Food Allergies in School?

[LISA]

Does your child or any other child in your childs class have a food allergy? how do you/ the school handle it?

[LISA]

Paige doesn't have any allergies herself but another child in her class does have an allergy to strawberries( and shellfish but no chance of P ever eating a shrimp/lobster in her lifetime let alone in grade 1 lunch :awink: ) so we can't send P to school with them anymore( the same was in P's class last year) so we also could't send them then or as it turned out fruit bars that were strawberry :duh: I mistakenly sent it and thankfully the teacher saw it in P's hand before she opened it( it's made with read fruit puree)

I really think the school should send home a list of recommended foods to pack for lunch/snacks..because almost everything you buy say's "may contain traces of nuts" even a package of liquorice I saw last night said that :wtf:

I found this posted on another site I visit it lists peanut free snacks but I don't know yet if it's Canadian site or not..
http://www.peanutaware.com/safe_foods.html

[Jayne]

I have never had to deal with food allergies. At our public school they don't tell us much and we have a Peanut free table for those children who can't sit with children who may bring foods with Peanuts. We are told not to bring snacks at all during the school year. The only time we do is on party day's and those are only on Halloween and Valentines day!

[TtownAnne]

Some kids in Caroline's school have peanut allergies, but at this point there has been no outright banning of peanut butter (thank heavens, or my kid would never eat lunch!). They have peanut free tables for those that need them, and anyone who has peanut butter for lunch has to do a full minute handwashing after lunch.

[LISA]

We are told not to bring snacks at all during the school year.

By snacks I mean like to have with the lunch like crackers/cookie..during pre kindergarden Paige had to pack 3 snacks and her lunch :eek: but we didn't have any kids in class with allergies at the time but the school was still trying to be peanut free..no clue on how strict they are re: peanuts..I do remember then sending a note last year about no peanut butter at all :dunno:

[Jayne]

I see what you mean. I just was refering to the fact that during the day other then lunch there are no other foods allowed to be brought in. I do pack her lunch but we haven't been given any restrictions other then to try and think healthy!

[gulp!]

We've dealt with it every year either kid has been in school. Preschool was totally nut-free, and this year, there's at least one child who is severely allergic to a few things. So now the kids sit at assigned tables and everyone brings in their own snack, vs. last year when the parents brought in snack for everyone on their assigned day. There is also an extra hand washing session now to make sure all traces of lunch are gone off the kids' hands.

In kindergarten, we just learned of some peanut allergies in Emma's class, so we've been asked to have the snack be peanut-free. Lunch can be anything though- they have a peanut-free table.

[Jillian]

Caid's school is peanut free. Janelle's school is nut free for the first 8weeks while they establish how many kids and what kids in the school have allergies then a final decision will be made.

Personally I'm not sure I'd be comfortable with just a peanut free table at such a young age if my kids had severe allergies, so I'm fine with the whole school being peanut free...I figure my kid refusing one meal a day is much better than another kid having a severe allergic reaction.

[LISA]

I just asked Paige about peanuts at school and she said NO ONE at all is allowed to bring anything peanut to school so it's not just one area it's the whole school...I must have missed that letter though :scratch:

[Girlo]

There is a little boy in Alex's class who is highly allergic to peanuts, all tree nuts, sesame seeds, and some other stuff. :( The school itself is a peanut-free zone, so we're not allowed to bring ANY peanut-related snacks ever anyway.

How our class is handling it is that the mom will provide a detailed list of exactly what he's allergic to before the first class day. Then, it's up to all of us parents to not bring anything for snack (we all take turns bringing snacks for the whole class) that's on the list. :)
On Alex's bday, I am going to make cupcakes for everyone, but I'll just have to make sure that the ingredients are okay.

I don't know what to expect once he gets to a bigger elementary school......

[Jayne]

Personally I'm not sure I'd be comfortable with just a peanut free table at such a young age if my kids had severe allergies, so I'm fine with the whole school being peanut free...I figure my kid refusing one meal a day is much better than another kid having a severe allergic reaction.

I am guessing it is a safe environment if they have been doing this for at least the past 7 years (Tylor has been in school) and have not had one issue at all.

[Jillian]

I am guessing it is a safe environment if they have been doing this for at least the past 7 years (Tylor has been in school) and have not had one issue at all.


I think peanut allergies are getting worse and more prevelant though...I know when I was in school there were a few people with bee allergies and that was it, no food allergies to speak of...it's changed a lot since then, and I'm not *that* old. That is why Janelle's school is only the first 8 weeks...some years they still have no kids with allergies.

[Karly]

Someone in Ty's class has a peanut allergy, and there is also a latex allergy among someone. I'm not sure if it's the same kid with both allergies, or separate kids. :dunno:

Anyway, on the first night, they sent home a letter saying that we couldn't bring in anything made from latex, and even new tennis shoes had to be wiped down with a cloth. They also said to be aware of the peanut allergy when bringing in treats for the class, but did not say that we couldn't bring in a snack containing peanuts for our own child. :dunno:

The next day, I sent Ty to school with peanut butter and honey snack crackers. Tyrus was allowed to eat them, but he had to wash his hands and mouth after eating them. That night he said to me, "mom, didn't you see the paper about no peanuts in my class?" :shuffle: I guess I didn't read into what they were saying close enough.

Since then, we've done peanut free snacks. It's just not worth the fuss.

[Clare]

We haven't had to deal with it yet. There are kids at daycare with allergies but we don't send any food there so it's not a problem. In the past we used to provide a cake on their birthday and had to give them the ingredient list with it but now we just pay them $5 and the cook makes a birthday cake instead:)

There aren't any allergies in either Emily or Harry's classes. There is a child with a peanut allergy in the class inbetween but they deal with it in that classroom, there isn't a schoolwide policy (yet). Harry is a very fussy eater and takes a peanut butter sandwich for his lunch every day but if a child with an allergy joins his class he will just have to learn to eat something else. I will not risk another child's life just cause my kid is fussy.

[Jillian]

but now we just pay them $5 and the cook makes a birthday cake instead:)



That totally rocks!

[debstar]

Interesting topic, and I'm interested to see what different schools do. Abbey at this stage is potentially anaphylactic to dairy, eggs & peanuts. Potentially meaning she hasn't actually eaten any of these foods herself but based on skin test reactions & family history there is a 95% chance she is anaphylactic! She has testing again next year at 3 1/2 & we are hoping that the severity of the allergies has decreased somewhat, but we will see. Based on her test results next year we will formulate our plan for kindergarten & school. It is rare for a child to outgrow a peanut allergy though.

She doesn't go to childcare, and wherever we go we take her own food. We go to playgroup once a week, & playgroup has a policy of fruit & water only for snacks. There is another little boy in our group with the same allergies as Abbey and his Mum did all the hard work before we joined to educate the other parents about allergies.

Clare I was surprised that Harry can take a peanut butter sandwich to school. If it is banned there is a fairly new product called "Free-nut Butter". It is a peanut butter replacement made from sunflower seeds. It actually tastes pretty good.

Jillian, I think Janelle's school has a good policy of assessing who has what allergies & making a plan from there.

[Brandi]

I don't know about ours. I'll have to figure that out. Heather's birthday is in the summer and we don't bring snacks to school and she doesn't eat lunch there. So, I don't know. Carter's school doesn't have any rules about it right now, but I bet if there was a kid there that had an allergy, it would change. He only has about 65 kids in his whole school.

There is a school here that went peanut-free and the parents complained about it and got them to overturn that rule so that kids can bring nuts to school again. I think it's terrible. I mean, if a kid is so severly allergic to nuts that they could die, well, it's really super easy on my part to just not pack anything with nuts. If it was my kid, than I would expect others to obey the rule. Even though Carter lived on PB&J for 2 years at school, well, I would just have had to do something else. I feel so sorry for the kids that have this allergy!

[Karri]

Aidan's got a nut-free classroom. They do snack, and parents provide it (we are assigned a day to bring it in), and it must not just be peanut free, but must not indicate that it could contain traces of peanuts... or was made in a factory that also mfgs nut products....etc.
For lunch, they have a nut-free table in the cafeteria. I don't know how they handle other allergies. I am assuming they are most concerned about peanuts, since it can be airborne.

[Karly]

So Karri, what do you bring? Fruit?

[~Deborah~]

I found this posted on another site I visit it lists peanut free snacks but I don't know yet if it's Canadian site or not..
http://www.peanutaware.com/safe_foods.html

Your good with this site Lisa :) This is the site I use for myself and the boys :giggle:

I would say that all schools in Canada (I could be wrong) are Nut-Free but I know there are snacks and stuff that slip in. Joshua and Kyle know that they are only allowed to eat what I give them and the school has a "No swapping" policy. Their is always a teacher in the classrooms during their 2 nutrition breaks so it makes me feel better.

Joshua had children in his class who were allergic to sesame and others who were allergic to other items but there wasn't a *you can't send such and such* in because of it. Just the no nut rule.

[~Deborah~]

Interesting topic, and I'm interested to see what different schools do. Abbey at this stage is potentially anaphylactic to dairy, eggs & peanuts. Potentially meaning she hasn't actually eaten any of these foods herself but based on skin test reactions & family history there is a 95% chance she is anaphylactic! It is rare for a child to outgrow a peanut allergy though.



This is my boys too. I am anaphylactic to nuts (and other things) so the chance is quite large that they are too.

If it is banned there is a fairly new product called "Free-nut Butter". It is a peanut butter replacement made from sunflower seeds. It actually tastes pretty good.

These are banned too from our school as they look so close to peanut butter that people can slip peanut butter in.

[MrsPeacefrog]

Aiden is anaphylactic to nuts. His school have a complete nut free environment rule. No nuts products in the canteen nor are the students allowed to bring in any nut products.

