Any Lawyers here...

[Kasie]

I am thinking of going to law school. I would like to do family/adoption law. Or corporate or employment law. I am just starting Community College now to get my generals done then it is off to transfer. I guess what I am wondering is do you like what you do? How is the pay? What type of Lawyer are you? What kind of classes/grades do I need to take? What about extra-cirriculars? I know this is a lot of questions but I finally think I found what I want to do with the rest of my life.

[bunkie68]

Kasie, I'm an attorney. My first bit of advice is, if you aren't sure, don't do it! :lol: Seriously, law school was three of the most hellish years of my life, and not something to undertake if you're having doubts about making it your career path.

Now let me see if I can answer some of your questions.

~What type of lawyer am I? At the moment, I'm not technically practicing law - my position is more of a consulting position. But previously in my career, I've been a prosecutor (assistant district/county attorney) for two different counties and a staff attorney for a non-profit organization.

~Do I like what I do? At the moment, not really. I work for a major insurance company. We help our member agents educate their clients on matters regarding estate and business succession and tax issues (and some insurance stuff, although that isn't my section's main focus), and in the long run, hopefully give the agents info they can use to sell insurance to their clients. It's kind of depressing to me that the point of my job is basically to help people who have way more money than me (we only work with estates of $3 million and up) save more money on their estate taxes when they die than I'll ever have. There's not a tremendous amount of soul satisfaction in my job at the end of the day, no feeling that I've really made a difference in someone's life.

~What do I make? My current job pays most of the bills, most days - currently I make about $55,000 a year. (That's depressing, too, when you consider that I've been out of law school for ten years and the starting salary for associates right out of school at major firms is around $110,000 or more. :rolleyes: ) When I started out as a prosecutor, my salary was somewhere in the mid-$30's, and when I worked for the non-profit, I made about $40,000 a year.

~Classes to take? I don't think it really matters. Some colleges have a pre-law program, but it isn't necessary to take that. I was an English major in undergrad. A friend of mine went to law school after getting his degree in French, and there were people in my class who majored in everything from business to biochemistry. I'd say it's probably better to take classes that focus on writing and logical thought more than pure sciences, though, simply because scientific analysis isn't a skill that's used much in law school.

~Grades? I was a decent student in undergrad, but not great - my GPA was about 3.5. I did really well on the LSAT, though, so I'm sure that helped me out a lot. And even without great grades, I still got a half-tuition scholarship for that first year - my law school was really good about financial aid and scholarships.

~Extra-curriculars? I have no idea. I don't remember what my law school focused on when I was applying. I was in a service fraternity, and a couple of honor societies, but I don't recall having a huge amount of extra-curricular stuff.

Hope this helps a little. Good luck, and if you have any more questions, I'll be happy to answer them if I can. :)

Lisa

[MaryNH]

Just sneaking in here...I'm not a lawyer, but here's an idea...I believe if you give the military service as a lawyer(think JAG), it might pay for law school...My friend did this with medical school!!! Good luck!!!!

PS-Bunkie....the military always needs good lawyers..especially females!!! ;)

[bunkie68]

PS-Bunkie....the military always needs good lawyers..especially females!!! ;)
Mary, I don't think I'd meet the weight requirements! :lol: Yes, they even have weight requirements for their attorneys - a friend of mine was a JAG attorney, and she'd tell me about having to weigh in weekly and do so much exercise and going to the steam room to sweat off a few extra pounds. Blech, no thanks - I worry enough about my weight on my own! Besides, it would probably mean moving - OK if it were just me, but I don't want to move my son to a strange new place right now. I am looking at other positions, though - I've got my eye on a truancy court magistrate position with the county, which would have decent hours and great pay, and would probably be pretty enjoyable to boot! :)

Lisa

[Rubber Ducky]

