Going back on my school decision

[Alyssa]

As some of you might remember, I've been planning to send Aidan to a 2nd year of Kindergarten b/c he's just 5 weeks before the cut-off date and I don't want him being the among the youngest in his class. In fact, I never planned to send him to K this year, but have him do a 2nd year of PreK. However, once we told PreK teachers of that plan about this time last year, they really encouraged me to send him along because they thought he'd be bored at that level again. They said they felt it was better to repeat K than PreK, because kids in K tend to learn at different levels. So, I listened.

He's had a great year of K. It's a full day program, and according to the teachers/director, that allows them to work at a mixed K/1st grade cirriculum. Aidan's done great. He's not been without some issues, including reminders to focus on his work at times, but the teachers have been very happy with his progress, as have we.

We had his 2nd progress conference today, and he again got a very solid report. The teachers feel strongly that sending him back to K will stunt his learning progress.

Believe me, I'm not saying I've got a genius on my hands...just a solid kid who can pass K in one year. ;)

My position on holding him has never been because I think he'll struggle early on, socially or academically. I feel confident he's ready for 1st grade. It's more down the road that concerns me. I worry that he won't be as mature as his classmates in making decisions, and that if he does start to struggle academically, that I'll be kicking myself for not holding him like I thought I should. Of course, that's all conjecture and he could be fine. But the "what ifs" are very present in my head.

I don't know what I'm asking for - advice, support, or if I just wanted to get it out there to make myself feel good about the decision. We're pretty set on sending him along. (Not that he's registered anywhere - yikes!) And I'm happy in thinking I'll save $4K in not repeating K. (We have no public K.) I am going to do a quick look at other local K options to see if one might be a good fit for where he's at, but from the research I've done to date, I'm not really hopeful that exists around here.

I am pretty sure I'll be taking this as a lesson and holding Seamus, since his birthday is just 2 weeks before the cutoff. So I'll start him a year later in the preschool/PreK program.

[Clare]

I think he'll do fine! My kids are the opposite, they all miss the cutoff so are the oldest in their class. The younger ones in Emily's class don't seem to struggle at all. The only time I notice it is when they'll be having their 7th birthday parties in June, and then others start turning 8 in July :crazy:

That's great that Aidan has done so well in Kindergarten :aok: I'm sure he's going to love 1st grade too :)

[sheila]

:woo: Good for Aidan!

Both my brothers were held back later. One in 2nd grade and one in 7th. Neither suffered any trauma because of it (although the 7th grade was in a new school). My point is that there is plenty of time to hold him back if & when you think it is best. If nothing else, you can always strongly encourage a year off between HS and college.

[Alyssa]

Both my brothers were held back later. One in 2nd grade and one in 7th. Neither suffered any trauma because of it (although the 7th grade was in a new school). My point is that there is plenty of time to hold him back if & when you think it is best. If nothing else, you can always strongly encourage a year off between HS and college.I know you've said that before, and it's good to hear again. I know repeating down the road is an option, but I'd think it would be harder socially. That said, I do actually know lots of kids repeat around the 7th grade period, but switch schools at the same time making it easier/less of a stigma.

And again, not saying Aidan is some super smarty. He's just able to pass Kindergarten. :lol: 25 hours a week for 9 months, and $4000 later, I'm glad for that!!

One more thing thinking of what Clare wrote - I have actually noticed a lot of kids have summer birthdays around here. (Must be those cold winters. :awink: ) In talking to a lot of Moms and looking at the birthday chart at Aidan's school, I swear the majority have been kids born June-Sept, so actually, Aidan might not be as young as I fear. (Of the 18 kids in Aidan's class, 8 are June-Sept 01 births.) His best friend from school is a Sept 15 birthday and is going on to 1st grade too after a similar debate.

[WendyK]

I think it's fine! Heck if you feel he's ready for 1st grade and it will save you 4K next year then go for it! We held TJ back this year and while I know it was the right decision I do believe he's bored. I bet he could just skip Kindergarten next year and it would be fine. 3 years of preschool is too much!