I never let him eat cakes that are brought in by other mothers, even if the ingredients were given in, mainly because I fear if they had nuts on their table before hand and didn't clean it up that traces could have gotten into the mix and it's not worth risking. I just have premade cake frozen in the school freezer and whenever a child brings a cake in for a birthday Aiden gets the defrosted cake. He doesn't seem to mind for now.

[Alyssa]

Our entire elementary school is recommended (read: highly encouraged, over and over) to be peanut free. We had to sign a form to say we'll try to abide by it. Some rooms where there are actual allergies are more like what Karri said - you need to virtually certify anything you bring in for your child or the whole class has no traces of peanuts. And before you go in those rooms, you have to use antibacterial wipes.

[Alyssa]

I really think the school should send home a list of recommended foods to pack for lunch/snacks..because almost everything you buy say's "may contain traces of nuts" even a package of liquorice I saw last night said that :wtf:
We got a list like this sent home. Twice.

[Alyssa]

I know some of you have commented on it not being worth the risk to bring in peanuts, but I wanted to share a story.

A girl Aidan went to kindergarten with (different school) won't eat anything but peanut butter. So her mom protested to the school this year that they needed to make accomodations for her daughter just as they make them for the kids who are allergic to peanut butter. She didn't think it was fair that her child would have to suffer/lose nourishment because she's being told she can't eat what she likes. She wasn't saying she had to eat in the same spot as those other kids, just that she could be accomodated.

This seems fair to me. The school agreed - she won. (I think she can sit mainstream b/c there aren't actual peanut allergies in her class.)

[TtownAnne]

This thread is just staggering to read. I can't even grasp the fact that so many people are allergic to nuts. How does this happen? Nobody was allergic to nuts when I went to school!

(and it makes me happy that Caroline's school is not quite as rigidly strict as some things I'm reading here....)

[TtownAnne]

I think that's brilliant, Alyssa! I wouldn't go so far in my own case, but I like that Caroline's school believes the allergic kid has to bear some responsibility for the things they need (i.e., sitting at a different table to be safe, making sure they wash their hands before they go back to class, etc.) Naturally if there are serious allergies they are more involved and proactive, but they haven't gone so far as to say 100+ kids in the student body have to go without because one kid in a completely different lunch period has an allergy (an example, but YKWIM)

[Alyssa]

This thread is just staggering to read. I can't even grasp the fact that so many people are allergic to nuts. How does this happen? Nobody was allergic to nuts when I went to school!
It's got to be environmental. It shocks me too. :nod:

[gulp!]

Shannon, that's funny that you got a list of all the stuff that you *couldn't* bring. Wouldn't it have been more useful to have a list of approved items to choose from?
In Emma's first year of preschool, they did this. It was very helpful, b/c if it wasn't on the list, I wouldn't consider sending it.

Karly, for snacks we brought a fruit, a vegetable, and a carb, or cheese. The carb was usually crackers or goldfish or something.

Count me in as another one surprised by the number of allergic kids these days.

[Mary DK]

On Alex's bday, I am going to make cupcakes for everyone, but I'll just have to make sure that the ingredients are okay.
So they let you bring homemade stuff? Neither of the boys schools allow us to bring homemade snacks for the whole class, they need to be store bought and can't be anything sugary or with chocolate, so no cookies, cereals or cakes/cupcakes (unless is somebody's bday).

This thread is just staggering to read. I can't even grasp the fact that so many people are allergic to nuts. How does this happen? Nobody was allergic to nuts when I went to school!
I agree, it really is surprising :nod: And I'm also surprised that I haven't heard anything about even any rooms being peanut free at Eliot's school :dunno:

[Clare]

I know some of you have commented on it not being worth the risk to bring in peanuts, but I wanted to share a story.

A girl Aidan went to kindergarten with (different school) won't eat anything but peanut butter. So her mom protested to the school this year that they needed to make accomodations for her daughter just as they make them for the kids who are allergic to peanut butter. She didn't think it was fair that her child would have to suffer/lose nourishment because she's being told she can't eat what she likes. She wasn't saying she had to eat in the same spot as those other kids, just that she could be accomodated.

This seems fair to me. The school agreed - she won. (I think she can sit mainstream b/c there aren't actual peanut allergies in her class.)

See I disagree with that. Her child isn't going to die by not having a peanut butter sandwich at lunchtime, but an allergic child could very well die from being around the same sandwich.

Now if there isn't any allergic children in the school then I say yes, let the kid have a pb sandwich. But if there is, then she should have to follow the rules.

[debstar]

This is my boys too. I am anaphylactic to nuts (and other things) so the chance is quite large that they are too.



I was going to ask if your boys had allergies Deb? Just from your comment that they know only to eat the food you pack/prepare for them. Have they been tested? And I should qualify my statement. Abbey has reacted to food I have eaten through breastmilk. That is why we originally got her tested at 6 mths.

[Girlo]

Stef - I guess the NO list for this boy is a lot smaller than the YES list. :lol: It'll be easier to just keep off the list, I guess.....

Mary - we can bring in homemade stuff - with teacher advance permission - for a special occasion ONLY (like a bday). I talked with the allergic boy's mom during the parent orientation about bringing cupcakes for Alex's bday, and she said it would be okay as long as there were no peanuts in it. :) It's a small enough school, and very parent involved (it's a co-op), so I feel like we can all trust each other to not be careful for the sake of one of our kids.
Otherwise, all the snacks are required (by the school's insurance) to be premade and in unopened packages. This includes fruit. If you want to serve apple slices, you have to bring in the whole apple, and cut it up at the school. And you can't just bring in the mostly full box of Goldfish you have in your pantry....it has to be a brand-new package.

[Alyssa]

See I disagree with that. Her child isn't going to die by not having a peanut butter sandwich at lunchtime, but an allergic child could very well die from being around the same sandwich.

Now if there isn't any allergic children in the school then I say yes, let the kid have a pb sandwich. But if there is, then she should have to follow the rules.No, she's not going to die...but she might not learn as well since she's hungry. If the mom was saying she needed to sit smack dab in the middle of the lunchroom with the sandwich it would be one thing...but to just ask for a safe place for her daughter to eat what she likes seems fair to me. Equal "discrimination" if you will.

[Jayne]

No, she's not going to die...but she might not learn as well since she's hungry. If the mom was saying she needed to sit smack dab in the middle of the lunchroom with the sandwich it would be one thing...but to just ask for a safe place for her daughter to eat what she likes seems fair to me. Equal "discrimination" if you will.

This is exactly how I feel. If the school can provide a safe place for the student to sit and either Eat their pb or not then I don't see a problem with it. There are health inspections at schools, they are advised by the state and others on what they can and should do for students and if it were not safe they couldn't do it so that is why our school provides the Nut-Free tables for those who need them. It is the responsibility of the parent and the child to inform the school that their child needs to sit at these such tables and they take the extra precautionary measures needed to insure these children are safe. If my child had this allergy I would be pleased that they went to those measures.

Like I said..and yes I know that the allergies are getting worse..Apparently moreso in other area's then my own but they haven't had a single problem in 7 years thus far and if they had they would have taken other measures to prevent a problem.

[~Deborah~]

I was going to ask if your boys had allergies Deb? Just from your comment that they know only to eat the food you pack/prepare for them. Have they been tested? And I should qualify my statement. Abbey has reacted to food I have eaten through breastmilk. That is why we originally got her tested at 6 mths.

They have been tested but only by placing the peanut butter on the cheek.....hives. Kyle has had reactions to some fruits like berries and other things as well. I am looking for a new allergist to get myself and the boys tested again.

[Missy&Maggie]

I have now sat on both sides of this debate. Before I found out that Maggie was allergic, I was upset by "nut free" places. But now that Maggie had an anaphylactic reaction, I am much more understanding. Think about that young child who eats PB for lunch and then doesn't wash her hands or wipe her mouth well. She kisses Maggie anywhere near her lips... Maggie could have an anaphylactic reaction. She uses her hand to push on the water fountain, Maggie uses it and then wipes her mouth, Maggie could have an anaphylactic reaction. Scary stuff.

I was a big PB&J eater and Van was a big mixed nuts eater before this happened. We now eat Sunbutter which is made from sunflower seeds and it's not a bad replacement at all. If Maggie weren't allergic but some other kid in her class was, I would have no problem making her bring Sunbutter to school.

All that being said, her preschool is nut free. The public school is not, as far as I know, and they don't have a hot lunch program so there are a lot of items brought from home. I'm looking forward to seeing what happens next year when Maggie starts Kindergarten.

[LISA]

Before I found out that Maggie was allergic, I was upset by "nut free" places. This was me too only non of my kids were/are allergic..for me it started when Cass was in elementary school( she's 18 now, so quite awhile back) I thought "give me a break, one kid is allergic and now the whole school has to suffer" blah blah..

I can't tell you how ashamed I am for EVER thinking that way.. when I realize how prevelant it is now and how children,helpless children! are dying from being around a peanut or the mere trace of it and the poor parent who worries about sending her child to school wondering if he/she will be ok..every single day!..I honestly could never ever live with myself if a child had a reaction or died because my child just :airquote:had:airquote: to have a peanut butter sandwhich that day..

[Karri]

So Karri, what do you bring? Fruit?
Sometimes - if its on sale :lol: But there are a lot of traditional products that are safe. Rold Gold pretzels, Honey Maid graham crackers, Wheat Thins, certain types of the Goldfish crackers (but not all), etc. You just have to make sure you read the packaging closely. Aidan's teacher sent home a detailed list w/ safe brands of a lot of common snacks. Then like you said, there is always fruit, veggies, cheese, etc.

