As most of you know, Yumi has ADHD. He is very impulsive. We've had to deal with a lot of things - and with we I mean Yumi and us, his parents. The latest issue is stealing. And lying. (I know lying comes from being afraid of what will happen and how we react.)

I think the best thing is to post my latest update on him form my journal here to give you a better picture.
Note: Nava is his special ed teacher. He sees her once a week and she is in close contact with the school, working with the teachers and giving them and us advice.

Yumi - Our clever and sweet boy. He can be very responsible and loves holding and watching Moriah. He is doing well in school in terms of grades. He had some concentration issues lately. His teacher started a weekly sticker chart with him ... which went great for the first 4 days. He did all the classwork, listened more and was doing great. Then he left it home, didn't listen or do classwork and claimed he did and filled in the stickers alone.

He received a letter home about a test for gifted kids he will have to take on March 1. Based on the test he will be able to continue/participate in the program for gifted kids. That is awesome! Thruthfully, at first I thought the letter contained something negative. And he was sent to the headmaster this week because he refused to cooperate in the English lesson. I will have to consult with Nava regarding that issue. She did find a workbook for him and told me to teach him nonsense words at first so he will learn things like oo making the sound it makes etc. His memory is so great that he remembers words after reading them once or twice. That means he doesn't remember the rules of how to read/decipher unknown words and starts guessing.

But that is a small problem compared to what we are dealing with at the moment. Right now we are focusing on ... no stealing and no lying. The stealing of the money he did a short while back was the tip of the iceberg. Literally. I happened to carry his bag to the front last night when I got all the bags ready and heard a clinking sound when I put it down. I hate going thru his stuff... but got curious. I found .... TONS of things in his bag that aren't his. Money, pens, wallets (empty TG), marbles, ... and what not. Stuff he has taken from kids in school and things he took from our room/bathroom. So Yehuda and I took him aside for a serious talk. This is serious business. He HAS to learn he cannot act on his impulse and take whatever he wants. He claimed at first he "found" things or "was given" the things. But we caught him in several lies there ("Should we call XY's mom and ask her?" etc). Then I called Nava and consulted with her. He is not to bring home ANYTHING anymore. I will have to check his bag every day right after he comes home now. And in case he does bring something home, he has to copy something related to stealing (a whole page). This way he will also practice writing and read about the issue. And we will take away his sticker collection. We have to tell him over and over again. "We don't need anything. We have everything we need." On the other hand, for the stickers regarding good behavior in class he can earn 1 NIS a day and will receive the money at the end of the week. He is allowed to buy new stickers with it (for the collection - they also use it to swap and play card games). Even if he might leave the things he steals at school for now, it is step one not to bring them home. And we will be looking for books dealing with stealing in the library.

We told him we love him of course and that this is a big problem and that we will help him thru it. He knows the rules and what will happen in case he breaks them. And he knows he can get awards for doing things right. I hope this will help and we can get him back on track ASAP. Of course we are not involving the school. That would only harm him.

He does have to return the stolen items of course. The question is how. Nava thinks he should return one of them each day. We think it would be better to bring the whole lot to the Lost and Found corner in school. Yehuda would do that with him on a Friday.

He is a great, sweet and loving kid. He just needs our help and guidance like any other kid. Maybe more so. I am confident we can get thru this.

Has anyone dealt with stealing/lying? Any advice how we can get thru this and help Yumi and us?

I'm sorry Nadine!
I haven't had to deal with this (my kids are too young). I remember my mom making me return something and apologize. It was very embarassing for me and I never did it again! Don't know if that would work with Yumi....

Amanda

Amanda - Ideally we would want to do that. The problem is, that if we do, the school will know and we want to prevent that if we can.

Why do you want to prevent the school from knowing? You say that involving the school would harm him, and I don't understand what the school would do to him.

