Turning over a new leaf

[Karri]

I thought I would start a journal here to document my journey I am about to embark on :)

I met with a psychotherapist and am joining a 10 week anger management therapy group that he leads, starting this Monday.

I am scared, but excited. I don't like who I am, but I don't know how to change it. I grew up in a yelling house and that's how I know how to react. So this group is going to focus on how to curb your anger and then when you do get angry, how to deal with it in a more constructive way.

[stass]

Congratulations! :hug99:
I think therapy is a great thing to do for yourself and your kids!:nod:

[Dennis]

Karri, it's awesome that you are doing this. The hardest part is recognizing the problem and figuring out what to do about it. I wish you all the best.

Dennis

[Shanna]

I am reallllly interested in your anger management group. I'd like to try to find one around here. I think that would help me alot :nod:

I was raised in a yelling household as well and I really don't like how I tend to verbally fly off the handle. I'm very interested in following this journal. :)

[schwanda]

Wow Karri! That's really great. I hope this is a growth experience for you!

Amanda

[Bridget]

Karri I am so proud of you (for everything: posting this, speaking out, "doing" something, etc.). :bowdown:

I look forward to reading this and possibly learning a thing or too along with you. I could use a few anger management tips myself.

:hug99:

[Bonnie]

Karri, I am very interested in your journey as well. I too come from a yelling house, and while I don't yell at my kids, I do yell at my husband, and I would like to stop, so I hope to learn from you and gain strength from your strength, if that makes sense. I am really amazed and pretty much awe struck at your courage.

[Girlo]

This is great, Karri! :hug99: I don't know you IRL and can't vouch for how you are....but if you feel like this is a part of your life that could stand some improvement, then taking this step is fantastic!!

Change does take a tremendous amount of courage, as Bonnie said, and taking a cold, hard look at yourself is the hardest part. It sounds like you're already there. :hug99: I was raised in a hitting house (as well as yelling), and I vowed that I would NEVER pass the torch on that one. I spent 20 years overcoming my impulses before having kids, and the reality of having a child really challenges all that work. :)

You can totally do this! You are intelligent and I have a real respect for your views on things. I admire your no-nonsense approach to life. :hug99: I'm interested to follow your progress.

[Shel]

You go girl :up:


I was also raised in a yelling household (heck, my dad still yells at me :rolleyes: ) and I have to work very hard at watching what I do because I tend to follow in that pattern. It's going to be interesting for me to follow along in your journal.

[Trish]

Good for you! I'm so proud of you for taking this step :hug99:

I'm another who was raised in a yelling household and I feel that I yell at my boys too much sometimes, so I'm anxious to hear any tips.

[Karin]

Good for you, Karri! I think it's great that you're seeking advice that you feel you can grow and benefit from. I sometimes yell, too, both at my son and my husband when I'm angry. Count me in as another who'd be interested in what you learn and any advice you'd be willing to share. Best of luck to you! :hug99:

[Lynn]

Good for you, Karri! I think it's great that you've recognized it to be a problem and are working hard to make a change. You rock! :bowdown:

[Karri]

Aw, thanks for the support, everyone :)

Shannon - your comment about how you worked on your demons before you had a child got me thinking. I thought I had everything under control and I did when it was just Aidan. But things have not been 'right' with me since I've had the twins. Being on an antidepressant has helped some of my issues, but its not the miracle cure.
Having my 5 year old say, "mommy, don't yell at them." or "please don't be mad, mommy." kills me. And after I yell, I feel awful and know that it was pointless and think, "why the hell did I just lose my temper over something so trivial?" So I knew I had to do something about it. I can't have my kids have memories of their childhood of mommy yelling all the time :(

The therapist said that its a great mix of people in this group...a few SAHMs, some professionals, some blue collar workers. No criminals (which is what I had in my mind. people who were arrested for domestic violence or something and forced to go into anger management counseling :lol: )

[gulp!]

Go, Karri! :clap: Good or you. Like others, I'm glad you are doing a public journal for this, b/c I know I can definitely use some tips on keeping my anger to a minimum. It's hard when there's chaos (i.e. kids) all around you. :)

[Joan]

Good luck Karri! I admire your strength to share this challenge. You will not only help youself and family, but help others who read and learn from your experience.