I am thinking of going to law school. I would like to do family/adoption law. Or corporate or employment law. I am just starting Community College now to get my generals done then it is off to transfer. I guess what I am wondering is do you like what you do? How is the pay? What type of Lawyer are you? What kind of classes/grades do I need to take? What about extra-cirriculars? I know this is a lot of questions but I finally think I found what I want to do with the rest of my life.
Another non-attorney here, but considered law school at one point, and my sister's an attorney.
Are you finished with your undergraduate work? If not, then definitely take some law classes- I took a couple of them in undergrad and enjoyed them immensely (hence my wanting to go to law school). Then I found out practicing law and the idea of law are frequently two very different things. (See: The Death of Common Sense, The Case Against Lawyers, and about a million other books on the topic).
I can answer the questions for my sister: she's an attorney working for a firm, she typically represents insurance companies or larger plantiffs (for instance, she recently represented a sheriff's department when they got sued for wrongful termination and some weird disability claim). She really, really likes her job. She works reasonable hours, probably about 45- 47 a week average. She makes boatloads of money- around 100K- in an area where the cost of living is ridiculously cheap. She majored in finance in her undergrad and graduated with really good grades, probably around a 3.75, but I don't remember exactly. Then she took a few years and did nothing with her bachelor's until she took her LSAT (no idea what she got, but she did well) and went to law school at University of Tennessee. Being a state school, she didn't accumulate a ton of debt, but nothing to sneeze at- probably around $60,000. She didn't have much in the way of extracurricular activities in undergrad, but I honestly think life experience before law school is factored in somewhere. Regardless, she's obviously a woman, and she's also a minority (we're american indian), so I think that helped her some (and she also got scholarships from our tribe, which helped with the finances). She's probably one of the top three hardest working people I know, and she said law school, particularly the first year, was absolute hell.
She's an excellent attorney- she's never lost a case. However, here's the problem: the qualities which make her an excellent attorney, and which she's rewarded for financially and with prestige within her firm, also happen to be qualities that make for not a very nice person. Arrogant, belligerant, unwilling to look at any other side of a situation but the one she's interested in, unwilling to accept any outcome to a situation unless it's the one she's planned for, and a total intolerance of other points of view. These qualities make a great litigator, but a lousy person, and very few people can be one person at work and an entirely different person at home.
I don't mean to poo-poo your ideas, just giving you another perspective. I've known other attorneys who had very different personalities, and either went into different types of law or were relatively unsuccessful. I also know that my sister wanted to work as a public defender, but after the debt of law school, she simply couldn't afford to work for $32,000 a year. Now, she's so used to living on more than triple that that I'm sure she'll never give it up to go do defense work. I actually know a few attorneys who had every intention to follow an altruistic purpose with practicing law, and not a single one of them did- they all went for the money (typically out of necessity- I'm not bashing them). I'm sorry to seem like I'm trying to disillusion you, I'm really not! :) But I do want you to know that there's a lot more to being an attorney than it might seem on the surface. :)

[Tamara26]

Yet another non-attorney putting my two cents in ;) . I was gung-ho on becoming a lawyer while in high school and college. I did the whole mock trial thing, debate, school politics...anything that involved running my mouth off :blush1: (I was very much like Sara's sister, I think....I've mellowed since then). The really eye-opening experience for me involved working for a public defender for two summers during college. So my advice would be to try and obtain some type of internship at a law firm to really experience the legal world for yourself. I had some crazy idealistic view of what "being a lawyer" meant. Lots of courtroom drama, excitement, etc. (Probably too many episodes of LA Law when I was a child :lol2: ) Anyhow, I found the countless hours spent in the library and very little actual court time to be kind of dull. Obviously there will be a certain level of drudgery associated with any job, but make sure that it involves something that you'd enjoy. For me, I just didn't like it enough to devote my life to it.

Now, my best friend also happens to be an attorney, specifically a patent attorney. She was a civil engineer with a master's degree in engineering before she went back to law school. She had a decent (not outstanding ) GPA, I think it was a 3.2 or something (we went to Cornell), and scored in the top 10% on the LSAT but still didn't get into UPenn law school...she went to Villanova. She works fairly hard (around 50-60 hours a week) at a large law firm in Philly and makes around 120k a year. Seems like a lot, but the almost $150k in loans takes a big chunk out of that. She loves what she does and manages to do some pro bono work in her spare time. She's also not your typical lawyer personality type, but doesn't really need to be for patent law.

So, I guess my only advice for you would be to try and get some experience in the field before making any decisions and maybe talk with a career counselor. Good luck !!!

[Mom2Alex]

Non-conventional attorney here. :) Graduated from law school after three years of disillusionment... :lol: I realized that the last thing I wanted to do was practice civil law, so I took a year off after I graduated and then went back to school to specialize in church law. That's what I do now.

~What type of lawyer am I? I'm a canon lawyer. I specifically work in internal Catholic Church law.