In the case Alyssa posted, I don't know. I really don't feel like its tit-for-tat in Kindergarten. Once you get older, yes, because the kids can manage washing their hands better and knowing how to stay safe, as well. However, I think that a child who only eats PB is just ridiculous. Maybe the parent should take that opportunity to stop catering to their picky as all hell child and get them to eat other foods. Afterall, if the child is hungry enough, they'll eat. And the parent can think outside the box, as far as lunches go. :rolleyes:
When Aidan started preschool, PB sandwiches were the only sandwiches he'd eat. I had to think of some creative lunches. Now there is a ton I can pack in his lunch, and he's willing to eat turkey sandwiches, which he wouldn't before (and I was against, being a non-meat eater, but you know what? I got over it. other kids lives were more important).
I don't think some people realize just how severe a peanut allergy can be. My friend's child is so allergic that he'll go into anaphalactic shock if he's in the same room as peanuts/PB. And that's because it can be airborne. That's NOT the case w/ strawberries, shellfish, dairy, wheat, oats, corn, etc. So in preschool/kindy they make the classrooms peanut free, because foods are in the classroom. However, once they eat in the cafeteria, its not peanut-free. They have a peanut-free zone, but if he needs to be out of the room, then the teacher makes an accomodation for him to eat outside the cafeteria. Once they reach Jr. High, its a different story...its up to the kids to determine where they want to eat and socialize.

[Dawnie]

Victoria's school does not have a ban on nut items. The school does have a nut free area of the lunch room and the parents are made aware at the beginning of the school year whether there are nut allergies in their child's classroom (we are asked to provide a snack for all students in their class once or twice a month).

Last year Victoria's kindergarten class (AM) did not have any allergies but the PM class in that room did have them. Her teacher made ALL the parents aware of this so when the AM parents sent in snacks we might think twice about sending in things with nuts but she didn't come right out and tell us NO. She did assure the PM parents that there was a special table for the kids with allergies to sit at and ALL tables and chairs were wiped down prior to the PM class arriving at school. She also said most of the children with nut allergies were bringing in their own snacks just to be on the safe side.

I had no problem with avoiding snack items with nuts in them even though I really didn't need to. We already had our "meet the teacher" night this year and there was no mention of any nut allergies when the snack calendar came home but I will still try to avoid them. Our snacks can be homemade too. All they ask is that we send in healthy snacks and not things like chips, donuts, cookies, etc.

Dawn

[LISA]

In the case Alyssa posted, I don't know. I really don't feel like its tit-for-tat in Kindergarten. Once you get older, yes, because the kids can manage washing their hands better and knowing how to stay safe, as well. However, I think that a child who only eats PB is just ridiculous. Maybe the parent should take that opportunity to stop catering to their picky as all hell child and get them to eat other foods. Afterall, if the child is hungry enough, they'll eat. And the parent can think outside the box, as far as lunches go. :rolleyes:.

I absolutely totally agree on this! if a child can boycott all other foods except peanut butter well guess what, add one more thing to that list 'cause she(talking my kids now ;) ) just won't get it if she's going to school :dunno:

[Clare]

No, she's not going to die...but she might not learn as well since she's hungry. If the mom was saying she needed to sit smack dab in the middle of the lunchroom with the sandwich it would be one thing...but to just ask for a safe place for her daughter to eat what she likes seems fair to me. Equal "discrimination" if you will.

I still disagree. I don't think this has got anything to do with equal rights. The allergic child doesn't choose to have a life-threatening allergy but the other child does choose to be a picky eater.

I'm saying this as the mother of a child who is a very picky eater and takes a pb sandwich to school every day. If an allergic child were to join his class then he would have to eat something else for lunch. Plain bread if that's what it's going to take :dunno: He can have his peanut butter sandwich when he gets home.

[LISA]

I'm saying this as the mother of a child who is a very picky eater and takes a pb sandwich to school every day. If an allergic child were to join his class then he would have to eat something else for lunch. Plain bread if that's what it's going to take :dunno: He can have his peanut butter sandwich when he gets home.

This is what Paige does right now..she's the pickiest kid and won't eat peanut butter so she takes a plain bun to school..I had to explain to the teacher that no, I wasn't depriving my child of food..this was all she would eat :)

[Alyssa]

I probably would feel differently if there was a known high PB allergy that the kid can "catch" through the air. But as far as we've been told, there isn't that. I guess regardless, my point was if it's this much of an issue for this child, the school should let this girl eat her PB sandwich even if it's in the principal or nurse's office where they can wash her hands, etc. well before she goes back into the school population.

Anyway, it's not my kid. :awink: We're finding enough alternatives.

[TtownAnne]

And again, I agree with Alyssa - I think the school has enough protocols in place that my kid should be able to eat her PB&J (and no, it's not the ONLY thing she'll eat, but it's one of her preferred foods, just as many of us here have talked about what we prefer or won't get near - if there are things we will and won't eat, why are we supposed to make our kids "get over it"? are they not permitted to know their own minds?). Any kid who eats peanut butter must do a thorough hand and face washing overseen by a teacher/lunch aide, the tables and benches are all scrubbed down in between lunch periods, so I'll send her on with whatever sandwich she chooses for the day until there's some kid so allergic that necessitates otherwise (and I have yet to ever hear of someone that severe)

[~Deborah~]

It is great that there are protocols of wiping down tables,washing of hands and faces after eating a nut product but from what I have been told by my allergist, the protein of nuts remains in the system of someone for 14 hrs! Even if your brush your teeth over and over.

There was a case a few years ago here in Canada where a girl kissed her boyfriend the next day (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/4481546.stm)and she died. Turns out her boyfriend had eaten nuts the night before.

On a sidenote, when I worked as a flight attendant I had to spend the entire flight in the flight deck to and from a destination because someone on the plane opened a bag of nuts and it got into the air and I had a reaction.

[Michele]

I have to agree with Karri, Lisa, and Clare on this one - especially for the younger grades, once a kid is older they can protect themselves better, but to me a Kindergartener is still so little. I would hate to be think that my kid could die at school just b/c someone couldn't give up their PB&J for one meal.

As to the girl Alyssa referenced, I can see the point (the whole equal discrimination thing), but I think this would be a good opportunity to try and expand your kid's palate, rather than enable her to only eat one food. Yes people have different preferences, and I'm not suggesting that anyone send their child to school with something they HATE, but I just don't get why giving up PB for 5 meals a week is such a big deal.

[Clare]

I would hate to be think that my kid could die at school just b/c someone couldn't give up their PB&J for one meal.

.

Exactly. A child's right to stay alive supercedes another's right to eat peanut butter at school IMO.

To me this is the same as the giving every child a trophy attitude. It's giving the child a sense of entitlement, that they have a right to eat what they want when they want no matter the consequence to somebody else. Isn't this a good opportunity to teach a child about compassion and thinking of others?

What if the teacher wanted to have a cigarette in the classroom? Shouldn't she be allowed to because she has rights and it doesn't matter if her right is detrimental to the children's health? Same thing IMO.

[MrsPeacefrog]

but I like that Caroline's school believes the allergic kid has to bear some responsibility for the things they need (i.e., sitting at a different table to be safe, making sure they wash their hands before they go back to class, etc.)

This statement shocked me, mainly because I think bearing responsibility for a condition they did not choose to have is a harsh way to put it!

Aiden did not ask to be allergic to nuts. Trust me, he BEARS plenty of responsibility in his everyday life, having to learn his limitations from a young age. He already misses out on being able to join in and pig out at parties with out checking what is in the food first, he can't eat cakes that are made by other mothers or anywhere for that matter that hasn't been tried and tested or go out to dinner without asking a million questions about ingredients and cooking methods and he can't enjoy the luxuray of just grabbing something out of a pantry and eating it knowing he will still be alive at the end of it, this he will bear for the rest of his life. I don't want to sound dramatic, but basically that is what it's like to be anaphylactic. I refuse to think it's too much to ask so that MY child does not die is that other children in his school wait till they get home to have their PB&J sandwich. :dunno:

Maybe I am bias because my child CAN die from something as simple as someone using a water fountain with nuts on their hands and then him touching it and ingesting that, but I can't believe the "If my child wants my child will have" attitudes that are out there. Will that attitude still remain if that child inadvertantly kills the anaphylactic child because they couldn't do with out their peanut butter for one meal?

I am sure a lot of peoples attitudes would change if it was their flesh and blood living with the risk.

I also think this mother who protested because her child would lose nutrition by not having her peanut butter sandwich is the biggest crock of shit I have ever heard. I find it hard to believe a child can solely live on peanut butter and be HEALTHY!

[Brandi]

WOW! A lot of thoughts here. I heard someone on another board say that a pb&j sandwhich was like a loaded gun for her kid. It can KILL. Dead! No more child! So, while I empathize for the child who only wants pb&j, they aren't going to die if they can't have one for lunch. Eat it at home and enjoy it. Would it be ok for some other kids to bring a loaded gun to school if they sat at a different table? What if they were very careful and were told that they couldn't take off the safety during school? Would that be ok? Would you send your child to that school? Not every child (even when supervised by an adult - they can't watch everyone) is going to wash their hands properly after they eat. Maybe as they get older, but especially not in Kindergarten. I know I am pretty vocal about this. I'm sorry if I am offending anyone. I just feel very strongly about it. It's just scary!

[MrsPeacefrog]

That was a very good analogy, Brandi :aok:

I will always believe that a child's right to life takes precedence over a child's right to eat their food of choice. It just seems trivial to me that not everyone would think that way.

I just wanted to make it clear why I am so passionate about this topic. I can only talk from my own experience but I am sure that any other mother of an anaphylactic child can tell the same story.

I want you to imagine your child standing infront of you, face so swollen they barely look like themselves, clutching at their throats and gagging because they can't draw a proper breath. Now imagine the terror in their eyes while they look at you wanting you to help them and all they are looking at is your own terror straight back at them. Now rush that child to the hospital and imagine the thoughts going through your mind.

Now, add to the checklist when hunting for a school for that very child. "A school that has a policy that will never allow that horror to happen again"

Find that school but then stand there listening to a mother saying "but my daughter loves peanut butter, and she has every right to eat it"

How pathetic does that sound after the experience you went through with your child?

Or even worse, you can't find a school with that policy and you have to send your child off there every single day with out you there to watch them and rely on a virtual stranger to administer medication correctly that may save their lives as long as they get to them in time.

