I can't even believe I'm posting this. But if you're like most of my IRL friends, you won't be surprised that I am. :awink:

To have #4 or not to have #4, that is the question.

If I'm going to do it, I want to do it very soon before Seamus gets any older. As it is, we're looking at a 4 year difference...which is the spread between all of my kids now, so that seems really long! I have to make an appt to get my annual IUD check (it's due this week) and seriously, if I don't decide now to take it out, then I won't. Er, probably.

Here is my list. Please weigh in if you like, but this is mostly public thinking. :)

Pros

I get to be pregnant again (I know... :crazy: ) and get to experience all those awesome baby firsts
We have a shot at a girl** - which means that I have my future hope of having a daughter to be as close to me as I am to my mom
The boys get a baby sibling...something they ask me for constantly
My sister is TTC (with IUI/IVF) now so she'd get to have a cousin the same(ish) age - and we could maybe even be pg together
Cons

Age spread between Shea and this baby
I'm getting older - could be a riskier pregnancy (for me and baby)
Money, money, money - overall adding another child and all those costs...and do I really want to pay for baby daycare (something I never had to do with our old famly situation with Joe mostly being at home) and how would I emotionally handle having to leave a baby at daycare
How would it affect my career?
I'm currently out of diapers and the baby phase - my youngest now can entertain himself and I'm getting more of a life/me time as a result
I might gain all that weight I finally manage to lose - and it might be harder to lose this time
I would want to make sure my sister was pg first. She knows I'm thinking about it (she's begging me to have another when she does!) but I would not at all want to be pg before her
I held my cousin's adorable 4 month old daughter on Thanksgiving and was so glad to do it...but didn't have a second of baby lust, I was happy to give her back
I started with the con list before I wrote the pro list...what does that say?
**I truly, truly don't care if I had another boy...I think that would be pretty cool/fun actually. I would not be trying only to get a girl, honestly. BUT...I would probably try to make a girl. :brow: My mom has a list of suggestions for me. :dead:

OMG Alyssa!!!! What a happy news that you are thinking about it :clap: ! i was sure you were done :) I can't really give you any advice, it's such a personal decision, just wanted to wish good luck and I'm sure whatever you decide, it'll work out great for you, guys!!

How does Joe feel about it all?

Do you feel that you'd at all be stretched thin with 4 kids (not money, but time, emotions, energy, etc)?

How does Joe feel about it all?
He is pretty much exactly in line with me...waivering but back to leaning maybe after 2 1/2 years of no. (We always planned 4 and after Seamus decided 3 sounded ok.)
Do you feel that you'd at all be stretched thin with 4 kids (not money, but time, emotions, energy, etc)?I completely forgot this on the CON list. Yep, I worry about not having enough time with #4. I worry about not having enough time now with #3. That seems like it's enough to rule out #4, doesn't it? :crazy:

If Chris wasn't fixed :lol: , that would be our only reason not to have another. Money (big thing) isn't enough to stop us, nor is anything else. Its just that I know my limits as a parent and I don't know that there's enough of me left?

I just wanted to address the first 2 cons. :)

- Age spread - as you know, I've started a couple of threads here on a big age gap because Alex and this one will be 5.5 years apart. I got TONS of positive feedback as a result of those threads and have also found lots of great stories in other places on broader age gaps between sibs. I'm actually looking forward to it, and am glad that my kids aren't 2.5 years apart (like they would have been if I'd been pg right away).
Alex is SO excited to be a big brother, he's so independent now, and he'll be in kindergarten when this one needs lots of attention, so he won't have to watch me spend all day attending to his sib while he gets shafted.

- Your age - I was 36 when Alex was born, and I'll be 41 when this one arrives. Alex is perfect (if I do say so myself.....) and I know there's a higher risk of issues now.....but overall, it's still a small chance. I have a much greater chance of having another perfect child. :) I'm overweight, but not obese, and I'm VERY healthy. Those things are far more important to the health of the baby than your age.

And in conclusion.....I would *love* to be pg with you. :heee:

I just wanted to address the first 2 cons. :)

- Age spread - as you know, I've started a couple of threads here on a big age gap because Alex and this one will be 5.5 years apart. I got TONS of positive feedback as a result of those threads and have also found lots of great stories in other places on broader age gaps between sibs. I'm actually looking forward to it, and am glad that my kids aren't 2.5 years apart (like they would have been if I'd been pg right away).
Alex is SO excited to be a big brother, he's so independent now, and he'll be in kindergarten when this one needs lots of attention, so he won't have to watch me spend all day attending to his sib while he gets shafted.

- Your age - I was 36 when Alex was born, and I'll be 41 when this one arrives. Alex is perfect (if I do say so myself.....) and I know there's a higher risk of issues now.....but overall, it's still a small chance. I have a much greater chance of having another perfect child. :) I'm overweight, but not obese, and I'm VERY healthy. Those things are far more important to the health of the baby than your age.

And in conclusion.....I would *love* to be pg with you. :heee:Two things here. :) (But before that, I've love to be pg w/ you too!)

Did you talk to/hear from anyone who had a group of kids (a gaggle :giggle: ) and then one more? Because I can't have 5. No, no, no! (Shit, I'll have twins after all of this...) I'm more worried about that than the age spread. KWIM?

And then...another con related to your point #2. If I do have this baby and something is wrong with it, I think I won't forgive myself for that....for waivering and going for it, and then to have something go really wrong. I know that sounds awful, I do. But it's the truth. (Is there a "hanging you head in shame" smilie? )

If Chris wasn't fixed :lol: , that would be our only reason not to have another. Money (big thing) isn't enough to stop us, nor is anything else. Its just that I know my limits as a parent and I don't know that there's enough of me left?My neighbor, who knows of my waivering and too has 3, said TG her husband is fixed b/c she would be me right now. Joe must go to the urologist soon...either way!! (My father did try to knee him to take care of it himself the other day when I merely suggested #4, but that's a whole different story. A joke. :awink: )

I really think that we would fit in another child, and make it work. But is that to say it's the best thing for my existing children and/or the hypothetical #4? Nope. I'm struggling with Aidan in school right now...and the other 2 are not really even in school yet. I worry that me working is having a negative affect on Aidan...not just working, but traveling for work...something that is increasing with more responsibility. Am I not working with him enough on reading, should I be doing more drills with him?

:gah: WTH am I even thinking of this? (But I know some of you get why. :) )

:woa: Wow Alyssa. Congratulations for thinking of TTC again.

If Jay wasn't fixed then I would be waivering on going for a girl too.

Shit, I'll have twins after all of this...)

I do know two women in real life who had three boys and became accidently pregnant with (identical) twin girls. :eek: The random possiblity of twins after already having three is one of those things that make me second guess trying for another...

My question is this: Do you think you'd ever regret not "going for it?"

My next-door neighbor has for kids -- a 9 year old, a soon-to-be six year old, a 4 1/2 year old and an 9 month old. She says she's enjoying the age spread for the simple reason that everyone else is so much more independent that she's really enjoying all the baby aspects. And the bigger kids absolutely adore the baby.

Personally, I think if you and Joe are on the same page, then you should go for it and the rest will work itself out. Of course that's easy for me to say when I don't have to live with the consequences. And I'm obviously projecting my desire for one more baby (which I wonder if I'd continue to feel the desire for no matter how many I had....).