[mrs.knip]

Good Luck Karri! I am another mom who uses yelling too much and wish I knew better strategies that would work.

[Michele]

I thought of you today when I totally lost it on Jackson when he hid the book I was supposed to read to him, to put off going to bed. :blush:

I'm very interested in hearing in what you learn.

Good for you for doing this!

[Girlo]

Karri - you do have a good point about mulitiple kids. I have it pretty easy right now with just the one....and an easy one at that!

What was scary to me - and inspired my wait to be a parent - were my gut impulses. :( There was a time when my solution to a crying baby was to throw it against a wall - hard. :( Now....I NEVER did this. But, when I'd hear a crying baby that would be what would pop into my head first as a solution. That terrified the crap out of me (and made me grateful for the freedom of choice that women have right now) and made me realize that before I EVER dipped my toes into the parent pool, I had a lot of work to do.

I did lots of reading....talking with parents I admired....meditation.....and just dealing with my demons in general. I found LOTS of areas of my life that needed improvement (and I'm still finding them...that'll be a lifelong project to be sure :lol: ). As I became happier with myself as a person, I became better able to go with the flow, as it were.

I'm a little anxious to find out what's going to happen when multiple kids live at my house, but I'm sure it'll be fine in the end. :)

[Lyoshka]

Good for you, Karri! I'm glad you are taking steps that you feel are necessary. We are all here to support you and learn as well, as many others have said. I'm glad the first meeting went well!
:hug99:

[Darcy]

Add me to the list applauding you! :hug99: Good luck!

[Alyssa]

Another supporter here, Karri. I would agree with you that the more kids I've had, the more I've let me anger/frustration out. With just Aidan, I felt a lot more in control/mellow. Now I find it hard not to yell when they're not listening to me. Although, in writing that, it does make sure realize it's also their ages and the things they're getting into and the way they talk back...I can't control them as much and it's frustrating and I get snippy.

Anyway, I look forward to following your experience and what you learn (and can share to help the rest of us!).

[Clare]

:hug99: Thanks for sharing, Karri and good luck on this journey you are undertaking :hug99: I will be following along, mainly to support you but also to hopefully learn from you. I'm another yeller who hates myself for doing it and would love to learn how to react differently.

[Jenn]

Having my 5 year old say, "mommy, don't yell at them." or "please don't be mad, mommy." kills me. And after I yell, I feel awful and know that it was pointless and think, "why the hell did I just lose my temper over something so trivial?" So I knew I had to do something about it. I can't have my kids have memories of their childhood of mommy yelling all the time :(



This kills me, too. Peyton once told me that (when I told her that I was disappointed in her for something) I couldn't be that upset with her because I wasn't yelling or slamming any doors. :(

I hope you don't mind another person following your journey. I really should look into something like this for myself. Oh, and I also grew up in a yelling household.

[Karri]

Tonight's session didn't really get into much. It was basically an overview of what we should expect and what's expected of us, and then some info about us.
I think I may have stated this, but I'll put it here anyway. The objective of this group is to reduce our anger and when we are angry, to deal with it in a constructive way.

We talked about how anger is not a bad thing, and how good things can come from it. It's how you react to your anger that can be bad.

He also mentioned that we're always responsible for what we do around those people that make us angry, no matter what they may do around us.

Another tidbit that was mentioned is that when you are feeling angry (whether it be at your in-laws, kids, or in a work meeting), you should never think to yourself, "don't be angry, don't be angry", because you're already angry, so its a moot point. What you need to do is take a deep breath and deal with the anger.

That may all be obvious, but I often do think that I shouldn't be angry w/ my in-laws when they're in my presence, when indeed, I can be. Now I just need to be responsible for how I act :aok:

We did an exercise where we rated our anger on a scale from 1-10...how we perceive it, how those 2-3 people closest to us perceive it, and how others (friends, acquaintences, random strangers) perceive it. With all of us, our numbers were different in all 3 categories. The goal is to have the numbers be the same across all 3...that would be the healthy thing :)

We were left with an assignment -- to observe our anger for 1 week and record it.

What happened just before, during, and after I got mad?
How did I show my anger?
What would a mouse in the corner see when I'm mad?
How do others who are around react when I get mad?
And finally....a quote from Getting Over Getting Mad by Judy Ford.
A Native American elder once described his own inner struggles in this manner. Inside of me there are two dogs. One of the dogs is mean and evil. The other dog is good. The mean dog fights the good dog all the time. When asked which dog wins, he reflected for a moment and replied, "The one I feed the most."