~Do I like what I do? I love it! It's great! I get to work in the mental gymnastics of law, which I loved, but I get to avoid the substantive base of civil law that I absolutely hated. I wouldn't go back to civil law now for anything. :)

~What do I make? Well, I started at $30g a year, with full benefits and a retirement plan, but it really depends on where you live. Also, I'm now no longer in an office and doing independent consultant work from home (judging annulment cases for different dioceses across the country), so I get to be home all day with my baby and then do case work in the evenings and on weekends when DH is home. :) I make about $100- $120 per case that I do, and I can do about 3-6 cases on a weekend. So, the extra income is really better than any other p/t job or WAHM job. And, I get the ultimate benefit of being the primary caretaker to my baby. :)


~Classes to take? For law school, I took all the pre-law program, so I was fully capable of doing legal research before I ever stepped foot into a law school, which helped me tremendously that first year!

~Grades? I have no idea what they require now... but it was the best of the best when I was there... A's at a minimum... and then you get slapped in the face, b/c you suddenly get the first C of your life in contracts or property class and you basically just sit in a bathtub for two days drinking Irish Cream... swearing that you'll never live through it... Oh wait... that might have been TMI. :lol:

~Extra-curriculars? If you can do an unpaid internship at a county prosecutors office or a public defenders office, that will help you tremendously! If you can get into a class that teaches you how to do legal research while in college, preferably your so or jr year, then your sr year you can do an internship, which always looks good on your application. :)

Jacqui

[Lissa]

Hello! I have been a lawyer for 7.5 years and love it! I knew going in that I did not want to work in the big firm arena. Too many hours, too much stress and not enough life time!

How is the pay? I started out as a Public Defender and progressed to a State Ethics attorney. When I quit, I was making over $50,000 (Which is GREAT in the public sector in Arkansas. :) ) Now that I have a baby, I only work about 5 hours a week doing family/custody cases. My hourly rate -- depending on court appointed vs. purely private case -- is $75 to $150. Not bad for working just a few hours a week.

What type of Lawyer are you? I represent parents involved in DHS custody cases. I really am a lawyer who does social work with these people. They really need alot of help! Most of them don't intend to be bad parents, they need to learn skills to make better/safer choices for their children.

What kind of classes/grades do I need to take? I was a Crim Justice major, but any major will get you into law school. I would advise taking some writing classes to help with law school. English majors tended to do really well grade-wise in law school. My undergrad grades were around 3.5.

What about extra-curriculars? They are not necessary if you have a 4.0 GPA and a great LSAT. But if you aren't top of the top, your EC's can really help you stand out to the admissions committees. Most schools want diversity -- culturally, socially, age, etc. I was involved in a sorority = tons of community service work, mock trial, student congress and choir.

Good luck in making your decision. Law school was the most challenging phase of my life. And I loved every minute of it. I learned an incredible amount of material in a short period and as a bonus made some really great friends. I know Rubber Ducky has a not so pleasant experience with her sister -- there are attorneys like that out there -- but for the most part attorneys are just normal people who are pretty nice.

[Kasie]

Thank you all for your honest answers and opinions. I really value real life examples. I am not a hard edged person at all, that is why I do not want to do any prosecution or defense work. I would really like to get into Employment Law and as a second choice I would love to do adoption/family law. These next few years are going to be the most challenging of my life, I am just so happy to finally know what I want to do.

Again, thanks for all your advice (especially about the irish creams and the bathtub) I appreciate it greatly.

Kasie

[JamieA]

Another non-lawyer answering your question.

I registered just so I could post a response to this too :)

As I said, I am not a lawyer, I am getting my paralegal certificate. I thought I wanted to go to law school. Some days I regret it, other days I thank G-d every minute that I didn't. Why? B/c I have friends in Law School right now and they are miserable. If I did go, I would also want to work with Social Services, as Lissa does. Right now, I'm thinking about getting my MSW.

My advice - Talk to as many attorneys as you can - get a mentor. Try to work in a law firm, as a file clerk or as a runner - ANYTHING! Not only will that help you make an informed decision about what you *really* want to do, it would give you an idea of what your day would really be like!

[KeriS]

OK -well, I'm a non-practicing lawyer. I worked for 3 years at a big firm and HATED IT. I totally agree with those who said a) if you aren't SURE, don't go, and b) look at the realities of practicing and what you want to do. I HAD to go work for a big firm because I had a TON of debt. And I still have it, because in addition we live in a very high cost of living area. Had I worked another year or 2 instead of having a baby & staying home, I probably could have finished paying off my debt, but I was so miserable ...