Alyssa, I wanted to comment on the age difference. THis may just offer a different perspective for you, in addition to what Shannon said. I know that here, in America, it's more of a norm to have the kids really close together.... so close that 3 years apart (or 4 in your case) is considered a huge gap. In Russia, it's quite the opposite.

LOTS of my friends have 7-9 year olds and then start thinking about having another... the reasoning they offered- the first one is very independent now and you have help with the baby, for one. Also, a comment I hear quite a bit against having babies 1-2 years apart is a simple fact that it's just too hard on the mother's body. It makes sense, if you think about it- pregnancy takes such a hard toll on the body, you need time to recover, then you are breastfeeding, which is a daunting task for the body, as well, and adding another pregnancy on top of all that without a proper recover period is just exhausting to the system. I agree with that. I know that when we first started talking about TTC and then actually trying, when Nikita was 2ish, my Mom was saying how it's too early, wait till he is 3 or 4, that type of a thing.

I am saying all of this just to offer a different cultural perspective-here things are considered a norm when the babies are out boom-boom-boom in a row (and you are done with diapers in one big swoop, which is an attractive idea, i have to say :lol: ), but there are other ways to think, as well :) So if you feel that you want to go for this 4th baby, 4 years is NOT a big age difference. I think it's perfect, personally!! Nikita will be 3.5 (almost) when this baby is born, and i think it will be great!!

hth....

Alyssa - my neighbor had 2 kids (not quite a gaggle) who were, at the time, 9 and 6. She got pregnant with #3 as a surprise and said the age gap was wonderful.

Even if Josh wasn't fixed, I'd still be saying NO MORE! :lol: A lot of that has to do with what Karri said about feeling stretched too thin as it is, plus I don't think my body could handle another pregnancy. (With Carsten I felt like he was going to fall out on the floor the last 2/3rds of the pregnancy! :eek: )

Anyway, when we were contemplating #3, a lady I worked with told me she'd always regretted not having another baby. And I guess that's what I'm going to say to you (and what finally convinced us to go for it) was that I didn't want regrets like that in my life. I didn't feel emotionally done, and just knew another baby was out there for us. And now, I do feel emotionally and physically done. I'm OK with having no more.

I wouldn't worry too much about the age difference. I'm 5 years and 9 years older than my sisters and we get along great. My mom said she loved it because the older kid went off to kindergarten and she stayed home with the baby. :)

Alyssa, I'm excited by your possibilities, and believe me, I get where you're coming from....I'm utterly exhausted with just these two and no friends and isolated etc, and *still* am contemplating/planning ways of being able to have another....no mean feat here since I'd have to move to another country with the twins for a few months for the birth since they don't do csections here, don't have obstetricians, etc etc. Never mind having twins and anewborn with no support system, no irl friends here etc. Travelling internationally on my own with three.....Sometimes logic has very little to do with our heart's desires.

Anyway, back to you....:lol:
I have to say I get the feeling quite strongly in reading your posts that this is what you want, but you're trying to talk yourself out of it, if that makes sense. Honestly, if you and Joe are on the same page, go for it.

As for thespread, I know quite a few families with a gaggle of 3-in-3 or similar, and then another after a gap, andfor the most part, the mamas are thrilled...the older ones are more independent and helpful, and genuinely interested in a new sibling, and as a result the women find it easier to enjoy the baby days. I think definitely it depends more on the people involved than the number on the calendar ito age gaps and spacing.

And as for your career, is a decent length maternity leave an option? Can you (do you want to?) opt out for 12 months or so, to get settled and into the groove of 4 kids, before resuming the high flying?

:hug99:It's such a tricky decision!

I think that if you have that desire there and he does too, then that really supercedes all logic. I think the regretting not trying would be harder to live with than the alternative.

And it's obvious :awink: that you have that desire there. And that's awesome!

But speaking as a mom sort of in your shoes with the age gap, I have said several times that I wish I'd known that life now with the kids would be fun and manageable, and then I would have given a shot for a 4th baby. We say all the time that B is left out and wish he had a younger sibling (boy or girl). But back then, I couldn't have dealt with that. And (getting to my point), I don't want that big age gap now. Not when the others are so close. I'm happy with life now enough to not want to start over again.

But that's where you seem to feel differently. You want to, even with the difficulties and stress it would add to your life. Because the joy a baby would bring would far outweigh all of that.

so there. :) Go for it!

Wow Alyssa! I have no great advice, but I'm sure you and Joe will make a decision that's best for you. Of course, I only have 2 kids but they are 5 yrs apart and it's great! Brookelyn can help me and she can entertain herself if I have to do something with/for Cohen!

I see what you mean about being stretched thin, but you're a great mom now and I'm sure you and Joe would make it work and be great parents to a 4th!

Alyssa, you have to follow your heart on this one.

I want to comment on the age gap. Sean is a junior in High School and Jakob is in junior k! Next year they will be at the same school, Sean a senior and Jakob in Kindergarten :crazy: I didn't want such a big gap (11 years) but it was that or settle for only one. It has been great for the reasons others have mentioned, but I know Jakob is going to be very sad when Sean leaves for college. The are pretty close.

Good luck with your decision.

I've found my 3rd child to be stretching my limits as a parent! I always thought I'd have 4 but now I think that's unlikely (even if all hell hadn't broken loose in my house a few weeks ago).
If you feel up to the task, go for it! I think people tend to regret the things they didn't do and might have wanted...

Amanda

Alyssa - my neighbor had 2 kids (not quite a gaggle) who were, at the time, 9 and 6. She got pregnant with #3 as a surprise and said the age gap was wonderful.This is my family that I came from and my sister, the #3, hates it. Which is why I had my kids so close together and why I'm wondering that much more how #4 would feel.

I think that if you have that desire there and he does too, then that really supercedes all logic. I think the regretting not trying would be harder to live with than the alternative.

And it's obvious :awink: that you have that desire there. And that's awesome!

But speaking as a mom sort of in your shoes with the age gap, I have said several times that I wish I'd known that life now with the kids would be fun and manageable, and then I would have given a shot for a 4th baby. We say all the time that B is left out and wish he had a younger sibling (boy or girl). But back then, I couldn't have dealt with that. And (getting to my point), I don't want that big age gap now. Not when the others are so close. I'm happy with life now enough to not want to start over again.

But that's where you seem to feel differently. You want to, even with the difficulties and stress it would add to your life. Because the joy a baby would bring would far outweigh all of that.
I bolded the last part but your whole quote really explains how I feel. But I'm really not sure I *do* want to start that over again. Or there wouldn't be this pro/con list. And I'm also afraid if I end up not being happy, I might regret it...and is that not worse than regretting not having the last child?

I do know two women in real life who had three boys and became accidently pregnant with (identical) twin girls. :eek: The random possiblity of twins after already having three is one of those things that make me second guess trying for another...
Well, that a reson that is going on the CON list! :giggle:

I have to say I get the feeling quite strongly in reading your posts that this is what you want, but you're trying to talk yourself out of it, if that makes sense.
That is really exactly it. Since as several of you have noted, the logic says no. But the heart is saying maybe.
And as for your career, is a decent length maternity leave an option? Can you (do you want to?) opt out for 12 months or so, to get settled and into the groove of 4 kids, before resuming the high flying?
Not really an option...not if I want to keep my current job. And while I'd give up my job (career) without question if it was a financial option, it's not - especially if I was to add another chlid into the mix. Unless we wanted to drastically change our entire lifestyle, which I don't...I don't have strong enough baby pangs to choose another child over our current lifestyle. If I did, I would.