[Karri]

Tonight we didn't get into too much. We mostly all discussed the results of our 'observing your anger' assignment -- what we observed, how we felt, if we learned anything from it.
We talked about Everyone's Bill of Rights

The right to be treated with respect
The right to have and express your own feelings and opinions
The right to be listened to and taken seriously
The right to set your own priorities
The right to say no w/o feeling guilty
The right to ask for what you want (knowing that others have the right to refuse)
The right to get what you pay for
The right to ask for info from professionals
The right to make mistakes
The right to choose not to assert yourself
The right to feel and express anger
Generally speaking, when someone squashes your right to one of these or when you don't allow youself one, that's when anger occurs.

We also talked about the Blocks to Expressing Anger
(will get into these)

He made a comment that you shouldn't play the victim. Even in the case of children, when we say, "they just know how to push my buttons and that makes me livid!" Turn it around and don't let yourself feel like they have the power to do that. Its your choice.

We have one more week of observing our anger and then he said we'll get into the meat of the class....how to curb and deal with our anger.
If anything, this observing has made me realize that I get angry over the same things and I react the same way in those certain situations (ie: I yell for one, I stew and keep it in and withdraw for another)...and they're recurring things that I have control over.

[stass]

:aok: :popcorn:

[Stacey]

:aok: :popcorn:
:nod: :popcorn:

I'm glad you're sharing what you're learning. It's very interesting and helpful. Thanks. :)

[Jen]

Very interesting. Thanks for sharing the details. I could put some of that to use as well. It's great that you are taking responsibility for your feelings and finding new ways to deal with your anger. I can't wait to hear more.

[~Deborah~]

Best of luck Karri :)

[Girlo]

Very cool, Karri! :hug99: You know what they say - knowing what the problem is means you're halfway there. :)

[Bonnie]

This is helpful, and I am so glad you have this journal.

[Brandi]

This is awesome that you are doing this and sharing it with all of us! I'm sure we can ALL learn from this!

[Becca]

Another "thanks for sharing and best of luck" here Karri! I just found your thread and I'll be a regular here. :)

[schwanda]

Thanks for sharing Karri. I think this is really important stuff for ALL of us! Maybe we can benefit from your experience.

Amanda

[~Jenn]

Karri, I'm so glad that you're willing to share this - I'm guessing that everyone is going to pick up a trick or two from your posts, so thank you. :hug99:

[KristenF]

Wow, Karri-what you're doing is awesome. You are a strong, strong woman. :hug99: Thanks so much for sharing all of this, I'm relating to so much-I hope you realize how much you're helping so many of us by sharing this. :bighug:

[Kimmy0712]

I too support what you are doing Karri. I will follow your journey through and through. I too am a yeller and I feel so horrible after yelling at the kids. I also find that because I yell Alex is also a yeller. He told me just his morning "please stop yelling at me". Ugh I am a horrible mom.

[Bev]

Excellent Karri! :aok: Sounds like things are going well so far.

[Karri]

Oops. Forgot last week :heee:

In the past 2 weeks, we've talked about how there are really only 4 basic emotions:
sad
glad
mad
afraid
Everything that you feel fits under one of these.

We talked about how we have an emotion, which generates a thought(s), which then creates a reaction. All 3 are separate, and its very important to separate your thoughts from your actual feelings. So for example, if you say you are confused, that is actually a thought. When you're confused, you need to get down to what emotion you're actually experiencing. Is it sadness? fear? anger? a combination?

We also talked about Nuturing vs Dysfunctional families and the aspects of each and how our upbringing influenced who we are now. That was a deep one (not necessarily for me, but hearing some other people's stories made me really sad). I am going to try and type in excel and C&P here....

ETA - it didn't C&P right. So its listed one under the other, the first being nurturing, the second being dysfunctional.