I am sorry but my answer is "The spoiled brat can eat her PB at home where my child can't die from it" No childs love for a food will EVER compare to the torture of watching your child gasp for air, EVER.

[Mary DK]

Deb, I totally agree with you :nod:

I know my kids love PB&J and I know it would be a challenge not being able to give them one to take to school but I would find something because first of all, yes the life of a child with a life threatening allergy should come first and second (like you mentioned) I also find it difficult to think that there wasn't ANYTHING ELSE that little girl would eat... really, that's all she had for bkfast, lunch & dinner? :disbelief:

[debstar]

Wow Deb, I am sitting here with tears streaming down my face, but you just put into words what is in my heart :hug99:. It is hard for us, as parents of these children to live EVERY day with the fear of anaphylaxis. And I haven't even had to send my kids out into the world by themselves yet.



The whole topic just makes me feel so sad. Sad that there are so many ignorant people out there who just don't understand, and I guess never will unless it directly affects their child. And sad because my little girl who is 2 1/2 already is 'different' and misses out on social situations, by having to check about every piece of food she puts into her mouth. And for now she can't order something in a restaurant, we have to take everything for her wherever we go. No I may not have seen my child have an anaphylactic reaction in front of me (yet?), but I have seen it happen to my DH after having a sip of juice that had a trace of banana in it (he is anaphylactic to banana) & it is something I don't want to see ever again, especially not to my babies!


So no that child who will only eat PB sandwiches should not have a 'right' to eat it in school if there is even one child in their class with a peanut allergy. Children with multiply food allergies have a restricted diet through necessity, how can anyone compare 'fussiness' to a life-threatening allergy?

[Kristen]

Our school is somewhat nut-free. Our cafeteria serves nut-free foods and it is encouraged that students bring in nut-free lunches and snacks, but the cafeteria monitors aren't going to yank a pbj sandwich out of a kids hands at lunch. I'm sure we have some nut allergies, but only one of our kids is labelled as can't even BREATHE/SMELL nut products. He never enters the cafeteria, but eats lunch in the office.

Just read the rest of the posts:
How do you handle the student who had P for breakfast and didn't wash well before coming to school? What about the kids who had P for lunch in the summer and then went to play on the same playground your child uses? Its not just having nuts at school that can be the problem. Unfortunately, this part is harder to police. I agree it is a terrifying situation.

[TtownAnne]

Okay, let me reiterate before I'm tied to the proverbial stake here - at Caroline's school there is NO child who is so allergic they will die by being in smelling distance of peanut butter. I've never even heard of it myself, but I'm certain the school would have stricter protocols in place if there were. And I've never said peanut butter is the ONLY thing Caroline will eat, all others be damned. I'm not that stupid or that cruel, thanks. She eats plenty of other things, but when she asks for the peanut butter sandwich she prefers, since it is allowed at her school at this time, I give it to her.

This statement shocked me, mainly because I think bearing responsibility for a condition they did not choose to have is a harsh way to put it!

Then, I will attempt to clarify since no harshness was intended on my part - how about "knowing what they need to do to remain safe"? (i.e., washing hands, sitting at a separate table, etc.)

[Missy&Maggie]

Kristen, I worry about situations like you just posted all the time, but I can't get too upset over situations beyond my control, just do my best to protect my child.

Anne, the problem is not being in "smelling distance" for most kids, although some will have a reaction when the allergen is airborne. Unfortunately the peanut allergen/protein is highly persistent on surfaces, and it only takes a speck to cause a reaction in some kids. The peanut protein can last on the lunch table or water fountain for hours after contact. Antibacterial hand gel does not remove peanut protein from hands. And, Maggie can wash her hands all she wants but if she comes into contact with the protein, it won't help to wash it off. The contact has already happened, and the only treatment is injection with an epipen.

[magoo]

I'm not sure about kids in her class, but the school is nut-free.

ETA: After reading this last page, I wanted to say that I'm 100% supportive of nut-free policies. :)

[Missy]

We got a letter in our school packet with the supply list, bus route, etc. indicating that a child in Hannah's class has a severe allergy to nuts and therefore her classroom will maintain a totally nut-free environment. Her school (it's grades K-6 and is the only elementary school for the whole town, so it is a decent size, 4 kindergarten classes, for example) has numerous kids with severe food allergies and is always on top of the situation. I know that they have a nut-free table in the caffeteria, but I think at least H's class will have nut-free lunches as well as their snack we pack for them to eat mid-morning each day.

Of course, Hannah's favorite lunch (like practically every other American kid :lol: ) is PB&J. But I've already started brainstorming other lunches that are easy to pack, easy for her to eat from a lunch box, and will stay fresh. Cheese and crackers, cheese sandwiches, wheat mini-bagels and cheese or cream cheese, hummus sandwiches, tomato sandwiches, plus simple lunches like apple slices, baby carrots, and a yogurt. It's not *that* hard to think of something else for them to eat! And my daughter can't eat any meat/fish of any kind and I still don't find it hard to think of alternatives.

Everybody just needs to work together and think of each other and care about all the other kids and it's a no-brainer. Kids at 5 are absolutely aware of their allergy/issue (whether it be celiac's, vegetarianism, etc.) and know what they can and cannot eat, and what they need to do to keep themselves safe, but they can't control the other kids and their habits/behavior and in the case of a severe allergy, that can be deadly.

I also think I will not give Hannah nuts for breakfast just to be on the safe side (cereal with nuts, peanut butter toast or bagels, etc.) If it were my child, I would want other parents to do the same :)

Missy

[Cami]

Count me in as another who highly doubts that all this kid eats is PB 3 meals a day. I think it's more likely a "here's a civil rights issue, let's make a fuss."

I agree too that the policy should depend on the circumstances. If there's no one allergic, then allow the foods. But I don't know the latest that allergies are established... would every parent know about allergies for sure by grade school?

In our school experience, the kids' preschools have been nut-free and my understanding was that it was a "just in case" kind of policy because there were so many kids and they were so young. But their schools now allow PB because they said they know there are no kids who are allergic.

[kalm]

Okay, let me reiterate before I'm tied to the proverbial stake here - at Caroline's school there is NO child who is so allergic they will die by being in smelling distance of peanut butter. I've never even heard of it myself, but I'm certain the school would have stricter protocols in place if there were.

I, too, am the mom of a peanut allergic child. And I don't really condemn anyone for their opinions, but I did want to point out that traces of peanut protein need not be visible or smellable to become airborne and potentially fatal to a higly allergic child.

That said, Lilly is not at a peanut free school. I'm not insisting that she be segregated at lunchtime (at a parent's request, an allergic child can eat in separate room -- and be prevented from ever enterting the cafeteria). I didn't do that because Lilly is very aware of her peanut sensitivity and does not seem to be highly reactive (she's never had a major reaction). She is not allowed to eat any snacks brought in from the outside (I have a box of peanut free treats for her teacher to give her -- and anyone else who might want one -- a treat at birthday parties, etc.). She has been photographed and a flyer with her picture is placed in every room she travels to through the course of the day, so that all the teachers/personnel are aware. The upshot is that everyone at school knows her name!

Peanut allergies can be very scary, lethal, business for a lot of people. I grew up eating PB&J daily, and can see how it would be a hardship for some families. Perhaps those kids should eat in a special peanut room, as the allergic kids are asked to eat at Lilly's school? Facing separation, maybe that child would opt for safer lunch choices. :dunno:

All that said, I'm really not a Nazi about peanut exposure -- in life, she's going to face it. We just need to make our best efforts to keep her safe, especially when she's in an environment where she's not closely monitored by a parent.

I'm another who wonders why this has become so much more prevalant than in the past.

[Brandi]

Hi Anne! I can actually say the same thing you did before. I'm so glad that Carter's school is not a peanut-free place. There is nobody who is allergic to peanuts there so we are very lucky! I'm sorry if you felt I was attacking you. I should clarify and say that I just had this discussion on a yahoo group with a bunch of local ladies and it made me very upset. I guess I"m still reeling from that discussion. One lady basically said that all children with allergies should just stay at home and be homeschooled; that they shouldn't be allowed into a public school because of their allergies! EEEEK! That made so many people upset. I so wish that this wasn't an issue for kids (or grown ups either). Our world is just a scary place sometimes, isn't it?!

And it really is very hard for people with "normal" kids to see through the eyes of a special needs kid's parents. It really is. And is that wrong? They just haven't experienced things in the same way and may not understand. I felt very differently than I do now about a lot of things. Heather having TS has really opened up my eyes to a whole new world. I think it's a good thing for me.

[Stacey]

Granted, I don't have a kid who will only eat PB&J... (Cole very much prefers it, but he'll eat other stuff. He's had to b/c of peanut-free classes in the past.) But it just seems to me that there are lots of other non-sandwich things kids could bring to school if they won't eat sandwiches other than PB&J. I fall on the side of not wanting to endanger the life of another kid just b/c mine is partial to PB&J. I think you need to err on the side of caution. I know I'd appreciate that if I had an allergic kid. Hell, I would be insane with paranoia if my kid were allergic. I know it.

I wonder what the PB-loving kids would say if you explained the sitch to them. Last year both my kids were in peanut-free classrooms. They both knew why they couldn't have it, and both were very willing to deal with it. (Cole was only 2YO at the time.) Maia was very concerned about foods she'd bring to school, often asking me to make sure they wouldn't make her friend sick.

If either of mine would have whined about it, they'd have gotten another simple explanation about how sick it could make a classmate and a very loving "suck it up." ;)

[Nichole]

Everybody just needs to work together and think of each other and care about all the other kids and it's a no-brainer.


I totally agree. :nod: I think it's a great opportunity to teach our kids about empathy and the Golden Rule.

IMO, there's a time and a place to fight for equal rights but when it's a life or death situation, all bets are off.