Sheila - it is a private school. We has a lot of trouble at first when Yumi started there because of his ADHD. They basically wanted us to solve the "problems/issues" he had right away. Or else ... get chucked out. We imagine their reaction would be the sAME.
plus with all he and we are dealing with, we don't want/ need the tag "thief" added to his name when it really is part of the ADHD issue.

I wonder though, Nadine. If the school isn't involved and you cover it up, then how much of a lesson will he learn. If the biggest problem he has in reaction to this is writing out a page of text about stealing, I can't see how he will learn his lesson. Yes, he may have ADHD, which might have caused this problem, but I would then think the reaction to it needs to be even bigger, if there is no consequence then how will he learn?

I worry that all he will learn is his parents will fix the problem. :dunno:

Will he get any other type of punishment other than secretly returning the items? I really do think it needs to be something big. Stealing wallets is a really big deal. Whether there is money in them or not (and how do you know the money wasn't taken out by him and he is hiding it somewhere else?)

It's a horrible situation to be in, but I really think your actions will determine how he handles his impulses in the future.

I tend to agree with Deb on this one. Though it is a tough call -- choosing to protect your child from authorities that you see as unfair and making sure they understand the magnatude of what they have done/are doing.

I like Nava's idea that each item needs to be returned. If the school figures out what is going on, then it seems like a natural consequence of his actions. Putting everything in the Lost & Found seems like a really easy way out for him, and unfair to the kids he stole from -- what happens to the kid(s) who are getting in trouble because they have told their parents someone stole their wallet and then have it turn up in Lost & Found? MAking sure that child or those children have Yumi on their side saying he did steal it seems only fair.

I am really torn about the whole thing.
Yes, I think he should return the items of course. But how can I count on him doing it? It is not like I am there in school with him and can make sure he does return the items. He might as well bring it to school and throw it to a corner. Even if he tells me he returned it, I can't know for sure, KWIM?
Of course he is responsible for his actions and I don't want him to learn that we will cover up his actions. But I don't think involving the school would do any good.
I do see Nava as an authority in the issue and she told us (and I also read it on the internet - just make a Google search of ADHD and stealing) that it is fairly common and has to be handled in a way that will teach them and make them understand. Immediate consequences such as having privileges taken away and writing are supposed to help.

I am not an expert by any means on ADHD, but as you have come to ask our opinions I will give it, you can chose to ignore me it's up to you.

But here is what I think.

I think hiding behind the ADHD as the excuse for his actions can be more harm than good. I know that obviously it can be a factor, but excusing the behaviour because of it I feel can do more damage.

I know you don't want him to be kicked out of school, what parent would? I know you said that you have read up on and been told that taking away privileges and writing tasks can help correct the problem, but how is that morally right towards the kids that had a crime committed against them. I think the impact of having to own up to his actions, infront of an authority figure like the principal might impact him to the point where he can see the consequence of his actions.

As parents we want to protect our children, but we also have to do what is right. Unfortunately the results may be something you do not want, but if you don't do the right thing, then at what cost will that decision come to. The impact on him might be so profound that it will head him into the right direction.

Yes, I think he should return the items of course. But how can I count on him doing it? It is not like I am there in school with him and can make sure he does return the items.

I think you need to go to school with him and return the things. Take all of the items to the teacher or the principal and have him hand them over. He won't learn anything by you covering this up for him :dunno:

Sure I asked for your opinions and I value and appreciate the input I get here. Otherwise I would not have asked in the first place.
I don't think we are hiding behind the ADHD factor. Kids with severe ADHD as yumi has it are unaware of a lot of the things they do. They often only learn from the reactions they receive from the people surrouding them.
I can give you an example that is unrelated to stealing. In the morning lots of kids have trouble getting ready for school etc. A regular kid will be able to tell you if s/he did a good job getting ready. Yumi bases his judgement on how we react. He would never be able to tell on his own if he did a good job getting ready (ie not spending 20 minutes on taking off the PJs). He lacks the ability to judge his actions sometimes.
So the question what is right and wrong, what are the boundaries is something that may come natural to a regular kid but needs to be TAUGHT to a kid with (severe) ADHD.
I find myself asking "What - doesn't he know that on his own?" and often the answer is... no.
Regarding stealing, Nava explained to me that their minds become blank, they see what they want and take it. Out of impulsiveness and not out of meanness. So I think regarding him there IS a difference.
ITA though with 2 things:
1) the kids whose things were stolen have been violated and should receive their things back.
2) he should learn the consequences of his actions.