Nurturing
Dysfunctional
People feel free to talk about inside feelings
People protect inside feelings


All feelings are ok
only "certain" feelings ok


Person is more important than the performance
What you do more important than who you are


All subjects open to discussion
Many taboo subjects & secrets


Individual differences accepted
Everyone must conform to strongest person's ideas/values


Each person responsible for own actions (allow to learn from mistakes)
Lots of control/criticism/picking


Respectful criticism & appropriate consequence & action
Punishment shaming


Few shoulds
Lots of shoulds


Clear flexible rules
Unclear, inconsistent & rigid rules


Atmosphere is relaxed
Atmosphere is tense


Joyous
Lots of anger, fear


Faces & works through stress
Avoids stress


People feel loving
Hurt, disappointed


Growth is celebrated
Growth discouraged


People have high self worth
People have low self worth



I know that for me, it was mainly the tense atmosphere. My dad was a yeller and had a short temper. My mom nagged. She still does (at him). He still does have a short temper w/ her.
I learned to deal with situations by yelling. I really don't "know" any other way, although I try. And this past week, as I was trying to identify my emotions, I realized that when I was yelling, I wasn't really all that mad. However, if you, as an outsider, saw me, you would think I was really mad. Isn't that weird? I overreact. So I need to get a grip on that and learn how to deal with it. When i was talking about this, the therapist suggested that I tell my parents how I feel about their yelling and nagging. :scan:

[Lynn]

I'm finding this all really interesting! :popcorn: I'm glad you're sharing what you're learning. I guess I never really thought about how I feel when I yell.

How do you think your parents would react if you told them how you felt about their nagging and yelling?

[Shel]

When i was talking about this, the therapist suggested that I tell my parents how I feel about their yelling and nagging. :scan:


I tried that once. My dad yelled at me for it :lol: (I swear I'm not making it up!)

[Trish]

Wow, I never thought about the way I feel when I'm yelling, but like you, I'm not really that mad, I've just had enough. My dad yelled alot and he and my mom went to counseling after my brother and I had moved out and now, he barely yells and he HATES it when I lose it on my boys and has tried to tell me to calm down and not discipline them the way I was. Yeah, that went over well :lol: I basically told him to NOT tell me how to discipline my children. My mom was proud of me for standing up to him ;) OK, back to you :shuffle:

[Karri]

Last week we talked about how our childhood/upbringing affected us. We were supposed to take the week to think about that. So this week, we talked about that some more. Along with the yelling and short temper, I came to a realization that 99% of the time, my parents blamed me and yelled at me for any strife between my brother(s) and me. You know, because I was the oldest and must have provoked them or because I "should know better." :rolleyes:
Anyway, I think that because they were always reacting instead of assessing and talking and whatnot, I've just learned to react immediately and scream "STOOOOOP IT!!!!!" instead of stepping in and being constructive about what's going on so that it doesn't happen again.

We talked about how you have to love yourself in order to love others. And many of those who don't love themselves carry a lot of anger. We also talked about how you need to stop making excuses for what happened to you in the past and be accountable for your life. Kinda harsh, but true. At some point, you need to just get on with it.

And finally, we talked about the Assertiveness Continuum. Which is
Passive Assertive Aggressive

Those who are Passive get walked on, say nothing, and appear to be quiet and helpful. They do things because they think they need to in order to make people happy. Passive people are generally very sad and mad underneath, but don't say anything because they're, well, passive :lol: They instead let it fester. And often times, it turns itself inward and into health issues.

Aggressive people walk on people, demand things, and appear angry. An aggressive person may not like something about you and demand that you change.

Assertive is what you should strive for. Assertive people respect others, make their needs known, and is generally at peace. They may use a "when you_____, I feel_____." If they don't like something about you, they may tell you and ask that you change, but if you tell them no, they are ok with that or they go on with their lives in a way that makes them happy.

Natch, there are situations where you may take a more passive approach or may choose to be a bit more aggressive about something. But generally, you should try to strive for assertiveness.

We also briefly discussed how today, parents tend to take a much more passive approach with children, when that's a bad thing. You need to be assertive with them.

[Girlo]

This is great stuff, Karri! :aok: Thanks again for posting everything you're learning so we learn it too. :heee:

[Karri]

I missed last week b/c I had no one to watch the kids. Oh well.

Continuing on with the Passive--Assertive--Aggressive continuum, we talked about behavior clues.