And I liked reading about your decisions, Jo. :awink:

I say go for it. The fact that you are even making a pro/con list shows that you really want it. IMO I think you may be looking more for a reason NOT to than to go ahead with it. Your age, the age difference between them all ... does it HONESTLY matter?? I don't think it does. If your heart (and Joe's) say that you desire another then I say go for it!! You will never regret having another child...you may regret not having one though.

I must say that I was quite surprised to see that you started this thread. I remember when Deb was pg with Lucas you were adament against #4. Faker!! :lol:

I do agree with Jo and Melissa.. it does sound like in your heart of hearts, you really want another one and are just trying to see if logic wins. And i wonder if you would regret not having this other baby if decide the CON list is it.....

we could be pregnant together still :awink:
(ok, i know i'm not helping)

Not really an option...not if I want to keep my current job. And while I'd give up my job (career) without question if it was a financial option, it's not - especially if I was to add another chlid into the mix. Unless we wanted to drastically change our entire lifestyle, which I don't...I don't have strong enough baby pangs to choose another child over our current lifestyle. If I did, I would.



For me, this would be huge. I know it may sound selfish, but it's realistic.. In today's economy it's bigger than ever. Now that being said, I'm perfectly happy with my two and I would have been ok with one.

Regarding the age gap. My kids have an 8 year gap. It's just fine. There are times I wish they were in the same bracket but I enjoy it just how it is. I have a wild, energenic 6 yo boy and a terrific but typical teenage 14 yo girl.

I know how you feel Alyssa. If I was younger and my last pregnancy with Nathan was not so hard because of the GD I might be crazy enough to try again. Just last week I mentioned to Ed that although I don't think that I want another the fact that I will never experience those new born moments again kind of makes me sad. I'm sure my feelings are also influenced by the fact that Nathan just turned three and each day becomes more like a little boy. His baby days are almost behind him although we are still working on potty training. Ed's response was "Don't tempt me." Meaning that he would have no problem with another despite our ages. We have done nothing to prevent another baby from happening either. So, call me crazy but if it were to happen again by chance I would be scared but I would welcome it as well.

This is my family that I came from and my sister, the #3, hates it. Which is why I had my kids so close together and why I'm wondering that much more how #4 would feel.
My sisters were 8 and 5 when I was born and I don't have any issues with it. As it turned out, my oldest sister had her kids fairly young, the middle one waited a bit longer, and I had mine fairly young. It just ended up that my life, and the life of my sister who is 5 years older than me kind of lined up. We had our first babies within 3 months of one another, and our second babies within 6 months of one another. You have no way of predicting personalitites, or what decisions they will make down the road. I really feel that age gap is a non-issue because personality and where life will take them are bigger parts of the equation.

I can't remember who first posted it on these boards, but it's stuck with me - You'll only regret the child that you didn't have.

Imagine how hard it would be to get 4 kids to cooperate in a xmas card photo. :lol:

Imagine how hard it would be to get 4 kids to cooperate in a xmas card photo. :lol:

:lol2:

What a hard decision, Alyssa. Personally, I stopped at 2 because I knew that was all I could handle, especially given the fact that I wanted to keep my career. I can't juggle any more than what is currently on my plate. Anish is fixed, and I still have moments where I think that maybe we should have had more, but then Krishan bites Emma because she smacked him, and I have to break up the fight before my conference call starts. :lol: Sure, it would have been wonderful to have a few more of my beautiful offspring :awink: but I knew my limits, mentally and physically.

I totally agree that the only child you regret is the one you didn't have. But sometimes that's not enough. You definitely seem to be liking the idea of another baby, but I also noted that you had absolutely no baby pangs when you were actually holding an infant.

Sorry if I sound like a :raincloud - I don't mean to! I of course would do this if you wind up going for a 4th: :bliss: But just make sure you're truly ready for it!

And I'm also afraid if I end up not being happy, I might regret it...and is that not worse than regretting not having the last child?

But do you really think you'd end up not happy? Can you imagine another baby doing that? With three kids, you have a good idea of what you're getting into... seriously... you know how life is with kids. And yes, each kid is different but you know what to expect.

Here's my reasons for not wanting to start over again:
*a baby is a pain to carry around and drag to all the older kids' activities.
*it's harder to find a trusted sitter/childcare for a newborn.
*it'd be years again before we could do "big kid" stuff as a family.
*I like the self-reliance of my kids now.
*I like the freedom I have when they are in school and how that gives me the opportunity to work again.

BUT... talk to Deb (which I'm sure you have) or anyone else who has had a surprise baby (or even a planned later one) and you'll get a completely opposite list of how freaking wonderful life has been since that baby came along.

I just think that if you're considering it, you know it's worth trying.

But do you really think you'd end up not happy? Can you imagine another baby doing that?

I think that its a possibility :dunno: Maybe "not happy" isnt' the right way to phrase it, but I do think it happens often.

Wow, you kill me :lol:

I think you've got to go w/your gut, but I know my limits and 3 is it. I love my boys to death and would love another boy, or even a girl :) but, I also know that I don't like when I have to yell over the chaos that is my house, so this is it for us. Yes, I long for a daughter to go prom dress or wedding dress shopping w/, but you know what? There will be other moments that I will only get w/my boys, like the Mother/Son dance at their weddings, that I will hopefully get to do three times and I will cherish moments like that and not think about the "what if's" because life is full of those and I can't live my life like that. I have to live in the here and now and cherish those moments :)

Sorry, if that sounds preachy, btw :heee:

Frank and I have been having the same talks about us having #3, there would be a 5 1/2 year difference between Mason and the baby. I had 2 really difficult babies who didn't sleep and made me crazy, and our marriage has not been the same since day 1. I can think of a million reasons not to have another baby-but I still want one.

I just know that 20 years from now when my kids come home for Thanksgiving, I'm going to look aroundcthe table and *know* someone is missing. I will be so mad at myself for not sucking it up and giving up another 5 years of my life in order to have this amazing person in our lives forEVER. I know it's going to be hard and I know it's going to be crazy and difficult, but for me, I know the sacrifice is small compared to how amazing the life long rewards will be.

(someone promise to remind me of this post a year or two from now when I'm ready to sell my three kids on the black market???)

Kristen! We could all be pg together!! :grouphugg

:woot:

I just typed out the longest post responding to this but then hated how it all sounded so deleted it.

I am going to try and condense it because my last post was too epic.

In response to Cami, yes, life is flippin wonderful, I love my boys more than anything on this planet and I can't even remember what life was like before Lucas got here and I don't want to imagine life with out him, he is just an amazing little man and he brightens every single minute of my day. :heart: but in saying that life with 4 kids is pretty major and having a 4th was a massive impact on our lives. The decision was taken away from me and therefore I have to deal with that impact, I don't know how I would feel on those bad days when I am huddled in my room crying from feeling overwhelmed by it all if I would deal with it as well knowing I had willingly gone into this situation. Not that I am saying that is happening all the time because overall life is wonderful but it is hard work and I am not going to lie and pretend it's all puppy dogs and lollypops. I am a SAHM (with an at home business) and it is a major challenge, can not imagine doing it with having a fulltime career at the same time.


Alyssa, I know that you have had these thoughts and feelings as we have discussed them already and I know that when it comes down to it you will end up doing what feels right for you, I don't think you can ever get a guarantee so no matter what decision you make it's going to be an impact on you.