I am still not sure how to go about it though.

About the writing exercise - as you know, not to steal is part of the 10 commandments. So what he wrote last night was regarding the laws of stealing. It said there that any person, no matter what age or gender, is held responsible when stealing. A person who sells stolen goods is given the death penalty by our laws (not today since we do not have the High Court). So reading and copying that made him realize how serious a crime it is. It is not mentioned in the 10 Commandments for nothing.

I seriously wish I didn't have to deal with this.
How can I help him return the items to thier owners if he doesn't remember/tell me who the owners are?

Please keep the input coming.

I thought the medication was supposed to help that :dunno:

Maybe you need to put him in a school that is more equiped to deal with children with these issues instead of going to a mainstream school that you have to duck and hide from so they don't throw you out. I wouldn't like to be at a place like that, and if it can't be controlled then isn't it just setting him up for failure? I would think that would be more practical. So when these situations occur, I would think they would handle these things better considering what you are saying about the severity of his ADHD.

The medications help a lot. They help him focus, enable him to learn, kill of the "background noise" if you will. You can definitely tell when he is on meds and when not.
But they do not solve behavioral issues. That is something that needs to be taught and learnt.
Also, the older he gets the less effective the meds get. He can't get a higher dosage since there isn't any. So it is important he learns how to cope with his situation now.

As for a special ed school - here the trend/key is integration and not separation. He is smarter than the average child (and is going to take a test that checks if he is elligible for the next level of the gifted kids program). Special ed schools here are mostly for kids with lower IQ.
There is a problem with the school system here, and with this school in particular. There is no denying it.

They often only learn from the reactions they receive from the people surrouding them.


Nadine, this stood out to me. I believe that Yumi owe's those other children thier things back and an appology. Even if you have to find numbers for each and every child and go to their home instead of at the school. IT is your responsibility as a parent and to those other children that Yumi do the right thing. You say that he will only learn from the reactions he receives then allow him to give the things back and get the reaction. I am not an authority on ADHD but I went through severl special education courses and wokred in a special needs school for the semesters of my college education and I can tell you that you are enabling him and your letting him use his ADHD as an excuss instead of making him take responsibility of his actions. He will do it again if he doesn't actually know that the steeling/action has a reaction.

The same line Jayne quoted stuck out for me, too. Specifically, imagine all the reactions he will get from each of the kids he stole from when he returns the things. Whether it is anger/disapproval or relief/gratitude that the things are being returned, you have the opportunity to show him a much wider circle of impact than if you soloey have him at home writing an essay.

He was a social outcast for years with no friends. That has finally improved in the past year. Doing that would bounce him right back.

Oh- and I wanted to add that we NEVER let things pass and let him know that it's because he has ADHD. It does not serve as an excuse in our house. (ie you don't have to do X or abide by rules Z because of your condition.)

Oh- and I wanted to add that we NEVER let things pass and let him know that it's because he has ADHD. It does not serve as an excuse in our house. (ie you don't have to do X or abide by rules Z because of your condition.)

In that case, what would you do if Shoham came home and had stolen all this stuff from her classmates?

What ever the disease, and even the situation..I am sorry your dealing with it but I really at this point believe that while you believe he would become a social outcast shouldn't be relavent. He needs to know that his actions have consequences and that those should fit what he has done. Right now a paper may make him responsible to you but not to anyone else and what is going to happen when what he does gets more out of control.