Passive people clam up.
say nothing when angry
smile when angry inside
say things to 'play nice'
say they agree w/ others when they don't
give the cold shoulder

Assertive people speak up.
tell people how they feel
tell people what they think
tell people what they want

Aggressive people blow up.
swear
call names
yell
threaten
give the cold shoulder

We touched on how sarcasm is deflected anger....especially in women :scan:

We then talked about and practiced "I messages". I messages are assertive. The goal of an I message is to let the recipient know about us....just to say it, so they acknowledge it....and hope that they consider it and change. However, it does not mean that the other person will change.

Usually, we (in general) respond with a 'you message', which will make the receiver instantly defensive, because it's all about them. It is aggressive and it takes the power away from me.

I may be angry, but my anger is all mine. It's because of me. I own my emotions and am responsible for them. 'You' do not make me angry. I make me angry.

The basic I message has 3 components:

1) I am feeling (sad/mad/glad/afraid)

2) Because (what happened or what I am upset about)

3) And I would like (what I want to happen)

So instead of clamming up and going all "nothing." on chris when he asks what's wrong and I am actually pissed off, I would say, " I am feeling angry right now because you were over two hours late coming home and I would like a simple call in advance next time this might happen."

I can even make this message very basic and use it with the kids. "I am feeling sad because you yelled no to mommy and I would like you to pick up your toys." I can say it with a firm voice, being assertive, but not yell :heee:

Now I need to practice....

[KristenF]

wow, that makes so much sense. It's wierd, but I can see that I'm all three of those things. What makes me the most sad is that I'm only aggressive with my children-they are the only people I EVER yell at. :bawl: That sucks. I need to change that. I need an I statement for me!

:bighug:

[Barb]

I've been reading this as you go along, but haven't posted yet. Thanks for the updates. I've got some stuff I'm going to practice with the kids now, too. :)

[Girlo]

That's fantastic!! :aok: I tend to be passive.....and sarcastic. :shuffle: Assertive is definitely the way to go!

Thanks for posting this week. :) Very helpful.......

[schwanda]

That's great stuff!!! It sounds so simple but it's obviously harder in practice.

Amanda

[Brandi]

Sounds good Karri! I am just finishing reading the book "How to talk so kids will listen and listen so kids will talk" and they talk about similar ways of speaking to your children. It's a GREAT book btw if anyone hasn't read it.

[Karri]

On Monday night, we talked about if we used any 'i messages' over the course of the week, and if so, what they were and how they went. I did actually use a few, one with Chris and several with the kids. And Chris was very receptive. The kids....well, it was better than me yelling, but it didn't always change their behavior, either. Baby steps, right? It did make Aidan think about what he was doing, though. Remembering one I used with him, he was yelling at Norah and I said to him, "Aidan, I feel sad when you yell at Norah, because it hurts her feelings and makes her sad. I would like you to talk to her and use nice words instead of yelling."

We talked about Active Listening and practiced, using role playing. I felt like I was back in Child Psych, 101 :lol:

(I am going to type this up referring to a child, since that's my major issue)

With active listening, you respond to people's feelings, even more than their words, so they feel understood and accepted. Then they can calm themselves down and start to think about their solutions.

Its 3 basic steps.....

1)Guess at the child's feelings and state them back to him/her ("you seem very angry." ) OR say some of the child's words that they've said back to them as a statement ("oh. Madeline is mean to you.")

2)Talk to your child with statements, not questions......
ie: "you seem sad" (not "are you sad?"), "i bet that hurts" (not "does that hurt?") or "she was mean to you" (not "was she mean to you?")

3) When your child has calmed down, help them problem solve....
to avoid giving them our solution to their problem, we can begin to help them by asking a question or two. It works well to ask open-ended questions such as.... "what could happen now?" or "what do you think should be done?"

Your child may come up with unrealistic solutions, or may not be able to think of any. It may help then to offer them a range of solutions. You can help your child with the whole process of decision making by giving them the lead while you serve as the consultant.

Whatever you do, DO NOT:

be too busy to listen to your child
try to joke or tease your child out of their upset
tell your child it will go away
tell your child to tough it out
try to convince your child it is not so bad
tell your child how to solve the problem
worry that active listening will turn them into a wimp or whiner
try to fix their problem for them

If you use active listening, you should get:

more compliance with your rules & requests
decrease childish yelling, tantrums, and fighting
avoid blowups and power struggles
teach children to solve their own problems
help children and parents feel closer

So I tried this twice now. Its hard. I didn't think it was, but it is.
Yesterday, Norah fell off her bike and skinned her knees pretty bad and was crying. I ran to her and said, "you're hurting." she said no. I tried again: "you're mad." No again. Again: "You're scared." bingo! "yeah." pause. "i scared. I fall down. I bleeding." Now she was done crying and I asked if she wanted a bandaid (normally she goes running from bandaids and it makes her cry even more. weird kid). She said, "no. not now. i just play." So I told her that if she needed one, to let me know. And she was fine.

