AP with twins?

[JolieC]

Hi...we've just found out we have double the fun coming our way in June:), and I was wondering if anyone had any experience of AP with twins...the babywearing and things I think is going to be quite doable (although logistically interesting:lol: ), but what about cosleeping and things? I guess we'll figure out a way that suits the 4 of us (:love: ) when the babies get here, but I was wondering if anyone had any suggestions. Originally I had planned having a moses basket in our room for when baby was sleeping and we weren't in bed, but now I'm thinking with 2 it might be more practical to have a crib in there for them to sleep in, and we'll work out the cosleeping as it comes...or is cosleeping with 2 teenies a really crazy idea? I really want to minimise the impact of fewer cuddles and snuggle time that being one of 2 is inevitably going to result in...

I have always seen myself as instinctively AP, and am *very* fortunate that D is the same way, and although I know that twins are going to be a crazy amount of work, I don't really want to parent against my instincts..I don't think that will help anyone. So, is there any way of working loose schedules (that seem to be a necessity with twins) into the AP style?

Hmm...I guess I should see if there are any AP books for multiples...

[Stacy]

here's websites that might offer ideas...

http://members.tripod.com/~breastfeedingtwins/

http://www.twinsmagazine.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=33973 (http://www.twinsmagazine.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=33973)

books (http://http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0345422678/qid=1132281595/sr=1-3/ref=sr_1_3/102-1479966-6190518?v=glance&s=books)

http://www.questia.com/SM.qst?act=search&keywordsSearchType=1000&keywords=twins+attachment (http://www.questia.com/SM.qst?act=search&keywordsSearchType=1000&keywords=twins+attachment)

[Jillian]

I don't have twins, but I do think we have found a very effective method to co-sleep with two that would work with twins.

We have their cribs sidecarred, one on each side, Janelle usually actually sleeps in her crib now for most of the night...caid sleeps with DH still. BUT, they each have their own space, there is no danger of rolling out of bed, and their is no danger of them rolling onto eachother, and dh and I still get to sleep together and cuddle every night. I'd probably do it this way. I'd buy two co-sleepers, but start out with both the little ones in the same one on your side of the bed till they start rolling...then set up the other one on the otherside of the bed...then when they outgrow the co-sleepers you could do the crib thing, or move them to their nursery, or whatever.

I *think* Karri is pretty AP, no clue if she labels herself that way or not...but I lurk and occasionally post in her journal and she seems pretty AP to me. :dunno:

[Karri]

Hey Jo!
We never had the twins co-sleep with us because they were just too tiny and Elliott was on his apnea monitor. But we did have them sleep together for as long as they could fit that way (we turned them sideways and had them side by side in the crib till they were too long). I guess I would suggest sidecarring a crib to your bed and then putting them in there like that. Then you can just grab one at a time at night and do the BF thing.

Er - I had a really good breastfeeing multiples book. Let me find the title. I found that BFing at the same time during the day was best for me (but at night, one at a time), but I know that others, like Kelley, did them separately.

[Karri]

Mothering Multiples : Breastfeeding & Caring for Twins or More by Karen Kerkhoff Gromada (she was an LLL leader)

[Jillian]

Again, I don't have twins, but I have had experience (umm 20 months experience and counting) tandem nursing. It's went really well, though after about 4 months Caid decided he would never nurse off my right breast again, and since Janelle had made that same decision at 9 months old I haven't truly tandem nursed since. But to keep Caid from being jelous when Janelle would nurse I'd take Janelle into the den and nurse her while Caid layed on a blanket with toys, played in his bouncy seat, etc.

[JolieC]

thanks so much for the feedback! I think we'll definitely be trying the sidecarring with a crib and have them in next each other for as long as possible...I figure they're used to having each other around, and the big world is quite scary enough to start with without having to be away from their *other half*....

Karri - I've ordered that book - thanks!

Oh, and Karri, I completely forgot about Elliott's apnea monitor...it's hard to see them now and think of him and Norah as ever being anything but perfectly healthy, gorgeous little treasures!:)

[Hokieinmi]

I don't consider myself totally AP, but I did breastfeed both and would second the book that Karri recommended. My two would never tandem nurse... neither one would cooperate and it was faster for me to nurse one at a time... it worked out fine..