I would give anything to have a girl (I know this isn't your motivation but just using this as an example) I really do yearn for that mother/daughter relationship and when I see other mothers with their girls I admit to having some minor pangs of jealousy, in saying all that my desire for a girl no matter how strong does not overtake the practicality of the fact that I can not do 5 children! I have let my head override my heart, it was the only way I could actually go through with getting my tubes tied because I knew if I didn't do something perminant I would be having that 5th child. Craziness, huh!?

Also one more thing you might want to look at with your list and that is how your decision effects others. If you do have another baby, who will look after him/her overnight while you are travelling for work and Joe is doing his shifts? Would your parents be able to handle 4 children to care for everytime you go away? If the answer is yes then that goes in your pros, if the answer is no then it's a con and should be considered.

I love being a mum of 4 boys, it really is rewarding and wonderful but hard work, I can't even begin to imagine doing what I have to do AND have a fulltime career (which includes travel) to deal with on top of everything else. I also worry about being able to give them all enough of me and hope I am not screwing them up for life but I do the best I can and give them my all (doesn't leave much time for me but well you get that) they deserve to have equal attention and I do manage to give it to them, it's just definitely at my expense. I also worry about how I am going to juggle the whole sports/school/parties and so on when they are all older there is only Tony and I and to get them all around is going to be a major scheduling accomplishment, that is for sure :lol:

Anyway, I am sure no matter what you will do what is right for you and know that you have our support either way.

Good luck!

I wanted to add something.
Part of me does regret having Zachary. He's my child and I love him with all my heart. I had a stressful pregnancy and he has been an extremely difficult baby. Since he was born I feel completely trapped by him. The older 2 were just starting to get easy before he came along. I never thought the 3rd child could be so difficult. All summer I felt excluded from any fun because I was "stuck" with Zachary. It was awful. And it probably directly or indirectly led to the issues I'm having with my marriage.
He's starting to get a bit easier now but I'd be lying if I didn't say that I sometimes wonder if we should have stopped at 2.

Amanda

I am about as sure that I am done as possible, and there are still times I think about another (but I would NEVER admit that to Stagg!). But it is the fantasy of more that I want, not the reality. Especially when I see movies with 4 or 5 adult children, I want that. I want grown up kids to come home and be loud and noisy and fun and everybody's best friend.

But I can't get there. I know that I am a better parent to 2 than I would be to 3. A third child at this point would make things so much harder. And while harder isn't bad, "harder" is still a consideration.

My neighbor has an 8yo, a 6yo and a 1.5yo. While they love the baby, he has really made things harder. Their marriage suffered terribly for a long time, their finances are stretched, and he changes everything logistically. There are so many little things I take for granted having my kids be a little older-- I can go get the mail or take a shower while they are playing, I can unload the dishwasher while they are having a snack. The list goes on. And while it is a selfish list, remembering that I am allowed to think of myself has taken a while to get to, and I'm not willing to give that up again for another baby.

Ohhhh how I'm laughing. Can we search for all the posts where Alyssa stresses she will not ever have #4 :giggle:

I'm not in any of your shoes (yet.....), but reading these posts makes me so happy that we have the capability to choose how many kids we want in our respective families. :) I really feel for those women who have baby after baby because they're too poor....or the government won't allow birth control (I just watched a doc on street kids in Romania)....and they just can't do it.

Sorry....didn't mean to sidetrack.....just felt compelled. :)

I am one of four kids, as you probably know. I am also the only girl. There is also quite a spread. We are 33, 30, 28, and 21. My mom was 39, almost 40, when the youngest of us was born. My youngest brother has Asperger's syndrome, but that has nothing to do with my mom's age when she had him.

Growing up, I hated being the only girl. The boys would gang up on me, and I longed for a sister. When my mom was pregnant with #4, I cried the day I found out she was having another boy. For the record, I was 8.

That said, I love my youngest brother to pieces. He is by far the sibling to whom I am closest, although that is probably more of a personality thing than anything else. My middle brother and older brother are 4.25 years apart and are inseparable. We were all really helpful with my baby brother, and I know my parents loved that. The older two of us changed his diapers (a fact I still love to torment him with), gave him bottles, etc. Sure I had my jealous moments, but for the most part we were all old enough to understand that he needed mom more than we did sometimes. We were in first, third, and sixth grade, so we were in school all day and I'm sure that helped.

Also, now that I'm older, I like being the only girl. My mom and I are very close, and I don't think we'd be as close if I had a sister. Can't be sure. But I rarely wore hand-me-downs, my parents only had one wedding to pay for, I never had to share my room, etc.

I get pangs on occasion to have #3 (which I think is crazy because Sean is so young), but it's more of a fantasy than anything else. The reality is I don't enjoy pregnancy, I don't really like the newborn phase very much, and the idea that I could very well end up with another child on the autism spectrum scares the crap out of me. I suppose if I could guarantee it would be all roses - easy pregnancy and birth, easy baby, etc. - I'd have a third.

It's your decision, obviously. But I'm just saying I adore being one of four kids. I can't imagine life without my youngest brother and neither can my parents.

I wanted to add something.
Part of me does regret having Zachary. He's my child and I love him with all my heart. I had a stressful pregnancy and he has been an extremely difficult baby. Since he was born I feel completely trapped by him. The older 2 were just starting to get easy before he came along. I never thought the 3rd child could be so difficult. All summer I felt excluded from any fun because I was "stuck" with Zachary. It was awful. And it probably directly or indirectly led to the issues I'm having with my marriage.
He's starting to get a bit easier now but I'd be lying if I didn't say that I sometimes wonder if we should have stopped at 2.

Amanda

In Amanda's spirit of honesty, I'll confess that Ive regretted both my kids, separately and as a unit, more times than I can even count. It's not pretty, and I never didn't love them both to death, but they have sucked the life out of me these last 7 years. Maybe I'm more human than I care to be, and it's an ugly feeling that comes wrapped up in all sorts of guilt. But maybe because I have felt that way so much, I have had plenty of time to mull over it and come to terms. The bottom line is that even when I'm wishing I was single and childless, I'd be out there trying to find exactly what I have right now. And that no matter how often I feel like u regret having these kids or strong that feels, it will never be as strong as how much I love them. And over time, that feeling has come fewer and farther in between-as they grow and change it really does get easier! It really does! Even though life is technically getting crazier, I'm getting happier, and really realizing the temporary nature of these insane first five years.

I don't know if anyone else listens to country music, but there has been this Trace Atkins song out this year that I Constantly have in my head, about a woman who goes through everything we are going through and is just trying to get to the next phase, including the time when her children are young and out of control and taxing her, and he says this: you're gonna miss this. You're gonna want this back. You're gonna wish these days hadn't gone by so fast. These are some good times, so take a good look around-you may not know it now, but you're gonna miss this...

I don't want to get 10, 20... Even only 5 years down the road and realize I want this chance back, but it's too late. And this is me, all me, just sharing my thought process out loud, I know everyone feels differently. Just a good case of how gray it really is, I have had the worst thoughts about motherhood buy am so determined not to give up on what could be.