Now when she fell and skinned her knees last week, she cried for (i swear) 20+ minutes and I bandaged her up without her permission, which sent her into a tizzy. So this was good.

Attempt #2:
Aidan was pissed that Elliott was playing with the train track he made. I said, "you seem very mad." he said " i am frustrated!" (i laughed. oops). I said, "You're frustrated. Oh." He said, "yeah. I don't want Elliott to break it! I worked hard on that track!" I said, "oh. You worked hard on that track." He said, "yeah. can you keep him off of it?" I said, "you want me to keep him off of it? well, you're going to be gone for the next 3 hours at school. Do you think that I will be able to do that?" He thought about it and said, "well, maybe you can let him play with it and fix it if he breaks it." I said, "yes, I can fix it if he breaks it. That is an excellent idea."
The end.

I do want to add 1 more thing:
He added that he's found that active listening is hardest for men. They have an innate need to want to solve problems. Women understand that sometimes, you just need to listen when someone's angry/sad/etc. True. Oh so true.

[Barb]

Thanks again for posting all that. I'm so going to try some of that.

And that last paragraph, yup. So true. So annoying, but true. :nod:

[Dennis]

Karri, this is great stuff! Thanks for sharing it.

[AmyP]

Those are great tips. I'll try to remember them to use on Sarah once her speech improves.

[schwanda]

Thanks again for sharing. We're trying some of this in my house. I made Tom read all of your posts because he comes from a very dysfunctional family. He's either too passive or too aggressive. He lets the kids do whatever they want until they push him too far and then he explodes. Not a great parenting strategy! I've also been losing my temper with Nathaniel recently and your posts are really, really helping me. Thanks again!

Amanda

[Bev]

Karri, this is great stuff! Thanks for sharing it.
Ditto! :)

[MrsPeacefrog]

I can really relate to alot of that, and think it's wonderful you are doing what you are doing to make yourself and your family a happier entity!

:hug99: Thanks for sharing your journey

[mrs.knip]

First of all thanks Karri for sharing this thread. I knew you had this journal and I am really needing it the last few days. Tim has been working 16 hour days which means no break for me and I have been yelling at the kids WAY too much, the last few days. I know it does not help the situation, only makes me and the kids more upset but I still do it. :( I need to read through some of this and start practicing it. Thanks again.



wow, that makes so much sense. It's wierd, but I can see that I'm all three of those things. What makes me the most sad is that I'm only aggressive with my children-they are the only people I EVER yell at. :bawl: That sucks. I need to change that. I need an I statement for me!

:bighug:

This is so me!

[Girlo]

Man, Karri.....that last post you did was incredibly helpful!! :)

Those things that you should NOT tell your kids under any circumstances..... :shuffle: Yeah....both Paul and I do just about every one of those things often. :shuffle: I'm going to try harder to do things the other way and see what happens. :)
It's hard sometimes for both of us because Alex is so darn easy!! I know, I know...what a curse. :heee: But, it's hard to know if we're doing something wrong because he's so darn compliant so often! We're not going to know if we messed him up until he's 40! :lol:

Thanks again for the great post..... :hug99:

[Sandy]

I don't know what happened here - I might have missed it that the classes ended - but I thought it was worthy to note that I re-read this again with interest the other day. I really tried hard to impliment some of these strategies last night. I thought they were quite successful, albiet challenging. I am going to keep working on it.

[Karri]

I am glad they were helpful for some :)
Yeah, Sandy, they did end. I find myself regressing sometimes, but I really try hard to keep myself in check. I think about this shit every morning before I get out of bed (seriously, I do).

[Bonnie]

I've been reading this again as well... it has been so helpful, helpful enough that I am thinking of looking into similar classes for both Lee and myself. I appreciate you posting this journal, because it is inspiring me to take action in a difficult area. Thank you for sharing such a personal journey.