First, I want to say that I'm sorry that ANYONE suffers infertility. It really just doesn't seem fair. My best friend has been TTC for 1.5 years and just finished her 2nd round of Clomid. She had a pg test yesterday. I'm assuming that since she hasn't called it was negative. Anyway, I just don't know how to help her any more. She's just totally shutting me out. She keeps throwing it back in my face that I don't know what she's going through because I've never been through it. (I do have 2 children, but the first one took almost a year to concieve. It's not like I just got pg on a whim or something.) That just breaks my heart. I keep wanting to reach out to her, but she won't let me. The fact that she hasn't called after her pg test is also breaking my heart. She's my best friend and I SO want to reach out to her, but I don't know how. :cry:

So, my question is: What do you want from you friends at this point? I want to reach out, but not if she doesn't want me to, kwim? Any help/advice would be appreciated.

For the record: We've been best friends for about 16 years and she's more like a sister to me than just a friend.

I hope that all made sense. :silly:

It's hard to say because sometimes just talking to you (someone who does have 2 wonderful children) can be hard for her. Not because of anything you've DONE, but because you are a reminder of what she wants and can't (YET) have.

The most important thing is to let her have her feelings, even if you don't understand them. When she's feeling hopeless and sad, don't try to gloss it over. The worst thing for me to hear in her position was "relax it will happen" or "you just have to be patient" It's like saying her feelings aren't valid.


I am not saying you've done any of those things, but I know that's what I hated hearing from my then best friend (who had 2 oops babies and a step daughter she was raising as her own).

Don't pretend to know how she feels, because even if you do, she won't see it that way. I know someone posted a great article on TOF about it. I'm going to go dig it up for you. It says things SO MUCH BETTER than I ever could ;)

here you go. Hopefully Brenda won't mind me posting this here:

Infertility Etiquette
By Vita Alligood

Chances are, you know someone who is struggling with infertility. More than five million people of childbearing age in the United States experience infertility. Yet, as a society, we are woefully uninformed about how to best provide emotional support for our loved ones during this painful time.

Infertility is, indeed, a very painful struggle. The pain is similar to the grief over losing a loved one, but it is unique because it is a recurring grief. When a loved one dies, he isn't coming back. There is no hope that he will come back from the dead. You must work through the stages of grief, accept that you will never see this person again, and move on with your life.

The grief of infertility is not so cut and dry. Infertile people grieve the loss of the baby that they may never know. They grieve the loss of that baby who would have had mommy's nose and daddy's eyes. But, each month, there is the hope that maybe that baby will be conceived after all. No matter how hard they try to prepare themselves for bad news, they still hope that this month will be different. Then, the bad news comes again, and the grief washes over the infertile couple anew. This process happens month after month, year after year. It is like having a deep cut that keeps getting opened right when it starts to heal.

As the couple moves into infertility treatments, the pain increases while the bank account depletes. Most infertility treatments involve using hormones, which alter the user's moods. (That statement is like calling a lion a cat-my husband would tell you that the side effect is insanity!) The tests are invasive and embarrassing to both parties, and you feel like the doctor has taken over your bedroom. And for all of this discomfort, you pay a lot of money. Infertility treatments are expensive, and most insurance companies do not cover the costs. So, in addition to the pain of not conceiving a baby each month, the couple pays out anywhere from $300 to five figures, depending upon the treatment used.

A couple will eventually resolve the infertility problem in one of three ways:

They will eventually conceive a baby.
They will stop the infertility treatments and choose to live without children.
They will find an alternative way to parent, such as by adopting a child or becoming a foster parent.

Reaching a resolution can take years, so your infertile loved ones need your emotional support during this journey. Most people don't know what to say, so they wind up saying the wrong thing, which only makes the journey so much harder for their loved ones. Knowing what not to say is half of the battle to providing support.

Don't Tell Them to Relax

Everyone knows someone who had trouble conceiving but then finally became pregnant once she "relaxed." Couples who are able to conceive after a few months of "relaxing" are not infertile. By definition, a couple is not diagnosed as "infertile" until they have tried unsuccessfully to become pregnant for a full year. In fact, most infertility specialists will not treat a couple for infertility until they have tried to become pregnant for a year. This year weeds out the people who aren't infertile but just need to "relax." Those that remain are truly infertile.

Comments such as "just relax" or "try going on a cruise" create even more stress for the infertile couple, particularly the woman. The woman feels like she is doing something wrong when, in fact, there is a good chance that there is a physical problem preventing her from becoming pregnant.