[Alyssa]

3 years of preschool is too much!
Ack, don't tell me that either b/c that is what I plan to do with Seamus! :lol: I can't win! Should have planned these kids birthdays better. :doh:

[WendyK]

Ack, don't tell me that either b/c that is what I plan to do with Seamus! :lol: I can't win! Should have planned these kids birthdays better. :doh:

Shame on you by not planning better.... Actually I think it depends on the child. TJ didn't need 3 years. Evan on the other hand I think would benefit from 3 years but he won't get the chance because of his birthday..

[Bev]

I wrote this out and debated deleting it, but I'm going to post it and hope no one takes offence because I do realize this is a genuine concern for people. :)

I don't think it should be such a problem. Having said that, Mason is the absolute oldest in his class at Jan 3 with a Dec 31st cutoff.

In my opinion 10 or 20 years ago this wouldn't even be a subject up for debate. I think it is more about the parent's issues and fears for the child. Just one more thing society tries to use to cause parents endless self-doubt and second guessing. I don't need shit like that, so I ignore it.

My brother has a Dec 9th birthday and had a Dec 31st cutoff. He was always one of the youngest in the class and it was never an issue, to my knowledge, until he missed a couple of weeks of school in grade 7 due to an appendix rupture. He struggled a bit after that for the rest of grade 7. Part of his problem, though, was that he actually needed to put an effort in to learn, where some of his close friends did not require that much effort. Either way, he did fairly well in school, certainly not an honours student but no slouch as a solid C+/B student and he's doing well in life, with a good job.

[Dennis]

I think this is one of those decisions where you'll end up second-guessing yourself no matter what you do. So go with whatever your gut is telling you.

[Alyssa]

I think this is one of those decisions where you'll end up second-guessing yourself no matter what you do. So go with whatever your gut is telling you.That's an excellent point! :lol:

I also think I wouldn't stuggle so much with the decision if he was a girl. I've done too much reading on boys and their delayed maturity. :awink:

[Bonnie]

I think if the teachers say he is ready for 1st grade, then you should send him to 1st grade. As for Seamus, you have time, and you can take it as it comes. You get to change your mind! :)

[Shel]

Here, I'll be the voice of dissention. Cuz I like to make trouble, you know that :awink:

We let Jacob start k at 4 because he had been in preschool for 3 years, and well, he is a smarty smarty :giggle: Grade wise he did great. Socially not so much. He did great in K but toward the end of first grade, the other kids pulled away from him maturity wise, and he started struggling to fit in. He would act out to get attention and to try and make people like him. Because we were changing schools, we held him back and had him repeat first grade, and we will never go back on that decision. He thrived after that. My brother was the same way, only my parents had him repeat K5. The grades were there, but the maturity just wasn't.

I would say if you let him go early, just watch and be open to the fact that it may be okay this year or next, but maybe not so much after that.

[WendyK]

Here, I'll be the voice of dissention. Cuz I like to make trouble, you know that :awink:

We let Jacob start k at 4 because he had been in preschool for 3 years, and well, he is a smarty smarty :giggle: Grade wise he did great. Socially not so much. He did great in K but toward the end of first grade, the other kids pulled away from him maturity wise, and he started struggling to fit in. He would act out to get attention and to try and make people like him. Because we were changing schools, we held him back and had him repeat first grade, and we will never go back on that decision. He thrived after that. My brother was the same way, only my parents had him repeat K5. The grades were there, but the maturity just wasn't.

I would say if you let him go early, just watch and be open to the fact that it may be okay this year or next, but maybe not so much after that.


Thanks for sharing this because I have been 2nd guessing my decision to hold TJ back.