We had the kids sleeping together but not with us... we have a 100 lb lab in bed with us and I didn't feel that it was especially safe. There is a forum on www.thebabywearer.com (http://www.thebabywearer.com) specific to multiples where you could probably get some good recommendations on baby carriers that work well with two.

Good luck :)

[JolieC]

Thanks Susie - that's really helpful! I'll go and check out the babywearer site...

I'm a little nervous about them sleeping with us in our bed because of Stussy the cat - I figure I can definitely reinforce to her that the crib is a no-cat zone, and then wait to see how she reacts as to whether we have th ebabies in with us some of the time...:lol:Stussy might want nothing to do with us with 2 squawking babies in the room, and decide she quite likes sleeping out in the lounge after all.

Good to hear successful BF stories with twins - it must be so much more tricky than with singletons, but nice to hear that it can work, provided the the babies and your body aloows it, and universe aligns correctly etc etc!!!

[Karri]

Good to hear successful BF stories with twins - it must be so much more tricky than with singletons, but nice to hear that it can work, provided the the babies and your body aloows it, and universe aligns correctly etc etc!!!

I just kept thinking, "we're too poor to buy formula, we're too poor to buy formula" :lol:

[Hokieinmi]

I just kept thinking, "we're too poor to buy formula, we're too poor to buy formula" :lol:

You and me both :lol: Actually I did supplement with formula from the beginning ~ 1 bottle each per day. I know how much I spent... I can imagine doing that full time!!!

[JolieC]

I just kept thinking, "we're too poor to buy formula, we're too poor to buy formula" :lol:
:lol:Maybe I'll just get that tattooed somewhere!!!

[Cortney]

I'm not a mama of twins, but I *consider* myself to be AP- so I hope I can answer. :) I'm sure you know of mothering.com - alhthough some there are extreme, there are quite a few moms of twins who nursed (some extended!), co-sleep, babywear, etc. I'm sure they'd answer ANY question you had.

[Jennie]

I would also recommend emailing the mama who runs www.milkface.com (http://www.milkface.com) She's local to me and she & I know each other because of our twins. She tandem nursed (she's also a LLL) and she is a sling guru in my opinion - she used to carry both her girls around and she'd have lots of advice! Her name is Britt and she's awesome!

[Chana]

Hi There,

I'm not sure I'm "AP" - I don't know what I am, but I just tend to go with what my instincts tell me to do most of the time, so...

I just wanted to write and give you some of my experiences - I have six week old twin boys (my first children). I don't think you have to give up on "instinctive parenting" at all just because you have twins, but you do have to accept that there are times when you simply can not do things the way you would want to because you only have two arms.

Mine are exclusively breastfed, and I credit the fact that I'm able to do this to the fact that I knew it was going to be, and expected it to be, hard. There were times in the first two weeks I was so tempted to chuck in the towel and give them a bottle - it hurt, I was tired and I was the only one who could do it. My paed tried to have them on comp feeds from half an hour after they were born - as soon as I'd recovered from the birth enough to argue it, we dropped the comp feeds, and neither of them have had anything but Mummy's milk since their third day of life. They're both gaining weight steadily and amazed their Child Health Nurse, who assumed I must be supplementing their feeds! Nope - I've just accepted my role as a "dummy with legs" and allow them to nurse when necessary, for as long as necessary. I feel this has been a big factor in ensuring adequate supply - I don't mean to sound judgemental, but I hear quite a few mothers who feed "by the clock" complaining about inadequate supply. Mine generally feed every three hours, but yesterday for example, I had one or the other on the breast almost every 45 minutes for most of the afternoon. If you just accept this and go about your business, rather than fighting it, I think it's easier for everyone.

One of the things which had really worried me breastfeeding them was - I really wanted to demand feed, but at the same time knew I wouldn't be able to cope with demand feeding them both as having them on different schedules would me NO sleep for me. I knew I was going to have to wake one baby to nurse and that saddened me. However, I've found that being in a routine of nursing together (one on each breast!), the baby who needs to be woken is generally pretty ready to be fed anyway, and I've stopped feeling that I am not meeting his "demands".

Mine sleep together in the same cot (rather than our bed), but sometimes we have lovely morning feeds in Mummy and Daddy's bed - my husband brings whomever has woken first into our bed, I nurse him lying down and if the other one wakes while I am still feeding the first, Daddy cuddles him and entertains him while his brother finishes feeding. Then they swap, and I feed the second while Daddy cuddles the one who has just finished his meal.