Can I just say that I really admire all of you who have/are going to have/are thinking of having more than 2 kids? :)
Personally, I would LOVE to have a daughter, and Brad is always bugging me about trying for a little girl. If I could be 100% gauranteed that I would have a girl, I would probably do it...and sooner rather than later, but that's not going to happen :lol:
Realistically, our chances of having a girl are slim & I did not really enjoy being pg - I had some complications with the boys & I was SO uncomfortable & SICK all of the time. Besides that, we're already a single-income family & I am really wanting to go back to work/school to get myself a career. I know, this all sounds selfish, but in my defense I'd also really like to adopt. When I was younger I was told that I would never be able to have children & I have been blessed with my 2 boys & I wouldn't change that for the world. That being said, I know that there are thousands of children right here in Ontario that are in need of loving homes & I feel as though our family is meant to go down that path. Maybe not now, but in the future.

Sorry to post such impertenant info, Alyssa...I know my post is of no help :blush: but I do commend you for taking on such a decision & I hope you can find the right answer for you :)

What all you ladies have shared is wonderful to read. Because it makes me feel more "normal" for having twangs of wanting another (marriage issues aside). And not wanting to hijack Alyssa's thread, but I've often have thoughts of wanting another but knowing for every reason in the book that I should be done. My head says no more but my heart says one more. :sigh:

I think Alyssa should do it just to have another baby name thread. :lol:

How did I miss this? I haven't read any but your initial post, Alyssa... I think you know that I've been sitting on this fence for some time. I am older than you are, and pretty much on the no side of the fence, though think about it a LOT... I strongly believe you won't regret having another child (you, the univeral "you", not just singling you out.) My selfish reason for most likely not having another is that I am FINALLY exercising regularly and thin again! :lol: It was so easy after Caroline and Courtney, but took me forever after Tatum (3 years!). My other reasons are the full time nanny expense. I can see a light at the end of that tunnel and that is a huge amount of $$. Also, Tatum is a nightmare!! I adore her and she was a great baby, but that kid is not stop action, and I don't know that I can do it again. :lol: But, the idea of having another one often trumps all of that in my head.

I'm no help at all, because I'm just as indecisive. :lol:

Two things here. :) (But before that, I've love to be pg w/ you too!)

Did you talk to/hear from anyone who had a group of kids (a gaggle :giggle: ) and then one more? Because I can't have 5. No, no, no! (Shit, I'll have twins after all of this...) I'm more worried about that than the age spread. KWIM?

And then...another con related to your point #2. If I do have this baby and something is wrong with it, I think I won't forgive myself for that....for waivering and going for it, and then to have something go really wrong. I know that sounds awful, I do. But it's the truth. (Is there a "hanging you head in shame" smilie? )

Twins would be a nightmare.

As for your other point... don't hang your head in shame, this is EXACTLY how I feel, and I have to think it's a very normal way to feel.

Sorry for the serial posting, but addressing the age gap, in many ways, I think that would be good. My 3 are so close in age that it was hard to really enjoy their babyhood and relax. I feel like with a 4 year gap, it would be a lot easier than having a 3 year old, 1 1/2 year old and newborn. You'd really only be hauling around stuff for the baby. The other kids are all toilet trained, walking, talking, eating real food, can get in their car seats, etc. I always felt like I was going to lose a kid when I had the 3 age 3 and under.

For me, I think the stress on my marriage would probably be the biggest deal breaker. I feel like I could handle 4, financially we could make it happen, time wise it would be a stretch because I don't have enough time as it is, but I might be able to cut some hours for a while at work... but I don't think Lee could handle it. Things are SO much easier now with them being 6, almost 5 and 3... I can take them out and do things with them and it's starting to be a lot of fun... it's still hard, but SO much easier and I see this time period ahead of doing a lot of fun things with the 3 of them... going to the movies, going to the beach without anyone eating sand or running away into the surf (Tatum), going to the zoo, Disney, etc. I think we could add a baby to that, but it would also add stress. I feel like it would be worth the stress, but I know that Lee does not share that feeling, so that would cause stress on our marriage. I'm rambling.

Also, I'm committed to sending them all to college. Adding a 4th means I'll be working well into my 60s!

... there has been this Trace Atkins song out this year that I constantly have in my head, about a woman who goes through everything we are going through and is just trying to get to the next phase, including the time when her children are young and out of control and taxing her, and he says this: you're gonna miss this. You're gonna want this back. You're gonna wish these days hadn't gone by so fast. These are some good times, so take a good look around-you may not know it now, but you're gonna miss this...

Funny how different people interpret that differently. I read it and think that instead of wishing time away, wishing that they'd just get through this phase, wishing that it would get easier, etc, enjoy what you have. Live in the here & now and appreciate what you have with those you have. :dunno:

Alyssa,

Just to throw some more irrelevant info out. My brother and SIL had two boys and finally decided to try one more time for a girl and ended up with twin girls. The boys were 6 and 4 when the girls were born. Just another example of how you never know what can happen.

Dennis

In Amanda's spirit of honesty, I'll confess that Ive regretted both my kids, separately and as a unit, more times than I can even count. It's not pretty, and I never didn't love them both to death, but they have sucked the life out of me these last 7 years. Maybe I'm more human than I care to be, and it's an ugly feeling that comes wrapped up in all sorts of guilt. But maybe because I have felt that way so much, I have had plenty of time to mull over it and come to terms. The bottom line is that even when I'm wishing I was single and childless, I'd be out there trying to find exactly what I have right now. And that no matter how often I feel like u regret having these kids or strong that feels, it will never be as strong as how much I love them. And over time, that feeling has come fewer and farther in between-as they grow and change it really does get easier! It really does! Even though life is technically getting crazier, I'm getting happier, and really realizing the temporary nature of these insane first five years.

I don't know if anyone else listens to country music, but there has been this Trace Atkins song out this year that I Constantly have in my head, about a woman who goes through everything we are going through and is just trying to get to the next phase, including the time when her children are young and out of control and taxing her, and he says this: you're gonna miss this. You're gonna want this back. You're gonna wish these days hadn't gone by so fast. These are some good times, so take a good look around-you may not know it now, but you're gonna miss this...

I don't want to get 10, 20... Even only 5 years down the road and realize I want this chance back, but it's too late. And this is me, all me, just sharing my thought process out loud, I know everyone feels differently. Just a good case of how gray it really is, I have had the worst thoughts about motherhood buy am so determined not to give up on what could be.

OT but you are so inside my head. I have often felt the same way. I know that song and it's a great reminder. Thanks.

I think that raising children is difficult no matter what age, I am not going to sit here and say "only a few more years then it will get easier" because it won't, it just gets different. I was a shitter of a teenager and my sister is a difficult adult that is putting constant pressure on my parents and they are constantly dealing with her emotional baggage and her constant financial problems and had to take her in at 30 and help her out cause she couldn't do it on her own. Parenting never stops and this isn't just directed at Kristen but in general too, I just wanted to say that if you have gone through some really rough patches to the point where you are wishing you were single and childless (not that I think you would ever actually want to go through with it) but to be pushed to that point, I wonder what makes it seem it's going to get better with adding another to the mix? I think we can't look at these "ideals" we have in our minds of how things are supposed to be but take what we have and see if we can work with that, we don't want to push ourselves to the point where we are unable to be there for our children because an unhappy mother is a mother than can not 100% provide for her children and we all love them too much to have that happen. Just my 2 cents.

Wow. This thread's given me so much to think about it. And please, all, "hijack" away. I love hearing everyone's experiences, thoughts, etc.

I am still undecided...and have yet to make my appt to have my IUD checked/removed. I actually got promoted today (shhh - not totally out but I think this is a pretty safe place to report it :) ) so there is even more "career" stuff to think about. And I've found myself reading this nodding about all the reasons to NOT have another...but then someone just says how it's such an emotional decision and I change my mind again.