These comments can also reach the point of absurdity. As a couple, my husband and I underwent two surgeries, numerous inseminations, hormone treatments, and four years of poking and prodding by doctors. Yet, people still continued to say things like, "If you just relaxed on a cruise . . ." Infertility is a diagnosable medical problem that must be treated by a doctor, and even with treatment, many couples will NEVER successfully conceive a child. Relaxation itself does not cure medical infertility.

Don't Minimize the Problem

Failure to conceive a baby is a very painful journey. Infertile couples are surrounded by families with children. These couples watch their friends give birth to two or three children, and they watch those children grow while the couple goes home to the silence of an empty house. These couples see all of the joy that a child brings into someone's life, and they feel the emptiness of not being able to experience the same joy.

Comments like, "Just enjoy being able to sleep late . . . .travel . . etc.," do not offer comfort. Instead, these comments make infertile people feel like you are minimizing their pain. You wouldn't tell somebody whose parent just died to be thankful that he no longer has to buy Father's Day or Mother's Day cards. Losing that one obligation doesn't even begin to compensate for the incredible loss of losing a parent. In the same vein, being able to sleep late or travel does not provide comfort to somebody who desperately wants a child.

Don't Say There Are Worse Things That Could Happen

Along the same lines, don't tell your friend that there are worse things that she could be going through. Who is the final authority on what is the "worst" thing that could happen to someone? Is it going through a divorce? Watching a loved one die? Getting raped? Losing a job?

Different people react to different life experiences in different ways. To someone who has trained his whole life for the Olympics, the "worst" thing might be experiencing an injury the week before the event. To someone who has walked away from her career to become a stay-at-home wife for 40 years, watching her husband leave her for a younger woman might be the "worst" thing. And, to a woman whose sole goal in life has been to love and nurture a child, infertility may indeed be the "worst" thing that could happen.

People wouldn't dream of telling someone whose parent just died, "It could be worse: both of your parents could be dead." Such a comment would be considered cruel rather than comforting. In the same vein, don't tell your friend that she could be going through worse things than infertility.

Don't Say They Aren't Meant to Be Parents

One of the cruelest things anyone ever said to me is, "Maybe God doesn't intend for you to be a mother." How incredibly insensitive to imply that I would be such a bad mother that God felt the need to divinely sterilize me. If God were in the business of divinely sterilizing women, don't you think he would prevent the pregnancies that end in abortions? Or wouldn't he sterilize the women who wind up neglecting and abusing their children? Even if you aren't religious, the "maybe it's not meant to be" comments are not comforting. Infertility is a medical condition, not a punishment from God or Mother Nature.

Don't Ask Why They Aren't Trying IVF

In vitro fertilization (IVF) is a method in which the woman harvests multiple eggs, which are then combined with the man's sperm in a petri dish. This is the method that can produce multiple births. People frequently ask, "Why don't you just try IVF?" in the same casual tone they would use to ask, "Why don't you try shopping at another store?"

There are many reasons why a couple would choose not to pursue this option. Here are a few of them.

IVF is Expensive with Low Odds
One cycle of IVF is very expensive. With all of the hype in the news, many people assume that IVF is a sure thing when, in fact, the odds of success for each cycle are low. Most couples cannot afford to try for one month, much less for multiple times. Considering that it also costs a significant amount of money to adopt a baby, many couples opt for the "sure thing" rather then risking their money on much lower odds.

IVF is Physically Taxing
Undergoing IVF treatments is very rigorous. The woman must inject shots into her thigh daily to cause her ovaries to superovulate. The drugs used are very taxing on the woman, and they can cause her to be become extremely emotional.

IVF Raises Ethical Issues
Ironically, couples who undergo IVF to become parents may have to selectively abort one or more fetuses if multiple eggs are fertilized. Many couples cannot bring themselves to abort a baby when they have worked so hard to become parents. If the couple chooses not to selectively abort, they run the risk of multiple births.

Don't Offer Unsolicited Opinions If They Are Trying IVF

On the flip side of the coin, don't offer unsolicited advice to your friends who do choose to try IVF. For many couples, IVF is the only way they will ever give birth to a baby. This is a huge decision for them to make, for all of the reasons I outlined above.

If the couple has resolved any ethical issues, don't muddy the waters. IVF is a gray area in many ethical circles, and many of our moral leaders don't yet know how to answer the ethical questions that have arisen from this new technology. If the couple has resolved these issues already, you only make it harder by raising the ethical questions again. Respect their decision, and offer your support. If you can't offer your support due to ethical differences of opinion, then say nothing.

