'm immune suppressed, and eventually I will need all the vacs again. Austin isn't allowed to have any live vacs. But they don't do them anymore. I've just been afraid of the chicken pox. Because if he should have a reaction I can get it from him and I can be deathly sick or in worst cause scenario die from the chicken pox. Children need it before they start kindergarten. So I have had some time to play with when he gets it.

The ped has been on me it give it to him. I have been told that if he gets wild chicken pox that it will be much worse for him then if he with gets it from the vaccine.




I don't have Austin in day care for this same reason.