However, I LOVED law school. It was a blast - challenging, hard, but fun. I went to Georgetown. But I had $120,000 worth of debt by the time I was done, between my in-state college debt and law school.

Your questions:
~What type of lawyer am I? I was in the trial group doing general civil litigation (mostly for big companies) for a year, and then switched to Antitrust Litigation for the remainder of my time. I worked at one of the top 10 biggest firms in the country in the second biggest office in the firm.

~Do I like what I do? I hated it, most days. The partners I worked for were pompous assholes for the most part, and as a young associate you VERY rarely get to do anything real. You don't feel like you make much of an impact on the cases you work on, even, not to mention the rest of the world. You charge a gazillion dollars in legal fees so that the company you represent won't have to pay that same money to the other side -- or you're looking to gain more money for your already rich clients. It's not so personally fulfilling, especially when you're spending 12 hours a day doing document review.

~What do I make? HOWEVER - this was nice. I started my career making $125,000 and left making $150,000. Had I stayed I would be making $175,000 this year. That's hard to pass up, but I was so unhappy. In addition to my 10 or 11 hour work day I had at least an hour (in no traffic) commute time, so I was always gone about 12 or 13 hours a day. Not the best!!

~Classes to take? I don't think it matters either, but if you can, take some poli sci classes or some law classes. My college offered a few classes in conjunction with the law school or taught by law school professors that were great. I also took a legal writing class which REALLY helped get me through the first year of law school - I just had a little less to learn than a lot of my peers.

~Grades? I did well in undergrad and went to a good school. I think I had a 3.86 or something like that. I also had really great LSAT scores which helped ... but I went to Georgetown, which is one of the hardest law schools to get into, so by no means do you need grades that high.

~Extra-curriculars? I worked through undergrad and that was my only extra curricular activity ... I also took a year off between college & law school and worked at a law firm for a while. From what I saw in school, you don't need to do anything in particular - law schools value people with diverse backgrounds, there isn't any one thing you need to do.

I might go back someday & do something I consider more valuable to the world ... when the kids are older. But I don't see myself ever going back to a firm unless we have to have me go back for financial reasons... it was just miserable.

[Katrina]

An "almost lawyer" here...

I went to law school for a while.. completed half my program. I left the program twice because I wasn't sure if I wanted to practice law. After the first break I took (took a year leave of absence) I still didn't think I wanted to practice law but ironically I LOVED law school and I loved studying.
I left the program again because I was moving to Korea to join my husband there. I was also in an ROTC program and going the JAG route (so I know quite a bit about that from the Army perspective) and had gotten injured and medically disenrolled from the Army, so if I couldn't practice law in the Army, I wasn't sure I wanted to at all. So I left to go to Korea.

I still really miss law school and would REALLY like to go back and finish one day. That said though, since I don't really want to practice law, it's a hell of a commitment to make..
another 3 years (since I would likely have to start over again due to ABA requirements), admissions requirements aren't fun, its a hard, long, tough program, and already has cost me nearly $65,000 in school loans for a partiallly finished degree that I don't plan to use.
That said,
I had graduated undergrad in 1996 with an LSAC (Law Services) adjusted GPA of 2.7 NOT very good. I was applying to Law School for the spring 1999 semester so my undergrad GPA wasn't as important as it could have been had I gone directly after undergrad.
I got a 152 on the LSAT... not great but not horrible. Just above the median line, but it was good enough for an LSAT scholarship at the school I wanted to go to (Which was a 4th tier school but very up and coming)
I had lots of work experience and great references (one from one of my bosses at the police department where I worked who happened to be a praciticing attorney for 26 years) and another from an old professor I TA'd for.

No matter what your credentials are going into law school, there will be a school somewhere who will take you. Don't get caught up in the 'have to go to the best law school" and the whole ranking system... once you get into school, they all teach the same things so it matters most what you get out of it and how you take it.
Since I am one who loved law school but didn't love the idea of being a lawyer, I don't know what kind of perspective I can offer you but let me know if you have any questions.

I went to law school part time, while working full time, and I also was very invovled in the Law School council, and other extras while in school. OH, plus my Army training.
Tough, but doable!

Good luck!