A couple who chooses the IVF route has a hard, expensive road ahead, and they need your support more than ever. The hormones are no cakewalk, and the financial cost is enormous. Your friend would not be going this route if there were an easier way, and the fact that she is willing to endure so much is further proof of how much she truly wants to parent a child. The hormones will make her more emotional, so offer her your support and keep your questions to yourself.

Don't Play Doctor

Once your infertile friends are under a doctor's care, the doctor will run them through numerous tests to determine why they aren't able to conceive. There a numerous reasons that a couple may not be able to conceive. Here are a few of them:

Blocked fallopian tubes
Cysts
Endometriosis
Low hormone levels
Low "normal form" sperm count
Low progesterone level
Low sperm count
Low sperm motility
Thin uterine walls

Infertility is a complicated problem to diagnose, and reading an article or book on infertility will not make you an "expert" on the subject. Let your friends work with their doctor to diagnose and treat the problem. Your friends probably already know more about the causes and solutions of infertility than you will ever know.

You may feel like you are being helpful by reading up on infertility, and there is nothing wrong with learning more about the subject. The problem comes when you try to "play doctor" with your friends. They already have a doctor with years of experience in diagnosing and treating the problem. They need to work with and trust their doctor to treat the problem. You only complicate the issue when you throw out other ideas that you have read about. The doctor knows more about the causes and solutions; let your friends work with their doctor to solve the problem.

Don't Be Crude

It is appalling that I even have to include this paragraph, but some of you need to hear this-Don't make crude jokes about your friend's vulnerable position. Crude comments like "I'll donate the sperm" or "Make sure the doctor uses your sperm for the insemination" are not funny, and they only irritate your friends.

Don't Complain About Your Pregnancy

This message is for pregnant women-Just being around you is painful for your infertile friends. Seeing your belly grow is a constant reminder of what your infertile friend cannot have. Unless an infertile women plans to spend her life in a cave, she has to find a way to interact with pregnant women. However, there are things you can do as her friend to make it easier.

The number one rule is DON'T COMPLAIN ABOUT YOUR PREGNANCY. I understand from my friends that, when you are pregnant, your hormones are going crazy and you experience a lot of discomfort, such as queasiness, stretch marks, and fatigue. You have every right to vent about the discomforts to any one else in your life, but don't put your infertile friend in the position of comforting you.

Your infertile friend would give anything to experience the discomforts you are enduring because those discomforts come from a baby growing inside of you. When I heard a pregnant woman complain about morning sickness, I would think, "I'd gladly throw up for nine straight months if it meant I could have a baby." When a pregnant woman would complain about her weight gain, I would think, "I would cut off my arm if I could be in your shoes."

I managed to go to baby showers and hospitals to welcome my friends' new babies, but it was hard. Without exception, it was hard. Stay sensitive to your infertile friend's emotions, and give her the leeway that she needs to be happy for you while she cries for herself. If she can't bring herself to hold your new baby, give her time. She isn't rejecting you or your new baby; she is just trying to work her way through her pain to show sincere joy for you. The fact that she is willing to endure such pain in order to celebrate your new baby with you speaks volumes about how much your friendship means to her.

Don't Treat Them Like They Are Ignorant

For some reason, some people seem to think that infertility causes a person to become unrealistic about the responsibilities of parenthood. I don't follow the logic, but several people told me that I wouldn't ache for a baby so much if I appreciated how much responsibility was involved in parenting.

Let's face it-no one can fully appreciate the responsibilities involved in parenting until they are, themselves, parents. That is true whether you successfully conceived after one month or after 10 years. The length of time you spend waiting for that baby does not factor in to your appreciation of responsibility. If anything, people who have been trying to become pregnant longer have had more time to think about those responsibilities. They have also probably been around lots of babies as their friends started their families.

Perhaps part of what fuels this perception is that infertile couples have a longer time to "dream" about what being a parent will be like. Like every other couple, we have our fantasies-my child will sleep through the night, would never have a tantrum in public, and will always eat his vegetables. Let us have our fantasies. Those fantasies are some of the few parent-to-be perks that we have-let us have them. You can give us your knowing looks when we discover the truth later.

Don't Gossip About Your Friend's Condition

Infertility treatments are very private and embarrassing, which is why many couples choose to undergo these treatments in secret. Men especially are very sensitive to letting people know about infertility testing, such as sperm counts. Gossiping about infertility is not usually done in a malicious manner. The gossipers are usually well-meaning people who are only trying to find out more about infertility so they can help their loved ones.

Regardless of why you are sharing this information with someone else, it hurts and embarrasses your friend to find out that Madge the bank teller knows what your husband's sperm count is and when your next period is expected. Infertility is something that should be kept as private as your friend wants to keep it. Respect your friend's privacy, and don't share any information that your friend hasn't authorized.