Sometimes, if one is a bit unsettled during daytime naps but the other is sleeping, I just take that one to my bed so we both get some sleep. Or if I am not tired (or don't think he is tired enough to sleep!), I'll pop him in the sling and do some chores.

Sorry I am rambling on a bit - I guess what I am saying is that you can still do a lot of the things you want to do if you're flexible about meeting everyone's needs, yours included. Mine get sling time, fall asleep in my arms or beside me in bed, just perhaps they don't get as much of this as they might if they were single babies, but you can only do your very best.

Please feel free to PM me if I can give any further advice (heh, not that at 6 weeks I have a huge amount of parenting experience, but I'll do my best!!)

Chana

[Bev]

I really want to minimise the impact of fewer cuddles and snuggle time that being one of 2 is inevitably going to result in...

Being a twin, I can honestly say I don't remember if I had fewer cuddles and snuggle time than my sister did. And whatever happens, they won't know any different so they won't feel ripped off. :) Good luck!

[kalm]

I found that BFing at the same time during the day was best for me (but at night, one at a time), but I know that others, like Kelley, did them separately.

Actually, I nursed them almost exlusively together til Connor weaned at 15 months (Lilly kept it going til 21 months....and probably still would be nursing if I hadn't gently encouraged her to quit when I got pregnant again).

I definitely don't label myself AP (or non-AP for that matter), but I am more than happy to give you any advice on breastfeeding twins that you want/need. I had a really rough start to the breastfeeding relationship and sought advice everywhere (LLL, a LC, every woman I encountered who'd ever breastfed anyone :lol: ). I had a really great contact at LLL whose fourth and fifth children were twins. She'd breastfed all of the others til the self-weaned and was a leader in the local chapter, so pretty much an expert. She told me that she thought nursing twins was one of the hardest things she ever did....and that admission took away all of my frustration and feelings of inadequacy and lo and behold, success followed.

We didn't co-sleep (on purpose anyway. I fell asleep plenty of times with a babe on the breast...in fact that's pretty much the way I slept til they were six months old. I'd nurse one til the other woke, return the first to the basinett and sleep with the No. 2 til No. 1 woke again.

Okay, that was probably more information than you wanted at this point. :lol:

[Karri]

Sorry, Kelley. I must have been thinking of Susie. :crazy:

[Jennie]

You and me both :lol: Actually I did supplement with formula from the beginning ~ 1 bottle each per day. I know how much I spent... I can imagine doing that full time!!!

It'll put you in the poor house - we tried and tried to BF but they were so premature and had so many other issues, after 3.5 mths of pumping, I couldn't keep up and I swear to you, they were going through a case of concentrate a week at $30/wk was expensive. We dug ourselves into a hole that first year (among other things) and it took a while to dig back out.

[JolieC]

:lol:sorry for abandoning this thread...I managed to somehow unsubscribe myself...I can still pull the *pregnancy brain* card, right? Otherwise I'm screwed...and missing a small grey squishy thing that used to be in my skull!

[kalm]

No worries, Jol -- Just so you know, you get to pull the "mom of twins brain" card for the rest of your life! :lol:

[Pigglystix]

I'm finally re-subbing to OUAL ::jump2:

I consider myself more AP than anything although no, we didn't babywear or even breastfeed for very long (I tried but circumstances were such that it just never worked out). We did co-sleep for several months. They were older though, like 7 or 8 months old. The first 4 months they slept together in the pack n play in our room. Then around 4.5 months we moved them to their room and the co-slept there for another month or so.

It can be done - there's no doubt about that! I have a very AP friend who still bfs her twins and they are almost 18 months old. And I don't know that she's ever even owned a stroller :lol: She's got lightweight kids though :lol:

[JolieC]

Michelle~:woo:welcome back!!!!
Thanks for that - it's so great to hear everyone's success stories!!!