[Nichole]

We were thinking we were going to hold Jackson back from starting Kindergarten this coming fall (the cut off here is Dec 2, his birthday is October 30, so he'll be 4 when school starts) for all of the same reasons you've been thinking, Alyssa. But one of his preschool teachers told us that he really thinks he's ready to start. He says that he's mature enough and that's often more important than the academics/skills, because if they have the maturity they'll be better equipped to learn the rest of the stuff.

I was concerned that his fine motor skills weren't good enough (holding a pencil, cutting, etc), but the teacher said he'd learn that stuff because he's got the maturity to do ok. I was unsure at first, but we're now leaning towards starting him this fall.

It feels like a HUGE decision with so many possible repercussions, so I can completely relate to what you're going through. :hug99:

[Karin]

We have struggled with this with Steve, whose birthday is Sept. 22nd. Where we are now in NY, the cut-off is Dec. 1. Where we are moving to in NJ, the cut-off is Oct. 1. We decided, after thinking it over long and hard, to hold him and have him repeat pre-K. His teacher felt that although he was extremely bright, extremely verbal and would have NO problem academically in kindergarten, he was less mature than the others kids in his class (he's the youngest of 16 in his pre-K right now) and that may cause trouble for him. Not that he's IMMATURE for his age, he's TYPICAL for his age. But, when you put him in the same class as kids who are maybe 12-14mos. older, it's a noticeable difference. She commented that to start him early, he'd do fine, but he won't be a leader, which would be a shame because he has so much to offer (yes, it's projecting ahead and a lot of conjecture, but I could see her point). She thought he'd be better able to reach his potential as an older kid in the class because he won't continuously be outshined by the older kids because they're developmentally ahead of him. In her experience, it's never hurt a child to hold them back, but it could potentially hurt them to start them too early. As for being bored academically, I don't worry about it. Yes, surprising to hear from an elementary teacher, but I really don't think it would be an issue. There are so many ways that parents can supplement their child's learning, with so many resources in most communities (clubs, museums, etc.) If a child is not being challenged enough in their regular classroom, many schools even offer gifted and talented type programs to help enrich their learning.

Other teachers I've spoken to in Steve's school agree, some with some personal experience to back it up (the lead teacher has two sons whom she held back - one is now an engineer and the other is a student in vet school). Every mom I know that has chosen to hold a child back (we know both girls and boys) does NOT regret it.

She also shared with me some articles on the subject, one by Tony Colletta, an education expert in the NY/NJ area. I'd be happy to copy them for you if you're interested in them.

So, that's just my $.02, as a mom who's in the same boat. Of course, every child is unique and what I think may be best for MY child may not be best for EVERY child. I wish you luck in making your decision - I'm sure you'll make the right decision for Aidan and for Seamus when the time comes. I agree - go with your gut - you are the only person who can truly decide what is best for your child! :heart:

[Karin]

Another thought I had...in rereading Bev's post...

I think that 10 or 20 years ago, this certainly WASN'T an issue. I don't think parents thought about holding their kids back (my birthday is in Nov. so I was the youngest in the class, started K at 4, was in the same class with kids 10 months older than me...and I did just fine!) But, things have changed. And, as Bev said, maybe it's due in part to parents' fears and apprehensions about sending their kids out into the world and wanting to protect them and keep them sheltered a little while longer. But, I think that schools and learning have changed and that also plays a part in deciding to start kids in school later. I've read about it and seen it first hand - it's a trickle-down kind of thing, because our society/schools are becoming more competitive and want to churn out even more academically advanced kids. Kindergarten kids don't just finger paint, eat snacks, and take naps. There's reading, math and HOMEWORK. The standards for learning and the expectations for a child's performance in school are greater now than they were 20 years ago. Thus, I think it's become more of an issue as to whether or not a child is ready.

[Nichole]

Kindergarten kids don't just finger paint, eat snacks, and take naps. There's reading, math and HOMEWORK. The standards for learning and the expectations for a child's performance in school are greater now than they were 20 years ago. Thus, I think it's become more of an issue as to whether or not a child is ready.