Honestly, I'm back to thinking no. I would be giddy with excitement about being pg. But I don't think it's really right for my family. Ok, and as I was typing that sentence I changed my mind again. Shel is so right....pull up all my denials and poke fun at me! :screwy:

It's these crazy things called emotions, Alyssa! :giggle:

This is a very tough decision Alyssa, and I do not envy you at all!! I know for us with our indecision on having #3 and #4, we just left it up to God. I remember telling people that if I ever had a fourth, I'd have to be committed.:giggle: Well, she's here and 14 months old, and I feel more happy and sane now than I did with two kids!! I LOVE having four kids, but that is me and my lifestyle.

All I can think to offer is that perhaps you can have your IUD removed, be OTL for say 6 months to a year, and if nothing by then, be done. Leave it up to God/fate.

I wish you the very best of luck in making this decision and know that you will be blessed either way.

~ Melissa

(I tried to reply to this right away yesterday, and my iphone totally crapped out on me :lol: )

Funny how different people interpret that differently. I read it and think that instead of wishing time away, wishing that they'd just get through this phase, wishing that it would get easier, etc, enjoy what you have. Live in the here & now and appreciate what you have with those you have. :dunno:

Yes, yes I agree that this is exactly what the whole song is about (the other verses too, which are about high school angst and rushing to buy a house and start a family). ITA! :nod: But for me that line that sticks to my gutt is the "you're gonna want this back" part-its what I find myself repeating to myself when I get stressed, and I have found it's truly impacted my perspective, just that one little line from a song. One day I'm not going to remember all of the burdens that motherhood has held and I'm just going to long for when my babies are little, and I know it's true because I've already start to feel my heart ache a little for how precious Zack was when he was 2 (holy crap, I'm tearing up at my desk writing this :loser: ). And to the topic at hand, this feeling speaks to me that the crappy parts of early child raising are not the parts that are going to stay in my heart. And I'm willing to take the crappy parts to have the amazing parts in my heart forever.

I guess I didn't get into this in previous posts, but I'll clarify that for me, there is a difference between the first 2 children and the 3rd at a later time. Not just the logistical changes, like the older kids being more self sufficient than 2yo Zack was when Mason was born, but the changes in me. The difference is my perpsective, and that might be as important or moreso than any other factor. I'm more confident now than I was before. My eyes are wide open. You're right Deb, in general life I am guilty of idealism in everything I consider, always have been. Except now, for parenting. Fortunately or unfortunately, depending on how you look at it, :lol: I have had terrible times. My kids have tried me in every way I can imagine, they burst every bubble of the idealistic child I ever had. Zack was a mess and I thought Mason would be my easy baby because "it couldn't get worse..." HA! Right! :lol: Mason was a disaster. So, I'm at the point where I expect the crap-bring it on. Baby #3 will probably turn out to be the same amount of work and heart ache as the first two or slightly more (where having 2 helpers will make it easier I'm sure it will be balanced out by trying to maintain their crazy school boy schedules while sleep deprived with a baby in tow... it will probably even out for the most part). Except the love will be greater, because it will be times all three of my kids.

Having had rough patches doesn't mean I will be unable to properly care for and fully love another child. For some that might be true, it will be different for each person who considered themselves to have had a rough time parenting. In the end it depends on how you evolve through it. If wishing and longing for the single life meant you shouldn't have any more kids, I wonder how many 2nd and 3rd kids we'd have on this board :giggle: (we could definitely count out Mason :lol: )

For me, life is definitely getting crazier-their schedules are packed, we've got 2 diseases to contend with, Frank is still in college (he didn't start till Mason was 6mo, so he wasn't gone in the evenings when M was a newborn)... and it's only going to get crazier. And believe me, I know my share of problem child adults :giggle: (My smil's brother is a terrible, even criminal problem child, and he's pushing 70!) It doesn't end, it NEVER ends... but it does change. I guess whether or not its easier depends on you and the hurdles that end up in front of you. Some of it you can anticipate and some of it you can't (don't I know). For me, right now having 2 kids with medical issues that can make life a 3-ring-circus (though not life-threatening thank God) that are age 4 and 6 is WAAAY easier than having perfectly healthy 1 and 3 year olds. They still challenge me, but it's different. I think during each phase of infancy and toddlerhood it just felt like "it's never going to end," but now I have a better understanding of how it does end, it evolves into a new phase, which for the most part each phase has been better than the one before. Some phases will be worse, for sure. But my perspective is better, way better.

(I will also add that I'm blessed to have my mom for childcare, even though she's getting older she'll be able to handle a newborn with the other 2 in full time school, so for the most part aside from a lean maternity leave, copays and preschool, I don't have many financial/childcare burdens to consider. That makes a huge difference for me, and I realize that for many is a much more significant deciding factor than the emotional stuff I tend to concentrate on.)

So relating to this topic, all of this mumbo jumbo make me feel like I can do it for the right reasons. Like I'm not just lusting after that soft warm lump of baby that burrows into your chest when they're new, that gummy grin with one teeny tooth bud, that pudgy hand that wraps around your thumb when they're trying to walk, the lump in my throat when they strap on that smallish backpack and walk ahead of you into the preschool for the first time... and blind to the reality of life with a baby. My eyes are wide open to the all the pain in the ass crap that comes with it, and I STILL want it. :biggrin: I guess when that's how you feel about it, that's when you know you really want another baby.

I have been in similar shoes as yours for several years Alyssa, just with trying to decide about #2 instead of #4! I'll share my thoughts in case it helps you out.

I kept thinking we would try for #2 when we bought a house... then we bought a house near the top of the market and I realized we were stretching to afford the mortgage, nevermind another kid in daycare. Then Maggie was diagnosed with a peanut allergy, which really limited further childcare options, and complicated life in general.

I still think about having another child, and I especially did when Maggie started school this fall. I figured they would be far apart in age, but it would be a similar age gap to a 1st and 3rd child. I took a hard look at our life, the fact that I go into work early in the morning and really only get to see Maggie for about 2 hours/day on a school day how stressed I am some days, and the fact that when I'm on call I sometimes don't see her at all. I came to the conclusion I was probably better off devoting myself and my sanity to taking care of myself, my marriage and Maggie rather than adding another child to the mix and stretching myself further.

Our financial situation has improved but with the economy the way it is now, there is always a possibility of us becoming a one-income household and that's a scary concept. I get melancholy thinking about Maggie as an only child and the Thanksgiving table 20 years from now with just us around it. But I also truly believe another child would stretch my patience to its absolute limit.

Everyone has their own reasons behind the size of their families. I hope you find peace in your ultimate decision.

(I will also add that I'm blessed to have my mom for childcare, even though she's getting older she'll be able to handle a newborn with the other 2 in full time school, so for the most part aside from a lean maternity leave, copays and preschool, I don't have many financial/childcare burdens to consider. That makes a huge difference for me, and I realize that for many is a much more significant deciding factor than the emotional stuff I tend to concentrate on.)


This may now be going totally off topic but this actually brings up an interesting point.