Oh, and a funny story for you all - we had part one of our antenatal class last night (put on by the local multiple birth association) - really fun and interesting, and loads of great examples of successful BF stories from the veteran twin moms who were there. One story really stuck in my mind though - there's one twin mum in the club who BF for 18 months (go her!) and exclusively demand fed...feeding an average of 17 times per day!!!!:faint: Holy crap!!!! It was good to hear though - D and I just looked at each other and I said *right, semi-schedule feeding will be fine for our kids!*...I'd been contemplating whether it was possible to do some demand feeding, since I agree with the whole feed-the-baby-when-they're-hungry-not-when-the-clock-says-to principle, but that is just nuts - I can see that that would just make things so much harder for everyone involved, and really, these babies need me to be (at least partly:lol: ) on the ball!!!

So, my plan is that when one wakes and is hungry, I'll wake the other and feed both (assuming all the while that BF goes off without a hitch, and I rock at tandem feeding:heee: )...that way maybe we can get onto a schedule of sorts that suits them, but is also at least partially baby-led. Do you think that's a viable option? As much as I would like to do the *no schedule, fit in with baby* approach, I'm fast beginning to realise that with 2 babies that's not going to create anything but an exhausted mommy (which is not a pretty thing!), and I think I need to try and make things easier on everyone where I can. Plus, semi-routine feeding isn't tantamount to child cruelty or locking the kids in the basement, right?:lol:I justrealised how melodramatic I made this all sound....ahh, pregnancy psychosis strikes again!:shuffle:

[Bev]

So, my plan is that when one wakes and is hungry, I'll wake the other and feed both (assuming all the while that BF goes off without a hitch, and I rock at tandem feeding:heee: )...that way maybe we can get onto a schedule of sorts that suits them, but is also at least partially baby-led. Do you think that's a viable option?

You aren't being melodramatic you're trying to figure things out! My Mom did not know until we were born that she was having twins so you're way ahead of her! :lol:

My Mom did not breastfeed us but what she did was feed the baby who woke up first, then if the other baby wasn't awake when she was done (usually was) she would wake that baby and feed her. It seemed to work. Then when we were on solids she had one dish and one spoon and two little mouths that she took turns between. The Nurses were horrified carrying on about germs and such and my Mom said "If one is getting sick I want the other one sick at the same time."

We were the first set of twins her Doctor ever delivered so she was a novelty at the Doctor's office. :)

[Hokieinmi]

My biggest advice to twin mom-to-be's is that you have to do what works for you.. if you have an ideal of what is going to work and aren't willing to compromise then you are going to make yourself miserable. Everyone told me how easy and convenient it was to tandem feed.... they just forgot to tell my kids :lol: They never liked it and it actually took me longer and caused more stress to try. So, I fed them one at a time. Sometimes I woke one but I quickly found that Abby was ready to sleep for a longer stretch than Drew so I could feed him, put him down, feed her, feed Drew when he woke up, feed Abby when she woke and the Drew was ready again. It gave me a few extra minutes of sleep that way.

So my advice... have a plan that includes lots of trial, error and flexibility! I have friends that fed on demand and I have friends that we schedule nazi's. I was somewhere in the middle. I liked to say that I had a routine... pretty much the same thing every day but not necessarily at the same time. That way I had flexibility if I wanted to get out and about and the kids would still go along with the routine whenever it happened.

You will figure it out :)

[Pigglystix]

Yeah we were somewhere in the middle too. One would wake up, I'd feed him/her and usually in the middle or towards the end of that feeding the other would wake up and I'd feed him/her then. Throughout the day I tried to pretty much feed them either simultaneously or at the very least one right after the other.

They were probably 6 or 7 months before they started dropping a very early morning feeding. Madelyn dropped it sooner so I'd let her sleep and I'd feed Logan. Then they'd both wake up at the same time later in the morning. That was really the only feeding that I didn't feed them both. I figured if one was ready to sleep through that feeding, then by all means, go for it sweetie!

But I agree with others - you have to be flexible and prepared for having to revert to plan b, c, d, etc. You'll find what works best for you and for your babies. Just remember that if you want advice, seek out the opinions of people that are like-minded - you'll need that support.

[Karri]

i agree that you have to not have a certain idea set in your mind. for us, it was weird. b/c they were in the nicu for so long, they were used to the every-3-hours schedule and refused to deter from it. so i had it hard in that they wouldnt be flexible. if we were out and about and hit that 3 hour mark, all hell would break loose. so usually i'd be prepared w/ 1 bottle of ebm and nurse the other. it was just too hard (tandem=being nekked up top!:lol: )and too long of a process to nurse both in public (plus worry about my toddler!) so i tended to make my trips out short.