The daycare my boys go to is totally nut-free, but I don't know about Jackson's school. I've been meaning to ask about it, actually. I would assume that if there were any allergic kids in his class, we'd have heard about it. If there are, we will definitely not send anything in to jeopardize anyone's health.

I had no idea that the peanut protein lingers in the system so long after ingestion! I will remember that.

[Connie1222]

Jack's school is not nut-free and I'm thankful for that. Jack is very picky and PB & J (actually not the J :lol: ) is one of the few things he'll eat. I'm not even sure if his school has a nut-free table. BUT, I would definitely get on the program if it was. I would want the same understanding if it was my child.

[sheila]

Maggie's school isn't nut free. (clearly, they've let me in the building! :crazy: ) One of the camps she went to over the summer was, though, and she was ok with no PB at lunch. She asked why, but was ok when I told her that other kids might get sick.

As far as why peanut allergies are so much more prevalant these days, I really think it has to do with advances in medicine and early detection. I think that in generations prior, children who were allergic to peanuts were dead before they hit elementary school. It makes me so happy that there are so many people who have to deal with the inconvenience of finding new lunch options when I think about it that way.

My mom teaches in CT. Her school has been "latex free" for 5+ years. There is currently no one at the school allergice to latex. There was a student with an anaphalctic allergy to latex when they made the rule. When the student left, the administration, board of ed and lawyers decided to leave the precautions in place because it was easier to ban latex than to deal with the potential lawsuits if something happened to another child down the road. And in a world where someone sues a school so that her child can have her preferred lunch, I think it was a pretty smart decision.

[Clare]

Okay, let me reiterate before I'm tied to the proverbial stake here - at Caroline's school there is NO child who is so allergic they will die by being in smelling distance of peanut butter. I've never even heard of it myself, but I'm certain the school would have stricter protocols in place if there were. And I've never said peanut butter is the ONLY thing Caroline will eat, all others be damned. I'm not that stupid or that cruel, thanks. She eats plenty of other things, but when she asks for the peanut butter sandwich she prefers, since it is allowed at her school at this time, I give it to her.





I wasn't referring to you or Caroline with my posts. I was talking about the girl in Aidan's class that Alyssa told us about :) We are in the same situation as you - Harry's classroom isn't nut-free so he does take pb sandwiches to school. If the policy was to change however, then he would have to take something else. I do not think that my child's right to eat pb supercedes another child's right to live, but I think that the mother in Alyssa's example does think that. And I think the school was wrong to bow to her demands.

How do you handle the student who had P for breakfast and didn't wash well before coming to school? What about the kids who had P for lunch in the summer and then went to play on the same playground your child uses? Its not just having nuts at school that can be the problem. Unfortunately, this part is harder to police. I agree it is a terrifying situation.

You are right, this is the hardest part. I would hope that the schools with the anaphalactic children stress to parents that their kids are washed properly before coming to school, that they have anitbacterial wipes in the classroom and that the children need to use them on a regular basis.

A good friend of mine is a dance teacher. Several years ago she was complaining to me about this *crazy* mother whose child had a peanut allergy. The mother would bring antibacterial wipes to dance class and insist that every child use them before they went near her daughter. We thought she was a nutcase :crazy: until about 6 months later when my friend's daughter was diagnosed with peanut anaphalaxis. Once we started researching it we realised that the mother was doing the right thing. She was attempting to keep her child alive while socialising her. Yes these kids could be homeschooled and totally segregated from the rest of the world, but how long can that last? They are going to want to go out and play sport or join a gym and make friends at some stage. A documetary I watched about this showed that most of the anaphalactic deaths are actually teenagers who are being trusted to care for themselves. When the allergic child is young, everyone is looking out for them but when they get older they tend to rebel and eat peanuts and die :sad: So the argument (from Brandi's online discussion) that they should be kept home doesn't make sense, these children need to be out in the world from a young age learning how to live and deal with this.

[MrsPeacefrog]

How do you handle the student who had P for breakfast and didn't wash well before coming to school? What about the kids who had P for lunch in the summer and then went to play on the same playground your child uses? Its not just having nuts at school that can be the problem. Unfortunately, this part is harder to police. I agree it is a terrifying situation.

You can't help that, but that is my arguement. There are so many scenerios that are out of our control as it is, why add another one to it when we can easily fix it by restricting one small item from the environment :dunno:

Cami: To answer your question on how late these allergies can develop. I don't know the exact answer but I do know that my allergist told us that by age 5 if they have the allergy then they have it for life. We just had our yearly check up for Aiden where they do the skin prick test to check on the status of the allerigies. It showed up for the first time in 3 years to be now allergic to Almonds as well as the normal ones that we know about. He never had a reaction to that before, and now at 5.5yrs old it has appeared, so I am going to say that there is a chance that just because your child hasn't shown a reaction to something by the time they start school, it is still possible.


Lastly I want to say, I do allow Aiden to live a normal life, I have never treated him as special nor do I walk around with a sign over his head saying he has anaphylaxis. I went to the extreme with my posts just to prove a point and I think I was able to do that. Watching Aiden go through an anaphylactic reaction was and is the scariest thing I have ever gone through as a parent and thankfully the majority of you never have to experience that. But for those that do, we just can't understand the notion of causing such a stink over not being allowed to eat a certain product :dunno:

I agree with Stacey, there are so many different varieties of food out there other than sandwiches, I only send Aiden to school with sandwiches twice a week, the rest of the time he gets yoghurts, cheese and crackers, sultanas and so on.

[Jillian]

See I disagree with that. Her child isn't going to die by not having a peanut butter sandwich at lunchtime, but an allergic child could very well die from being around the same sandwich.

Now if there isn't any allergic children in the school then I say yes, let the kid have a pb sandwich. But if there is, then she should have to follow the rules.

I agree completely.

[Jillian]

I have to agree with Karri, Lisa, and Clare on this one - especially for the younger grades, once a kid is older they can protect themselves better, but to me a Kindergartener is still so little. I would hate to be think that my kid could die at school just b/c someone couldn't give up their PB&J for one meal.

:nod:

I'd also hate to have to explain if to my kid that there friend or heck, even there enemy, died because they were eating peanut butter...that would be a hard thing for a kid to deal with.

[Alyssa]

To me this is the same as the giving every child a trophy attitude. It's giving the child a sense of entitlement, that they have a right to eat what they want when they want no matter the consequence to somebody else. Isn't this a good opportunity to teach a child about compassion and thinking of others?.I don't see any correlation here. I hate, hate, hate the "all trophy" crap - but I also hate one-sided discrimination. Which is what I see this akin to. Again, I am only saying there should be a protocol in place to let a kid who only wants PB to have a safe place in the school to eat it and not fear exposing others, and to then take precautions to clean her after. Because as has been pointed out, they are not saying no PB at home and god knows it could be tracked in from someone's breakfast.

(And again, for the record, I'm not sending PB w/ my kid. I'm just arguing the point. We have not been told of life-threatening PB allergies but I'm not going to be the one who risks it.)

What if the teacher wanted to have a cigarette in the classroom? Shouldn't she be allowed to because she has rights and it doesn't matter if her right is detrimental to the children's health? Same thing IMO.And wow - I can't even remotely think that is the same thing. That is a terrible behavoir that an adult teacher should know better than to do. The other kid is a little kid who can't think beyond eating a food she likes. :dunno:

[Jillian]

You can develop allergies at any age, the most common is obvious on the first/second exposure to a food when a baby/toddler/young kid, but then after that the most common age to develop new allergies are post-menapausal women, then girls during puberty, then boys during puberty, but really, you can develop an allergy at any time. My grandma developed a severe shell fish allergy at 72.

[Karly]

So last night at the first PTO meeting, I met the mother of the kid who's allergic to latex. She said most people with latex allergies get hives, but he gets an anaphylactic reaction, which apparently is very rare.

To me, my kid can learn something from this: sometimes we do things that aren't the most fun for us, because it's better for someone else.

Tyrus is totally okay with not taking trail mix or peanut butter crackers to school because he knows that it can make other kids sick. He's fine with that, and it's not an issue. And according to the principal last night, his school isn't nut-free! Tyrus just doesn't want to make someone else sick, so we're treating it as if it is nut-free.

If it were my kid who was allergic, I'd be terrified to send them off each day. But, it's not my kid, so if I can do something to help ease the fear of another parent, then I'm okay with that.

[Alyssa]

If there's no one allergic, then allow the foods.Although in thinking about this...what if there are allergic silbings at home - isn't it just as risky to have their siblings exposed if the allergens linger?

[Karly]

Maybe we should just ban peanuts? :scan: :bolt:

[Alyssa]

Maybe we should just ban peanuts? :scan: :bolt:Maybe we should fund more research to find out why the hell there are so many more peanut allergies these days!!!!

ETA - I did some research and it sounds like a peanut vaccination is in the works. :woa: And here is a theory I saw in several places: researchers theorized that peanut allergies are more prevalent in the United States because dry-roasting, the high-temperature method used to process nuts here, including for peanut butter, makes the peanuts more allergenic than using them in other ways. According to the Jaffe Food Allergy Institute at Mount Sinai, though per capita consumption of peanuts in China is about the same as in the United States, there are virtually no peanut allergies Although that doesn't explain why it's becoming more common...

[Brandi]

- regarding smoking in the classroom -
And wow - I can't even remotely think that is the same thing. That is a terrible behavoir that an adult teacher should know better than to do. The other kid is a little kid who can't think beyond eating a food she likes. :dunno:


Yes, exactly. This is why we as adults just have to put our foot down and say "I'm sorry sweetie, but if you eat a pb&j sandwhich your friend may die." No, they may not be able to grasp the severity of the situation, but I bet if we explain it to our children who can understand, they would choose to keep their classmates safe instead of putting them in danger just because they want their pb&j.

I feel like this issue has an easy answer to it. But, if things progress and get worse with allergies in our world, it may not be so clear. You can't ban everything, but to me, this just seems so simple.