Obviously your mother is totally fine with caring for your children and yes, you are very lucky to have that, I know it's a rare thing. I have to wonder though, when considering having more children should the impact on others lives (like your mothers) be considered. My cousin has her mother as her daycare provider too, I speak to my Aunt on a regular basis and although she loves her grandkids to death she feels trapped by them, she has retired from work and says she feels like she is a young mother again and has gone in and out of depression. She can't stop caring for her grandkids cause then her daughter will financially go under having to pay for childcare. I have expressed to her many times that it's a scary situation because what if she was to drop dead all of a sudden, her daughter would have to figure out what to do about childcare (and that is something her daugther should consider as a possibility too) so maybe she should split it up and do some daycare days and some days with herself so she doesn't feel so overwhelmed by it all. Of course, being the "mother" she is she can't do that to her daughter and will continue on with it. The truly sad part is I know her daughter is wanting to have another baby in a few years time (she has 2 now) and this means her mother will continue in this situation.

Anyway, I guess this all comes down to every persons personal situation and what is right for one person is not for another and therefore we can only truly know in ourselves what is right or wrong.

Deb, you're absolutely right. I didn't mention that earlier (cuz seriously, could my posts get any freakin longer? :slap: ) but my mom does play a big role in our decision, and is definitely one of the factors why we will have put off #3's arrival until Z&M are both in full-day elementary school. She'll be retired by then so she'll be home 7dys/wk (she works 3 days now, and babysits 2 of her 4 off days). They'll both come home on the bus and my mom will only have the whole brood of them for 2-2 1/2 hours, 2 days a week. (she continues to remind me that her insurances and annuities and the value of her house would enable me to stay home for #3 after all of her expenses, but I cannot even begin to entertain the possibility of a thought about that happening, for obvious reasons!!!!) Again, lucky lucky!!!!

That definitely figures into our decision to not have #4, too :nod: My parents help us out A LOT, as does my stepMIL and the 3 boys are a bit much for them sometimes, so I know that 4 would be over their limits. That, and the fact that I can not wait to only have 1 child in daycare next year, because those costs are killing me!!!

I just had to tell you guys, I got home from work today and was telling my mom about this discussion and how our decisions to have additional children effect other people, and I also mentioned the situation with Deb's friend... and then I asked her, what do you think?

She made her arms into a cradle and started singing "Rockabye Baby," and then shot both hands up on the air and said, "Twins!" :lol: I guess we know how she feels! :lol:

(twins my ass, mom...)

Never say never.... :lol:

Alyssa, I have been considering #4 too. I am also getting older, and would prefer to do it sooner rather than later (well, to at least have a plan). I love the relationship that K & K have, and I would love for N to have a sibling that close in age, too.

Here are a few of my thoughts:


Being pg with my sister (we've done it twice) was great. Since we both had 10 year gaps with these last pregnancies, it was even more special.
Having cousins close in age is great...If you live close to each other, it almost makes up for his/her siblings being older.
Getting pg when you are finally skinny/working out/eating right is better than the alternative (when you are already heavy or out of shape...believe me, I know!) I dare say the best time to get pg is when you are fit.
A four year age gap is not that significant. My BFF and her sisters are all 7 years apart, and they have always been thick as thieves. I am also 4.5 years older than my youngest sister, and I'd like to think that we are close, too.
I understand your concerns about your age, childcare, and money. I share those same concerns.

One day I'm not going to remember all of the burdens that motherhood has held and I'm just going to long for when my babies are little, and I know it's true because I've already start to feel my heart ache a little for how precious Zack was when he was 2 (holy crap, I'm tearing up at my desk writing this :loser: ). And to the topic at hand, this feeling speaks to me that the crappy parts of early child raising are not the parts that are going to stay in my heart. And I'm willing to take the crappy parts to have the amazing parts in my heart forever.



I can attest to this 100%. It's almost like childbirth...At first you wonder how anyone does that more than once, and then you forget? Well, kind of anyway.

I look back at pictures of K & K when they were 1 and 3 or 2 and 4 or 6 and 8, and my eyes well up with tears. Where does the time go? I miss my babies. I miss that life.

That being said, I often say that Nasir is my most challenging baby. I say that I NEVER remember K and K doing this or that. My mom reminded me this weekend, though. She asked, "Are you nuts? You said the same thing with the other two...you felt overwhelmed then, too." I guess I don't remember...when time passes, what stands out is the good times, and not the struggles.

Especially when I see movies with 4 or 5 adult children, I want that. I want grown up kids to come home and be loud and noisy and fun and everybody's best friend.

I feel this way, too. And then I start to worry that one of them may not be here ten years from now, and I have a huge pain in my heart. I am ashamed to admit it, but part of my desire is fueled by fear. :sigh:

I love the idea of a house full of children. Always have, since I was a little girl. I do worry about stretching myself too thin (especially given Kareem's illness), but I think I can handle it. Also, in this regard, I believe the age gap works a bit in my favor. The older two aren't needy in the same way that an infant/toddler is...it's not the same juggling act as someone with four children close in age.

Having a new baby after 11 years has been overwhelming, exciting, frustrating, energizing, and fun (so far)...Yet, I am still on the fence about number four...

I feel this way, too. And then I start to worry that one of them may not be here ten years from now, and I have a huge pain in my heart. I am ashamed to admit it, but part of my desire is fueled by fear. :sigh:

:hug99: <-- That was a super extra tight bear hug. :heee:

When we were standing around my sister in the hospital and it was sinking in that there really wasn't any hope of recovery, my other sister and I had polar opposite reactions. I thought "I NEED to have another kid in case this happens to one of my kids one day" whereas her reaction was that having another child would just be another chance for something to go wrong.

We also had one reaction that was exactly the same. We looked at one another and thought "Thank God for you." I would be so completely and totally lost if I didn't still have her. What if my parents had stopped at two and she was without me? I don't think I can fully express how grateful I am that my parents had three kids.

I was also a little taken aback at Eric's mom's reaction. Obviously, I knew she would be upset, but it suprised me just how upset she was. Then my mom pointed out that Eric's mom would be thinking about what if it were them. Eric is their only. What if they lost their only child?

Anyway... I'm not saying that people should plan their families as though they are expecting one of their kids to die one day. It's just that once that has been part of your life it does affect your thoughts and feelings on the subject. It certainly affected mine.

Note to self: stop reading this thread in public. The other Dunkin Donuts customers are starting to stare... :bawl: :bawl: :bawl:

:hug99: to both Kika and Sarah.

I always feel so sad for Caroline Kennedy for this reason. Granted she's part of a close extended family, but to have already lost both parents and her brother...

Huge :hug99: for you, Kika and Sarah, :hug99:

My fear of losing David is part of what keeps me trying for #2. Ideally I would love to have 3 or 4 kids...but that doesn't seem to be the case for us.

The "fear" reason is also why I haven't (and likely won't) have Joe get the V. :(

There will be other moments that I will only get w/my boys, like the Mother/Son dance at their weddings, that I will hopefully get to do three times and I will cherish moments like that and not think about the "what if's" because life is full of those and I can't live my life like that. I have to live in the here and now and cherish those moments :)


I definitely think that sons have a special relationship with their Mom's. :nod:

Wow Alyssa! :lol: It's funny, I saw the title on the front page "My pro/con list", and immediately thought of you (and your baby name lists ;) ), but then looked at what sub-forum it was in...nah, it can't be Alyssa! :lol:

I think it's great that you're considering it, and like others, it sounds like it's something that you want, but are trying to talk yourself out of it. Is Joe just so-so to the idea, or does he waiver one way or the other? And, you mention #4 being a larger age stretch than the others...maybe that wouldn't be a bad thing? They might end up closer to Mom & Dad.