In that case, what would you do if Shoham came home and had stolen all this stuff from her classmates?
I don't know.
TG I am not dealing with issues like that with Shoham. And since I have enough on my plate I am not even going to start thinking about hypothetical situations.
We are not talking about a one time thing here. It is easy to return one thing IMO. Then you can show and teach a child "This is wrong." And people understand when a regular child slips.
Shoham has tons of friends, her teachers and everyone loves her. I have never heard negative comments about her. So if she were to steal, I think people wold let it slide.
(OK, I guess I have started thinking about it.)
But Yumi - I have never had a year in which he was loved for who he is by the teachers/staff or friends - unconditional without talks about him being "difficult". Never a year without any hard issues to deal with.
So when a kid like that slips- in a big way - people are NOT forgiving and this will stay with him for a long time.

I don't know. I agree w/ Jayne's post. ADHD or not, I would never let my child get away with that. You're essentially setting them up for failure by letting them know you're going to let them get away w/ it forever.

I definitely think he needs to know that there are consequences to his actions but I don't know that I would involve the school....yet. I just don't think it's worth risking him getting expelled, especially since that might really mess up his future. I think he needs to know that being expelled is a potential consequence but I would give him another chance. And he needs to know that this is his LAST chance. Schools can be very funny about things like this and it is a fine line to walk....
I think it's really, really important for him to see a therapist who can work with him on controlling his impulses. ADHD is not an excuse for doing things that are wrong but it is hard for Yumi to control his impulses. Some of his punishments seem like they are more appropriate for a younger child who doesn't fully understand consequences. A therapist may help you devise more effective means of teaching Yumi how to behave. Obviously, this problem needs to be resolved quickly because things will only get worse as he gets closer to his teenage years.
I hope things get better!

Amanda

Thanks for the input.

We are definitely thinking of getting him a therapist. We know we need to deal with these issues NOW and for good.

I don't know.
TG I am not dealing with issues like that with Shoham. And since I have enough on my plate I am not even going to start thinking about hypothetical situations.
We are not talking about a one time thing here. It is easy to return one thing IMO. Then you can show and teach a child "This is wrong." And people understand when a regular child slips.
Shoham has tons of friends, her teachers and everyone loves her. I have never heard negative comments about her. So if she were to steal, I think people wold let it slide.
(OK, I guess I have started thinking about it.)
But Yumi - I have never had a year in which he was loved for who he is by the teachers/staff or friends - unconditional without talks about him being "difficult". Never a year without any hard issues to deal with.
So when a kid like that slips- in a big way - people are NOT forgiving and this will stay with him for a long time.

He would also learn that trust has to be earned, and might make some better friendships in the end.

I worried about all of this when we thought Josh might have ADHD..I tried to put myself in the situation. I think our school however would not go as far as to expel. There are guidelines set up and I'm sure that it would have gotten him points on their system and Saturday school but I think in the long run, his peers/friends would forgive and forget about it and it would be a lesson learned for him especially.

I think also we are not talking about a 4 or 5 year old here..He is old enough to understand this even with the ADHD. Yes you might need to explain it more but he is not a baby and not a toddler or even a preschooler. He is forgive me if I am wrong (8) and needs to learn to be more responsible for his actions. I know I don't have a child with ADHD and that add's in a difficulty but Tylor has gone through this age..It isn't all the adhd. While he didn't steel he did go through a phase where he wasn't telling all the trueth and there were consequenses to his actions. DIRECT CONSEQUENSES

I have to say I agree with Jayne completely.

Also, what would you want to happen if another kid was stealing stuff from yumi? I really think he needs to return the things to the rightfull owners in order to make this right, I don't truly think there is another option.

If the only thing stopping you from doing the right thing towards the other children by returning their things, is him becoming an outcast again. Then to me that is not enough reason.

He will remain an outcast through out life if he steals from his friends. Eventually he will get caught. I would rather be an outcast because I owned up to a problem and apologised, than an outcast because I was caught in the act.

And although you can't see the benefits in the immediate future, in the long run it will help him merge into society as a functioning citizen because he learned the lesson early on that his actions have consequences.