[Alyssa]

Yeah, but Brandi...my whole argument is not to let a kid who really wants PB&J to just eat in the middle of the cafeteria...but why not let them have a safe haven in the school to do so, where they can then wash/remove any traces of PB? It seems just as safe to do that as to allow kids to come in to school who could have PB on the hands, clothes, etc. :dunno:

And something I said before - at Aidan's school there are more strict PB-free rooms and they all have industrial-size containers of antibacterial wipes in them - anyone entering the room has to use them. That to me is a really good practice for all rooms, but I'm glad they're doing it in those rooms where they have more known allergies (so I assume).

[Brandi]

Yeah, but Brandi...my whole argument is not to let a kid who really wants PB&J to just eat in the middle of the cafeteria...but why not let them have a safe haven in the school to do so, where they can then wash/remove any traces of PB? It seems just as safe to do that as to allow kids to come in to school who could have PB on the hands, clothes, etc. :dunno:

I see your point here. I don't know enough about allergies (mainly peanut allergies) to know if that's safe. But, I see what you are saying in regards to bringing peanut oil from home on your hands. It's a very difficult situation.

But, if they let this one little girl eat peanut butter at lunch, they are ultimately going to have to let every single person eat peanut butter for lunch because it wouldn't be fair to only allow her to eat it because she's so picky, right? So, I guess they are now back to only one table that is peanut-free, and that seems like it's still too dangerous for me. I don't know. I'm not a parent of a child with a nut allergy, so I guess I don't really know the ins and outs of it all.

But, yes, I do see your point. I'll still disagree though and say I think nobody should eat it at school. Just to argue ;)

[Clare]

I don't see any correlation here. I hate, hate, hate the "all trophy" crap - but I also hate one-sided discrimination. Which is what I see this akin to. Again, I am only saying there should be a protocol in place to let a kid who only wants PB to have a safe place in the school to eat it and not fear exposing others, and to then take precautions to clean her after. Because as has been pointed out, they are not saying no PB at home and god knows it could be tracked in from someone's breakfast.

(And again, for the record, I'm not sending PB w/ my kid. I'm just arguing the point. We have not been told of life-threatening PB allergies but I'm not going to be the one who risks it.)
And wow - I can't even remotely think that is the same thing. That is a terrible behavoir that an adult teacher should know better than to do. The other kid is a little kid who can't think beyond eating a food she likes. :dunno:

I guess we'll never agree on this issue. I don't see it as discrimination at all. I see it as the community working together to keep a child safe and alive.

As for the smoking analogy - it's got nothing to do with it being adults vs children. It's about "rights". If you say a child has the right to eat what she wants when she wants then a smoker should also have the right to smoke when and where they want. I think that Brandi's gun analogy was better. A peanut can be a deadly weapon, just like a gun or a cigarette. So if you can't bring guns or cigarettes into the classroom, then you shouldn't be able to bring peanut products if they pose a threat either.

[MrsPeacefrog]

Yeah, but Brandi...my whole argument is not to let a kid who really wants PB&J to just eat in the middle of the cafeteria...but why not let them have a safe haven in the school to do so, where they can then wash/remove any traces of PB? It seems just as safe to do that as to allow kids to come in to school who could have PB on the hands, clothes, etc. :dunno:


I can't believe that there would be a child in this world that CAN'T do with out PB so bad they need to have a special room to eat it in, is it just me or does this sound totally ridiculous!!! (not saying you are ridiculous Alyssa :crazy: but the scenerio)

Don't we all have to say no to our children sometimes? Obviously this child isn't living by eating soley PB, so I can't see the point of this argument. :dunno: They can have it for breakfast and they can have it for dinner. To me this is just sounding more and more like a civil rights argument rather than the child actually NEEDING PB. I think it's totally over the top.

Would we be having this same argument about sugar free schools (which are out there now), the ones that soley sell fruit and healthy foods in their caffateria's? would we be arguing that our child has a right to eat chocolate and chips so therefore they should get a special room to eat it in or else they will throw a tantrum?

Also, Aiden isn't just allergic to peanuts he is allergic to tree nuts, which means cashew, pistacchio, almonds etc, I think too much emphasis on just PB is made because even a child bringing in a box of sultanas mixed with almonds can cause the same effect on Aiden.

[sheila]

Yeah, but Brandi...my whole argument is not to let a kid who really wants PB&J to just eat in the middle of the cafeteria...but why not let them have a safe haven in the school to do so, where they can then wash/remove any traces of PB? It seems just as safe to do that as to allow kids to come in to school who could have PB on the hands, clothes, etc. :dunno:

I do see this argument as similar on the rights front to the smoking issue. It really isn't any different than suggesting that teachers, who have the right to smoke, should have access to a smoking room within the confines of the school. They stop smoking and wash their hands when they leave, but still. Most schools don't even allow their teachers to smoke on the school property let alone in the building. I think it is fair to ask that we make the effort to do the right thing.



On the sugar front, I think many schools are starting to try to reduce the amount of sugar & fat they serve in school in favor of healthier alternatives. And I would love to see that process sped up. (also, I'd love to see uniforms at all schools, but that is just me)

[Jayne]

I can't believe that there would be a child in this world that CAN'T do with out PB so bad they need to have a special room to eat it in, is it just me or does this sound totally ridiculous!!! (not saying you are ridiculous Alyssa :crazy: but the scenerio)



I have to jump in here on this. Tylor is one of those kids who HAD to eat PB. We had tried to give him every sort of protein we could and he would not eat it. And the fact that people say "They will eat when they are hungry" Well ..NOT ALWAYS TRUE. Our Doctor told him to have him eat PB to help him gain weight because it is something he would eat. Now that he is older he will eat chicken and steak finally but he just wouldn't before and he lost a lot of weight and had some major issues until we started doing pb for him.

If our school had a Nut-free stand I suppose we would just give it to him at home but he still to this day takes pb every single day. He can live without it but he doesn't have to so we don't make him. (AND HE IS 12)

I think that there should be a place that a child could eat pb safely if they wanted it and I see Alyssa's point all the way. As for smoking I don't think it even comes close to this arguement not to mention Smoking is banned in all public buildings in the entire state of Ohio so it would never be an issue.

I am glad we haven't encountered any pb allergies with either Tylor or Alyssa in school. If we did we would deal with them but for now they are safe with taking what they need to in their lunches.

[Clare]

I have to jump in here on this. Tylor is one of those kids who HAD to eat PB. We had tried to give him every sort of protein we could and he would not eat it. And the fact that people say "They will eat when they are hungry" Well ..NOT ALWAYS TRUE. Our Doctor told him to have him eat PB to help him gain weight because it is something he would eat. .

Did he have to eat it between 9am and 3pm? I seriously doubt it. Okay, so his dr said he needs to eat peanut butter, so give him a whole jar of it when he gets home from school! There isn't any reason for him to eat it at school where it might endanger another child's life!

[Jayne]

And I didn't say he did Clare. But he can because we don't have an issue at our schools. I was just pointing out that some kids do need to eat it for the protein in it and they may eat it for Breakfast before they come to school and have parents who don't make sure they have washed their hands. There is always the what if's and the schools don't make every child wash their hands before they come in the door so it is always there. I don't want to ever see a child hurt because of something someone ate however it won't always be avoided and so I think it is an honest effort of a school to try and make it right for ALL children.

Like I said..Tylor can eat it when he gets home and would if we had the issue here but we don't.

[gulp!]

I agree with Clare's point, though. A child can make it through 6 hrs a day without eating peanut butter.

Alyssa, I get your point, and I guess that technically, a kid should be given the opportunity to sit, completely segregated from the rest of the school, to eat a PB sandwich. But talk about the social damage that would cause that kid. Isolated from the rest of their peers. I'd say to that mom who thinks that her kid absolutely HAS to be able to eat PB in school, "great. Go ahead. But how is that going to affect the rest of your child's experience in school?" Is she really willing to make her kid an outcast just b/c she wants to spoil her child and let her eat PB during the day?

But what I really want to know is, what the hell is a sultana? :lol:

[Karly]

Stef, I wanna know that, too! :lol:

[LISA]

I'm pretty sure I've seen Sultana's packaged here ..pretty sure they are raisons :)

[Kristen]

I heard the other day about almond butter being a great replacement in this situation (unless of course you are allergic to that as well or your school banned all "butterfied" products.) I wanted to check and see if our local grocery carried any PJ alternatives. Can you believe a jar of almond butter at my local store is $12! This was a standard jar like every other jar in the PB aisle. WOW!

[Missy&Maggie]

We have tried the sunflower seed butter and soy butter here. Maggie is allergic to all nuts so almond is out. I prefer the sunflower butter to the soy. They had soy butter in the PB section at our local supermarket for $4, and I got the sunflower seed butter at Trader Joe's for about the same price.

[gulp!]

I agree, Missy- I think soy butter is way too thick. Sunflower butter is pretty decent, especially if you like the taste of sunflower seeds. We buy Sunbutter brand, and I prefer the one with the yellow top (creamy). I don't know offhand how much it costs, but I don't think it was outrageous like $12!

[LISA]

Next time I go to the bulk food store I'm going to see if they carry the peaunut butter replacements and maybe get a small batch to try out for myself for the heck of it..

[Alyssa]

I’ve thought more about Clare’s smoking analogy and I think my original reaction was wrong. There is a correlation to both actions being wrong by being done in public – although the smoking one is also illegal in many places. The peanut eating in a public space that has been deemed peanut-free is just, arguably, immoral.

That said…the entire crux of my argument is based on equal civil liberties. I do still feel that people have a right to eat peanut butter in schools – in private, where they can clean up to minimize exposure. And you know what? I think teachers should have the right to smoke in school, in private to minimize exposure.

I’m not saying I agree with either action. But I do think people have a right to do both in a public school.

[Karri]

wow. that's a strong statement that'll get some big tomatoes thrown at you.
and since we're not talking about that here, i won't go there.