I know my situation is, oh, *completely* different than yours, but if circumstances were different, I'd love to have another. Maybe. :shuffle:

Anyway... I'm not saying that people should plan their families as though they are expecting one of their kids to die one day. It's just that once that has been part of your life it does affect your thoughts and feelings on the subject. It certainly affected mine.

This affects my feelings about having more than 2 children. In '99 some family friends of ours lost their 21 yr old son (him and his sister were/are 2 of my closest friends). His sister of course was heartbroken that she'd lost her brother.. but her only brother. Almost 10 years later it still pains her that she now has no siblings. Her children will never have an aunt or uncle on her side of the family or any cousins.

That has always affected the way I think. I hate to plan my family 'in case' something happens to one of our children, but it's just something I can't get out of my head.

That said.. I think we're done at 2. We're both content, but probably won't make any big decisions (like about a 'V') until Cohen is a bit older at least. Part of me really really wants to have another child, but things seem so much easier with 2! I'm just sooo afraid of looking back 10 years from now and really regretting not having another child.

I do not regret my decision to have a third child at all. While we were not "trying" for her per say she was a very welcomed surprise. I also have not found it at all difficult having 3. If anything my boys drive me MUCH more crazy than she does. She is a little angel. That said we will not have anymore children. I always wanted 3 and no more. We are now complete and i had my tubes tied during my c-section.

I am sure this is a very hard decision to make. DH and I went back and forth for at least 2 years before I actually got pregnant.

I think the danger of *what may* happen - especially in relation to losing a child - can make everything so difficult as well. As someone who has lost a baby - though granted, we didn't get to know Atticus *face to face* as it were, can I try and offer a little of my perspective? From a parental point of view, having other children doesn't negate the deep searing pain of your child dying. And that doesn't change. Ever. But (and it's a big but!!) it does alter your reality...certainly, your kids aren't replacements for each other ( and I know nobody on here is suggesting they are) but certainly they are a focal point, and losing that focal point altogether, is different to losing one of them....each child is phenomenal, the centre of your universe and your heart, and I truly believe that remains the case whether you have 1 or many.

From a sibling perspective, I am very fortunat to have all my siblings alive and well, but given our situation I have to say I'm closer to my BFF than any of my siblings...and technically I'm one of 7! Philippa and I joke that we're sisters bonded by thread rather than blood, but I don't honestly know anyone I feel as sisterly and intune with as her. Not being best bosom buddies with my siblings is definitely more because of the situation when I was growing up though (2 kids, divorce, Aaron with dad, me with mum, we moved halfway around the world when I was 4, mum remarried, another baby (I was 8), then twins (10), meanwhile dad remarries, another 2 girls, we return to Nz when I'm 16, you get the picture?) and my siblings and I all get on fine, but we're all very different people in very different stages of our life, so there isn't that click. That's not to say I wouldn't go to the ends of the earth for them, just that we don't have that *idealised* sibling relationship. That said, I am probably closer to my twin sisters (a decade younger than myself) than I am to my brother who is 2 years my senior, so the theory of age difference probably makes a bigger impact whilst they're little than once they grow up. (though I'm still waiting for Ali and Mikki to grow up:lol:, I fear I may be waiting quite some time yet!) We are not a *Brothers and Sisters* episode, though I have to confess to harbouring longings to have that sort of setup myself when our kids are grown up....you know, without the philandering dead husband/father and myriad love children.:lol:
Anyway, where was I:lol:....so I think if you don't have that bond in a sibling, you find it elsewhere, but then again, I don't know any different, so maybe that also plays a part.

I have been rambling for so long I have forgotten what I was trying to say!
Oh wait, here it is. Don't let the fear of what might happen override your other emotions, or at least, don't let it be the deciding factor. Because shit, and downright awful things happen. And dammit, wouldn't you be furious if you settled for *good enough* and missed out on 20 years/6 months/2 minutes of fabulous because you were scared of what might be. Atticus dying is easily the most awful thing I have been through, but god forbid anyone trying to wish him away - he was and is the most amazing gift to me and many others, and with all the heartbreak that comes with that, is the extraordinary love and joy and compassion that he brought too.

Ask your heart. Ask Joe to ask his. Then take a random online sanity test and go with what's right for you!!!!

(secretly I was just trying to post a longer reply than Kristen!:lol: )

:bowdown: Well done!

Wow Alyssa! :lol: It's funny, I saw the title on the front page "My pro/con list", and immediately thought of you (and your baby name lists ;) ), but then looked at what sub-forum it was in...nah, it can't be Alyssa! :lol:

I think it's great that you're considering it, and like others, it sounds like it's something that you want, but are trying to talk yourself out of it. Is Joe just so-so to the idea, or does he waiver one way or the other? And, you mention #4 being a larger age stretch than the others...maybe that wouldn't be a bad thing? They might end up closer to Mom & Dad.

I know my situation is, oh, *completely* different than yours, but if circumstances were different, I'd love to have another. Maybe. :shuffle:

I know, I like to keep people entertained/poking fun at me. :heee:

Joe and I need to really talk it out. If he was totally sold on #4, I would go for it. I'm still totally on the fence, really leaning no. But that's with my head, not my heart.

And yeah, your situation is different...but I would literally jump up and down (and take a video for you :awink: ) if you told me you were pg again. :heee:

Re: following your head vs following your heart. I don't think that there is one better path than the other. For some people, its better to listen to a mix of both, for some its better to listen to one over the other. I think it just depends on your individual situation.

Re: following your head vs following your heart. I don't think that there is one better path than the other. For some people, its better to listen to a mix of both, for some its better to listen to one over the other. I think it just depends on your individual situation.


Very good point!



No one can ever know what the future holds. Sadly there have been cases where entire families have been wiped out by a tragedy and one sole remaining survivor is left to deal with the grief of losing everyone, no matter how many children the parents had, there can still be a sole survivor left picking up the pieces. It's a horrible thought but a reality, I know if I thought that way I would end up with 20 kids :crazy: I shudder :giggle:

I guess making the decision to have another child really does fall down to why the need is there and whether it's a realistic need or not. Only each individual person can decide that for themselves, one persons con is another persons pro, so I guess it's pointless to try and "argue" it.

I am sure we have all done a great job of keeping you in the exact same frame of mind you started with, Alyssa :lol:

Quote:
<TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=6 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD class=alt2 style="BORDER-RIGHT: 1px inset; BORDER-TOP: 1px inset; BORDER-LEFT: 1px inset; BORDER-BOTTOM: 1px inset">Originally Posted by Karri
Re: following your head vs following your heart. I don't think that there is one better path than the other. For some people, its better to listen to a mix of both, for some its better to listen to one over the other. I think it just depends on your individual situation.
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Excellent point!!!



Quote:
<TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=6 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD class=alt2 style="BORDER-RIGHT: 1px inset; BORDER-TOP: 1px inset; BORDER-LEFT: 1px inset; BORDER-BOTTOM: 1px inset">Originally Posted by MrsPeacefrog
I am sure we have all done a great job of keeping you in the exact same frame of mind you started with, Alyssa :lol:
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:bowdown:Our job here is done!:lol:

Jo :lol2:

And yeah, your situation is different...but I would literally jump up and down (and take a video for you :awink: ) if you told me you were pg again. :heee:
Want me to send you a video of what "Rockband" looks (sounds!) like at our house?! It might sway you one way (or the other ;) )...

Joking aside - thank you for your sweet words. :hug99: As much as I'd love it, well...I'll live vicariously through you, should you decide that #4 is a go!