I agree that it's more this than coddling/overprotection. It is for us, anyway. :nod: Even preschool is more intense than it used to be. I think kids are being pushed at too young of an age these days, but that's a topic for another thread.

I didn't learn to read until 1st grade. Kindergarten was about exploring through play, drawing and coloring pictures, learning to be social, learning how to sit and listen. The Kindergarten of today is much more academic, and kids today are having to do things that not all of them are mature enough to handle. One year can make a huge difference - I just think about the huge differences I've seen between Jackson at 3 and Jackson at 4. I know there will be just as many differences between him at 4 and him at 5, too. Add those major changes/growth to the high expectations being placed on kids in school now, and it's a big deal, IMO.

My reasons for considering holding him back have nothing to do with him eventually being some super star in his class or some super athlete (as it is for some parents :rolleyes: don't even get me started). It's about making sure that school is an enjoyable and rewarding experience for him, not a struggle he dreads because it's too much for him to handle.

[Karin]

My reasons for considering holding him back have nothing to do with him eventually being some super star in his class or some super athlete (as it is for some parents :rolleyes: don't even get me started). It's about making sure that school is an enjoyable and rewarding experience for him, not a struggle he dreads because it's too much for him to handle.



Nichole - very well said! I totally agree with you and that's how I feel about Steve! When I referred to Steve's teacher's comments, I didn't mean that I needed him to be a superstar in comparison to others, I just want him to be able to reach his full potential over the years and to be happy and confident in school. When I read your post I thought the last paragraph totally sums up how I feel, too, and you explained it much better! :lol:

[Nichole]

Oh no Karin, I didn't think you were saying that at all! My comments came from the complaints that sometimes come up about the increasing popularity of parents "red shirting" their kids so that they're the smartest or most athletic in their classes. And also to sort of speak to the "overprotective" (or helicoptering) comments as well.

I suppose I am trying to be a little protective by considering holding him back, but only in a way to help ensure his success as a student who enjoys school and learning, not to keep him from the bad things of the world, kwim?

[gulp!]

Since Aidan has been doing so well in K, I'd probably send him on to 1st grade. :nod: He's not small for his age, so physically he's right in line with the other kids. And yes, there are a LOT of summer bdays, so he won't be significantly younger than the rest of his class. I'd heavily weight the opinions of his teachers, since they see him every day in the classroom.

[Karin]

Nichole - I didn't think you thought that's what I meant (does that make sense?) but I just thought I'd springboard off your thought to clarify my own opinion. :up:

I know what you mean, though, because many moms I know have said that they have to dispel that notion of "redshirting" and explain that's not what their intention is. One mom is a PE teacher and she said lots of people said to her, "Oh, yeah, you want to keep him back just so he's better in sports since he's older and stronger." :doh: I don't think (or I should hope) most parents who hold their kids back use this as a REAL part of their decision-making process. Hopefully it's based on what they think is best for their child's emotional and psychological well-being.

[Dennis]

But, I think that schools and learning have changed and that also plays a part in deciding to start kids in school later. I've read about it and seen it first hand - it's a trickle-down kind of thing, because our society/schools are becoming more competitive and want to churn out even more academically advanced kids. Kindergarten kids don't just finger paint, eat snacks, and take naps. There's reading, math and HOMEWORK. The standards for learning and the expectations for a child's performance in school are greater now than they were 20 years ago. Thus, I think it's become more of an issue as to whether or not a child is ready.

Another part of the trickle-down is that with more parents choosing to hold their kids back, the age spread becomes a bigger factor. A child who just makes the cutoff is now going to be in school with kids that are well over a year older than him/her. It's no longer a matter of being able to keep up with kids 11 months older, but keeping up with kids maybe 18 months older.

[Karin]

Dennis - Good point! I noticed myself, when talking to moms, that it's not just the fall birthday kids that were being held, but even kids born in June and July, further widening the gap. I was VERY surprised when a mom of a boy born in early July said she was going to hold him. Then I found out that there's an early July-born boy in Steve's class - making this little boy 14.5 months older than my kid. That's a big difference!