[Alyssa]

wow. that's a strong statement that'll get some big tomatoes thrown at you.
and since we're not talking about that here, i won't go there.Not talking about what? Smoking?

Let me make it clear, for whatever it's worth. I'm in no way advocating smoking or eating PB in a nut-free school. I think both are dumb choices and in no way choices I would make. But it's a free country and these are public, tax-funded buildings and I feel like people should have a choice to do whatever they want in such places, albeit separate, distinctly labeled spots in these buildings.

[kalm]

Mostly off topic, but did you know the high school I attended in Ohio had a students' smoking lounge? If you were over age 18 and had your parents' permission, you were allowed to smoke in a specified area of the school during lunch breaks and study halls.

That blows my mind to think about it.

Back to the regularlly scheduled debate.

[Michele]

My HS had a smoking lounge too. I was closed before I started HS, but still, that idea blows my mind too.

[Connie1222]

We had a smoking yard in high school. Anyone could smoke out there during lunch time, but only seniors could smoke whenever they wanted. I heard they did away with that now.

[gulp!]

My high school had one too. :nod:

[Michal]

I’ve thought more about Clare’s smoking analogy and I think my original reaction was wrong. There is a correlation to both actions being wrong by being done in public – although the smoking one is also illegal in many places. The peanut eating in a public space that has been deemed peanut-free is just, arguably, immoral.

That said…the entire crux of my argument is based on equal civil liberties. I do still feel that people have a right to eat peanut butter in schools – in private, where they can clean up to minimize exposure. And you know what? I think teachers should have the right to smoke in school, in private to minimize exposure.

I’m not saying I agree with either action. But I do think people have a right to do both in a public school.

Alyssa, I do not want you to think that this is a personal attack as I know you are not advocating the above quote, but stating it for argument's sake :awink:

See now, I believe my rights end where another's begin. I don't believe in 'equal rights', if everything in this life was equal then there would not be peanut allergies or lung cancer, but unfortunately some people suffer with it while others do not. I do not believe that is a person's RIGHT to be able to do whatever they feel like doing, when they are harming someone while doing it. I feel that this attitude of entitlement breeds selfishness, I mean what is so wrong with thinking of the other person? or of putting someone else's needs before your own? It's called building CHARACTER. If my child puts up a big fight for not being able to have a PB and J sandwich for lunch because their friend might get sick, then I need to apologize to my child because I obviously did nto teach them how to think beyond themself.

[sheila]

But it's a free country and these are public, tax-funded buildings and I feel like people should have a choice to do whatever they want in such places, albeit separate, distinctly labeled spots in these buildings.

So you're advocating.... seperate but equal?

ETA:
People don't have the choice to do whatever they want in a public school. Many public schools have dress codes. Most (if not all) have anti drug policies which include legal substances as well as policies against weapons on the premeses. Then, there is always the subject of school prayer. With the amount of debate surrounding that one, I think it is pretty clear that people in general are not happy with any comprimises available.

[Missy]

I want to live in a world where people truly care about other people, and doing what is good and helpful for others is more important that what is "right" according to civil liberties, laws, etc. Just because one can do something doesn't mean one should. So for me, that is what all of this boils down to, let's act like every child in in the class/school could be OUR child, and make decisions accordingly. Of course, this is far from realistic, but if most people really cared about others, or at least tried to, as much as they care about themselves, many of these problems would be non-issues. The mother of the pb-only child was saying her daughter's needs are more important than the needs of the allergic child. Obviously, the school said the needs of the allergic child are more important than the needs of the other children, but one only needs to take a step back and look at the individual needs one versus the other to see the obvious GREATER need. The need for a nut-free school/table/class is far more important than the need to eat only a pb&j sandwich at lunch every day.

If this mother had her daughter who only eats pb&j, but then had a younger child who, they suddenly discovered, had a severe peanut/nut allergy, would she continue to allow the peanut butter in her house, on her plates and utencils, on her table, on her daughter's skin, clothes, etc? I highly doubt it. One strict talking-to from the doctor about what could happen to her other child if her daughter doesn't stop eating peanut butter would do the trick. If this mother thought of the child in her daughter's class as one of her own, it wouldn't be an issue, she would buy sun-butter for the sandwiches or make her daughter fun raisin faces on bread with cream cheese and approach it all as a fun adventure in lunch food. It just all seems very self-centered to me. Yes, of course, technically, if the allergic child has the right to be in a nut-free environment, then the pb kid has the right to be in a nut-environment (with precautions for the allergic child, of course). What it really comes down to so everyone's rights are satisfied is there should be one school for nut-frees, and one for nut-eaters. And, heck, one for those allergic to strawberries, and one for those allergic to grass, and one for those who don't like green foods on Tuesdays...ok, I'm being silly, but you get my point. Separate but equal is what we're talking about here, folks. And I'm not ok with that. Life is a give and take. Sometimes you can take, sometimes you NEED to take, and most the time you must give. And give. And give. And that's how it always is, in public places, in private places, everywhere. I want my children to get used to doing what's kind and helpful for others from the get-go, even if it's their "right" to do otherwise. KWIM?

Thanks, all, for a very thought-provoking discussion! :)

[Missy]

OMG, Sheila, we posted the same thought at the same time :lol: Great minds think alike :)

[Michal]

Missy, I agree with you. I think that the mother of the child who would only eat pb&j is just not "getting" it, if it were child in danger then I'm sure her stance would change quickly.

[Alyssa]

So you're advocating.... seperate but equal?
Hmmm. I guess yes. But it's a choice in this case...not dictated like racial segregation was. So that is to say, if you want to do X which has been determined to not be good for the population as a whole, then we will provide you a safe space to do that. I can see it being a slippery slope though.

[Alyssa]

If this mother had her daughter who only eats pb&j, but then had a younger child who, they suddenly discovered, had a severe peanut/nut allergy, would she continue to allow the peanut butter in her house, on her plates and utencils, on her table, on her daughter's skin, clothes, etc? I highly doubt it. :)But again...no part of at least my argument is people should be allowed to "win" a case to eat in the general population of the school...but instead to be provided a safe spot in which to engage in such activity and also have it be mandated at this young age to have someone help them clean them up to do their best to remove any trace of peanut. Something that is not being done when kids are walking into school in the morning, possibly just having eaten PB on a bagel or the like.

[LISA]

I don't understand all the arguing about peanuts :dunno: if tomorrow you get a letter sent home from your childs school explaining that there is a child that has a peanut allergy..whether in your childs class or in another grade that your child might potentially have contact with during recess..would you still send the sandwich to school? I would have no problem making something else..

[Alyssa]

Lisa, I am not sending peanut products to school with Aidan at all since he goes to a a peanut-free school. (Except I inadvertantly sent a granola bar with him earlier this week when I didn't study the packaging close enough.) I don't have a problem following the rule - although in our school, they haven't exactly banned peanut products, but it's a very, very strong suggestion. (Multiple notes sent home, big signs when you enter the school, etc.)

I'm simply arguing what I see as a civil rights point for someone who doesn't want to follow the suggestion. I don't see it as fair discrimination.

[LISA]

I do see what your saying.. I do but it's really not worth arguing a mute point.. kwim? I would never be like that mom and fight for my childs right to have a peanut butter sandwich( but you know what come to think of it.. my mom is/was that kind of person..she wouldn't do it for my sake it would be to satisfy her.."no one tells me what to do" sense of pride..)

[MrsPeacefrog]

Hmmm. I guess yes. But it's a choice in this case...not dictated like racial segregation was. So that is to say, if you want to do X which has been determined to not be good for the population as a whole, then we will provide you a safe space to do that. I can see it being a slippery slope though.

It is an extreme slippery slope. In Sydney they have trialed and are running heroin injecting rooms. The aim was "they are going to do it anyway so why not give them a safe place to do it and get it off the streets where people can be harmed by syringes lying aorund" Drug addicts can go in, inject their heroin and leave with out any arrests or ill effect (other than taking the drug itself) that will happen to them.

:dunno: Yes they have the right to do what they want, but should society cater to that right?

We don't have as much of a "civil rights issue" here in Australia that you seem to have over there. People are generally a lot more accepting of laws knowing that they have been put in place for a reason and ultimately whether you agree with them or not, they are there to protect the greater population ie; going back to random breath testing for drink drivers. Yes I hate that my drive has been interupted with a random test but maybe out of the 20 people tested one of those were drunk and taken off the road to make it safer for me to drive on.

I think the civil rights movement can be taken to literally and too far at times.


Jayne: strike me down as someone who is completely shocked that no other protien on this planet was found for Tylor to eat. I am not saying I don't believe you, because obviously if that is what you were doing then that is what you were doing, but I just can't believe the only protien a child would eat was PB :dunno: Did he not eat cheese, eggs, milk, yoghurt, beans and so on other than meats? Having milk on your cereal, cheese on a pizza, yoghurt or custard for dessert is well and truly ample protien or did he not eat any of those things?

[Nichole]

I'm not touching the smoking thing, either. *tucking 10 foot pole back into my pocket* :lol:

Peanut butter isn't even really that great of a source of protein when you factor in its very high fat content. There are healthier and richer sources of protein.

I also think it's doing a kid a disservice to completely cater to such strict food pickiness. Sure, kids don't like a lot of foods when they first taste them, but I think it's a parent's job to continue to expose them to a wide variety of foods to expand their palates. It's not healthy for anyone to live on a limited selection of food.

[~Deborah~]

You can develop allergies at any age, the most common is obvious on the first/second exposure to a food when a baby/toddler/young kid, but then after that the most common age to develop new allergies are post-menapausal women, then girls during puberty, then boys during puberty, but really, you can develop an allergy at any time. My grandma developed a severe shell fish allergy at 72.