[Jillian]

Since Aidan has been doing so well in K, I'd probably send him on to 1st grade. :nod: He's not small for his age, so physically he's right in line with the other kids. And yes, there are a LOT of summer bdays, so he won't be significantly younger than the rest of his class. I'd heavily weight the opinions of his teachers, since they see him every day in the classroom.


I agree, I think if his teachers think he is mature enough to move on you should do it...it really is not that big of a deal to hold him back in a couple years if he seems to need it. My step sister repeated 2nd grade this year and it's been great for her.

[Jillian]

Dennis - Good point! I noticed myself, when talking to moms, that it's not just the fall birthday kids that were being held, but even kids born in June and July, further widening the gap. I was VERY surprised when a mom of a boy born in early July said she was going to hold him. Then I found out that there's an early July-born boy in Steve's class - making this little boy 14.5 months older than my kid. That's a big difference!


:nod: as of right now we (dh and I and Caid's pre-school teacher) are planning on keeping Caid back an extra year, and he has a March birthday, his is for different reasons (he has about a 12 month cognitive delay, so that extra year can make a huge difference for him), but yea....

[schwanda]

I think you've pretty much gotten both sides of the argument here. My older brother and I are 1 year and 20 days apart. We both have October birthdays. My brother's preschool teacher recommended holding him back a year because he was behind socially. My mom felt that she couldn't do that since it would have put us in the same class (and I was a girl and not socially delayed). My brother excelled academically (he ended up valedictorian and went to Harvard) but I think he did struggle socially. It would have been a hard call. He didn't reach his final height until well into college (all of my brothers were small for their ages until college and they are all 6 feet or more now). So he was always one of the smallest. He wasn't terribly athletic, made worse by being small, and he never totally fit in. The flip side is that he was doing college level math and science by early high school. Even without being held back he was academically bored.
My stance on this issue is that there is never a right or wrong answer. There are plusses and minuses to either decision. You'll have to just choose now and understand that you may decide to change your mind later. And being a mother you'll blame yourself no matter what! :lol:
As a final thought: you can always choose to hold him back later but it will be much harder to let him "skip" a grade later. I think letting him progress now leaves you with more options. :dunno:

Amanda

[Karin]

I agree that there's no one right answer, as Amanda said. There definitely are pros and cons to either choice.

I think, though, that it would be harder to hold a child back a year than to skip ahead a grade (I don't even know if most schools do this nowadays, I know my school doesn't). I think that to have a child repeat a grade would be more difficult, even as early as mid-elementary school. The child would start to feel less confident and capable if he/she sees friends going on to the next grade but is told that he/she is repeating the grade. I think that would do more damage to the child's self-esteem and other children may see/treat the child differently. I suppose if you were going to switch schools and repeat it wouldn't be a problem, because noone would be the wiser, but if if were the same school with the same kids, I think it would be REALLY tough on a kid.

Here's a thought - what about going to the elementary school and talking to the principal and 1st grade teachers? They don't know Aidan yet, but maybe they can share some insight or relate some similar experiences that may be helpful. Maybe they would offer to meet with Aidan and tell you their thoughts. That information, along with his pre-K teachers' recommendations, might be helpful in making the right choice, if you're still on the fence.

[Karri]

Alyssa - Did you see this article?

As parents register their little ones for kindergarten in the fall, some may wonder, "Will he be ready?" I did, briefly, because my son won't turn 5 until September.

Despite the fact that an average of 9% of kids a year are being held back by their parents, there is no clear evidence to show that it helps. In fact, a recent U.S. Department of Education study revealed that by third grade, delayed and non-delayed kids are equal in both math and reading skills.

So-called redshirting even could be detrimental. Studies show that delayed kids have more behavioral issues and are almost twice as likely to need special-education services.

"If you delay kindergarten, [these kids] are not getting early intervention, so you're doing the opposite of what would be most desirable," says Elizabeth Graue, co-author of a study on the topic.