I became allergic at 17 :(

[Clare]

And I didn't say he did Clare. But he can because we don't have an issue at our schools. I was just pointing out that some kids do need to eat it for the protein in it and they may eat it for Breakfast before they come to school and have parents who don't make sure they have washed their hands. There is always the what if's and the schools don't make every child wash their hands before they come in the door so it is always there. I don't want to ever see a child hurt because of something someone ate however it won't always be avoided and so I think it is an honest effort of a school to try and make it right for ALL children.

Like I said..Tylor can eat it when he gets home and would if we had the issue here but we don't.

Well, if there was an allergic child at school and peanut products were banned, I would expect you to be a responsible and caring parent and feed him peanut butter at home, wash his hands and face thoroughly and brush his teeth before sending him to school.

Nothing is failsafe, of course there is a chance that a child who eats pb for breakfast doesn't wash his hands properly before going to school. But we can decrease the chance of exposure by keeping the product out of the school in the first place.

[Clare]

But again...no part of at least my argument is people should be allowed to "win" a case to eat in the general population of the school...but instead to be provided a safe spot in which to engage in such activity and also have it be mandated at this young age to have someone help them clean them up to do their best to remove any trace of peanut. Something that is not being done when kids are walking into school in the morning, possibly just having eaten PB on a bagel or the like.

So if a child attended a school with uniforms but didn't want to wear the uniform, do you think it's their civil right not to wear it? Should the parent petition the school to allow their child to wear whatever they want?

I think that if a child/parent doesn't like the rules of a school then they should find anothe school.

[Clare]

Serial posting...

We've had the sultana discussion before :lol: A sultana is either a) similiar to a raisin or b) the wife of a Sultan :) I'm pretty sure that Deb was referring to the dried fruit variety :giggle:

[debstar]

I didn't realise that 'sultana' was an Australian term. They are smaller than our raisons.

http://tbn0.google.com/images?q=tbn:03lj56ccQaNVIM:http://www.sahravi.com/images/raisins/iranian-sultana-raisins.jpg

[LISA]

Doesn't matter what you call them..they are gross :dead:

[Alyssa]

It is an extreme slippery slope. In Sydney they have trialed and are running heroin injecting rooms. The aim was "they are going to do it anyway so why not give them a safe place to do it and get it off the streets where people can be harmed by syringes lying aorund" Drug addicts can go in, inject their heroin and leave with out any arrests or ill effect (other than taking the drug itself) that will happen to them.

:dunno: Yes they have the right to do what they want, but should society cater to that right?
Plain and simple: drugs are illegal. Peanut butter is not. One thing is catering to helping make an illegal activity safer, the other is just making an argument for a safe place for a kid to eat a food. Slippery slope or not, you can't compare the two.

[Alyssa]

So if a child attended a school with uniforms but didn't want to wear the uniform, do you think it's their civil right not to wear it? Should the parent petition the school to allow their child to wear whatever they want?

I think that if a child/parent doesn't like the rules of a school then they should find anothe school.I'll admit this question stumps me a little. Since my entire point is there is a rule but all I'm saying is there should be a safe place to go around that rule. I wouldn't feel that way about a uniform rule. But that sounds like a weak argument, I'll admit that. If I think of something better, I'll come back. :) (I'd love school uniforms, btw.)

Clearly we're not going to agree on this. So, I'll try to just let this lie. Frankly, I am very, very surprised I'm this in the minority about this. :dunno: As I've said, I am not some ruthless, screw the peanut allergies person. I get it. I truly do. I don't send peanut products to school w/ my son b/c they've asked me not to and I can accept that - and I do treat it as an opportunity to exposure to other stuff. I would never let my child's lunch risk another child's health. That's just dumb. Frankly, I don't know why anyone wouldn't do that. But for me this whole thing is about fairness and the decision about what to do with one's own body - peanuts, smoking, abortion. It's all lumped in for me. (How's that for possibly ratcheting up the discussion w/out really meaning to. Honestly. But I had to say it, because I mean it.)

[MrsPeacefrog]

Yes I know that, Alyssa. I was just trying to point out how slippery the slope gets. :awink:

[Michal]

But for me this whole thing is about fairness and the decision about what to do with one's own body - peanuts, smoking, abortion. It's all lumped in for me. (How's that for possibly ratcheting up the discussion w/out really meaning to. Honestly. But I had to say it, because I mean it.)

I agree, a person should be free to do what they wish with their own body, unless it infringes upon someone else's right to be healthy. No is saying that a person can't eat peanut butter anymore or has to quit smoking, just that they need to do it somewhere else.

[Alyssa]

I agree, a person should be free to do what they wish with their own body, unless it infringes upon someone else's right to be healthy. No is saying that a person can't eat peanut butter anymore or has to quit smoking, just that they need to do it somewhere else.Which has been my point from the beginning. They can eat it in a safe place in the school where they can be washed after Or smoke in a safe place in the school.

[Alyssa]

I agree, a person should be free to do what they wish with their own body, unless it infringes upon someone else's right to be healthy. No is saying that a person can't eat peanut butter anymore or has to quit smoking, just that they need to do it somewhere else.Which has been my point from the beginning. They can eat it in a safe place in the school where they can be washed after Or smoke in a safe place in the school.

[Karri]

but there is no such thing as "smoking in a safe place" when it comes to smoking in a building w/ other people in there.

[Michal]

I think even being in the school is not okay. I mean my neighbour smokes and I can't even go into my backyard because the smell is so strong, I close the windows yet I still know as soon as she lights up because I am sensitive to it. I can't see that having a separate room in the school for smokers would not affect others especially because of the strong odor associated with it. Same with an allergy, if someone were to eat a PB&J sandwich in another "safe room" and knowing that the peanut protein lingers for long after it's digested then it is still risking and affecting those that are vulnerable to it. What I said before is that my rights end where another's begin, and a person's right to be healthy supercedes my right to ''do what I want".

Anyway I know none of us are going to actually put up a fight if we were told that our child's school was nut free, but it's an interesting argument nonetheless.

[Alyssa]

but there is no such thing as "smoking in a safe place" when it comes to smoking in a building w/ other people in there.What I might not have made clear is that I think there should be a seperate teacher's lounge for those that want to smoke and those that don't. Just like a lunchroom for those that want PB and those that can't be exposed. (Although, frankly - in both cases I think you just make a small area for the PB eaters and the smokers. Doesn't have to be equal size.) So anyone who went into those areas enters at their own risk.

[Alyssa]

if someone were to eat a PB&J sandwich in another "safe room" and knowing that the peanut protein lingers for long after it's digested then it is still risking and affecting those that are vulnerable to it. What I said before is that my rights end where another's begin, and a person's right to be healthy supercedes my right to ''do what I want". But since no one is banning PB outside of school, it's just as much of a risk that people are going to come into the school w/ traces of PB on them. At least this way there would be a concerted effort to remove the PB unlike after breakfast and before someone hops on the school bus with stuff on them.

[Nichole]

Unless those teachers are showering and changing clothes, those that smoke in that separate room will still be carrying back with them toxic chemicals that linger on the surfaces that cigarette smoke comes in contact with (their hair, skin, clothes, etc). That's akin to the kids eating in the safely segregated peanut room not cleaning themselves after eating their pb&j sandwiches, and isn't really all that safe, IMO.

I agree with Michal - my rights end where someone else's begin. If my right affects someone else's safety or health, then I don't think it's fair or right to demand it at the expense of others. I can't equate the right to Choice with the right to eat peanut butter or the right to smoke, because those latter choices can directly affect the health of someone next to me. My choosing to have an abortion would not. And my eating a pb&j or not will not have lifelong effects for me, unlike choosing to remain pregnant. [/major tangent]

[Michal]

Yes, you can't control everything going on around your child's enviroment, but I would want to be in control of it as much as I can. If it were my child that had the severe nut allergy I would want the school to be completely nut free, if it wasn't, then I would find another school that was. You can only do as much as you can do, and the rest of the time I would hope and pray for other parents to be understanding and do their part in keeping the area nut free as well.

[Alyssa]

Unless those teachers are showering and changing clothes, those that smoke in that separate room will still be carrying back with them toxic chemicals that linger on the surfaces that cigarette smoke comes in contact with (their hair, skin, clothes, etc). That's akin to the kids eating in the safely segregated peanut room not cleaning themselves after eating their pb&j sandwiches, and isn't really all that safe, IMO.But what is stopping them from smoking in their car immediately before school? Just like what is stopping kids from eating PB and not washing their hands before they come to school?

[MrsPeacefrog]

But what is stopping them from smoking in their car immediately before school? Just like what is stopping kids from eating PB and not washing their hands before they come to school?

Absolutely nothing! But for those 6 hours in the day while my son is in someone elses care, I can rest assured my son won't be exposed to any NEW traces and that is all I can ask for. The rest of the time it's on my watch and my responsibility to keep an eye on him.

[haydee]

The "nut issue" must be a regional thing. We don't have that issue at dd's school and I don't know of any friends or cousins (and we have loads) that suffer from nut-allergies. The school has never mentioned anything about refraining from nuts. We have no restrictions on what dd can take to school for lunch. They do request parents not to send sugary stuff as they all get hyper-active, but it's not a rule. DD has a friend in class who is diabetic, and they informed us if we're sending goodies for birthdays to please keep her in mind and send her something suitable for diabetics.

The big problem we face is HIV/Aids. According to law, the school is not allowed to make any child's HIV status known. The teachers have to know who is HIV positive, but the kids are not allowed to know. So we have to teach and train our kids from a very young age not to help a friend with a nose bleed or touch someone who is bleeding etc...

[pam]

How about a what if? Lets say one child eats PB in the approved PB area. There is another child in their class who is severly allergic. Lets also say that the PB eating child gets a small amount on his/her own clothing & nobody notices. When children are young they just don't notice things like this. I used to wipe stuff off onto my sleeve when I was little :blush: I'm sure I'm not the only one. It seems to me to allow it is an accident waiting to happen if you trust the already overburdened teachers to take the time to assist the child to wash up. How can they reasonably assure that no PB makes it back into the classroom?