For my part, I have no doubts: This fall, my son Ben will be riding on the big yellow school bus.

[size=2]From http://www.usaweekend.com/07_issues/070318/070318thinksmart.html] USA Weekend ([/size)

[Shel]

I was just coming to post that, Karri :)

[Alyssa]

I would say if you let him go early, just watch and be open to the fact that it may be okay this year or next, but maybe not so much after that.100%. Assuming we send him, it's always going to nag at me anytime he has a struggle. But as Dennis pointed out, I'm sure I'll second-guess holding him too if he seemed bored.

And he's not going early, just on time. :)

And thanks Karri (and almost Shel!) for posting that...that's great to know and keep in mind over the next few years. :nod:

[Alyssa]

I'd heavily weight the opinions of his teachers, since they see him every day in the classroom.Wanted to comment on this too. That did mean a lot to me, since I know from talking about him with them, they see things in him (mostly good) that we don't see at home. The way he answers questions, does his work, interacts with his teachers and peers, the way he's processing information...they could look at all of that and how he acts with them/away from us and use their experience to project how'll he do socially and academically at the next level. And there are 2 of them, so it also made me feel better that they both felt that way. :nod:

And one more thing...like Nichole, this was never about red-shirting. I am 100% against that.

[Alyssa]

As a final thought: you can always choose to hold him back later but it will be much harder to let him "skip" a grade later. I think letting him progress now leaves you with more options. :dunno:
I tend to hear from people that it's a lot harder to argue with a school district to push a kid ahead gradewise than repeat them. And of course, both would have social ramifications.

[Alyssa]

Here's a thought - what about going to the elementary school and talking to the principal and 1st grade teachers? They don't know Aidan yet, but maybe they can share some insight or relate some similar experiences that may be helpful. Maybe they would offer to meet with Aidan and tell you their thoughts. That information, along with his pre-K teachers' recommendations, might be helpful in making the right choice, if you're still on the fence.Last comment! :lol: We're in a bad situation b/c our current town has already had 1st grade reg and we've missed that...and we don't plan to stay in this town anyway. I could go the current town or the expected new town and have that conversation, but it's a little tricky with the housing situation.

Ah, just another reason to be bitter at the real estate market!! Lucky you for escaping! :awink:

[Shel]

And one more thing...like Nichole, this was never about red-shirting. I am 100% against that.


Yeah, like you aren't going to hold him back so he'll be the biggest baddest hockey player in first grade :lol:

[Clare]

And he's not going early, just on time. :)



That's what I was going to point out. Some of the responses read like you are sending him early, but as you said before, most of the kids in his class have Jul-Sep birthdays so they'll all be exactly the same age.

[Alyssa]

Yeah, like you aren't going to hold him back so he'll be the biggest baddest hockey player in first grade :lol:Oh, believe me...from my limited experience with these hockey parents, clearly he's got major competition in that area. (Or so say these prodigy's parents. :rolleyes: )

[Lora]

Here, I'll be the voice of dissention. Cuz I like to make trouble, you know that :awink:

We let Jacob start k at 4 because he had been in preschool for 3 years, and well, he is a smarty smarty :giggle: Grade wise he did great. Socially not so much. He did great in K but toward the end of first grade, the other kids pulled away from him maturity wise, and he started struggling to fit in. He would act out to get attention and to try and make people like him. Because we were changing schools, we held him back and had him repeat first grade, and we will never go back on that decision. He thrived after that. My brother was the same way, only my parents had him repeat K5. The grades were there, but the maturity just wasn't.

I would say if you let him go early, just watch and be open to the fact that it may be okay this year or next, but maybe not so much after that.

I really needed to hear this, Shel! We held Christopher back from kindergarten this year and I have struggled with that decision. His teacher has assured that we made the right choice since she feels that he was lacking in his maturity level last year. He has made a great improvement this year and I feel so much better about sending him on to kindegarten now.

Lora