Don't Push Adoption (Yet)

Adoption is a wonderful way for infertile people to become parents. (As an adoptive parent, I can fully vouch for this!!) However, the couple needs to work through many issues before they will be ready to make an adoption decision. Before they can make the decision to love a "stranger's baby," they must first grieve the loss of that baby with Daddy's eyes and Mommy's nose. Adoption social workers recognize the importance of the grieving process. When my husband and I went for our initial adoption interview, we expected the first question to be, "Why do you want to adopt a baby?" Instead, the question was, "Have you grieved the loss of your biological child yet?" Our social worker emphasized how important it is to shut one door before you open another.

You do, indeed, need to grieve this loss before you are ready to start the adoption process. The adoption process is very long and expensive, and it is not an easy road. So, the couple needs to be very sure that they can let go of the hope of a biological child and that they can love an adopted baby. This takes time, and some couples are never able to reach this point. If your friend cannot love a baby that isn't her "own," then adoption isn't the right decision for her, and it is certainly not what is best for the baby.

Mentioning adoption in passing can be a comfort to some couples. (The only words that ever offered me comfort were from my sister, who said, "Whether through pregnancy or adoption, you will be a mother one day.") However, "pushing" the issue can frustrate your friend. So, mention the idea in passing if it seems appropriate, and then drop it. When your friend is ready to talk about adoption, she will raise the issue herself.

So, what can you say to your infertile friends? Unless you say "I am giving you this baby," there is nothing you can say that will erase their pain. So, take that pressure off of yourself. It isn't your job to erase their pain, but there is a lot you can do to lesson the load. Here are a few ideas.

Let Them Know That You Care

The best thing you can do is let your infertile friends know that you care. Send them cards. Let them cry on your shoulder. If they are religious, let them know you are praying for them. Offer the same support you would offer a friend who has lost a loved one. Just knowing they can count on you to be there for them lightens the load and lets them know that they aren't going through this alone.

Remember Them on Mother's Day

With all of the activity on Mother's Day, people tend to forget about women who cannot become mothers. Mother's Day is an incredibly painful time for infertile women. You cannot get away from it-There are ads on the TV, posters at the stores, church sermons devoted to celebrating motherhood, and all of the plans for celebrating with your own mother and mother-in-law.

Mother's Day is an important celebration and one that I relish now that I am a mother. However, it was very painful while I was waiting for my baby. Remember your infertile friends on Mother's Day, and send them a card to let them know you are thinking of them. They will appreciate knowing that you haven't "forgotten" them.

Support Their Decision to Stop Treatments

No couple can endure infertility treatments forever. At some point, they will stop. This is an agonizing decision to make, and it involves even more grief. Even if the couple chooses to adopt a baby, they must still first grieve the loss of that baby who would have had mommy's nose and daddy's eyes.

Once the couple has made the decision to stop treatments, support their decision. Don't encourage them to try again, and don't discourage them from adopting, if that is their choice. Once the couple has reached resolution (whether to live without children, adopt a child, or become foster parents), they can finally put that chapter of their lives behind them. Don't try to open that chapter again.

First off, you are a good friend to seek out advice from others who know what your friend is feeling.

I can tell you that your friend's life is quite possibly OVERSHADOWED by her infertility. IF has plagued me for the last 4-1/2 years and there has not been one single day that's passed when it is not one of the major things on my mind. Every day. I can't begin to describe for you what it's like to grow up dreaming of your family only to find out that your lifetime dreams may never be realized. It rocks your world like you wouldn't believe.

I have a few pieces of advice for you (hope you don't mind):

Send you friend a card. Send a really gushy one that tells her how much you love her. Let her know that you want to be there for her. Let her know that although you cannot know her pain, it still breaks your heart. She loves you and she doesn't want to shut you out.
Make plans to do something with her, just the two of you. It is painful for her to deal with this on her own - and trust me, she feels ALL ALONE - but being faced with your family may be more difficult for her. Leave all talk of kids behind.
EDUCATE YOURSELF. Read everything you can find about IF (this is a good place to get that education). Understand the different steps, tests, and terms. Ask questions here if you need to - some of us are EXPERTS. :nod: Your friend won't talk to you about what's going on if she has to start from the beginning every time she tells you anything.
Please don't take your friend's distance as anything personal, it's not. I have had many painful things happen in my life but nothing has caused more pain than IF. Most important of all, let your friend take the lead. I'd advise you to prompt her a little here and there but if she rebuffs you, just let her know that you are there if she needs you - even if it's just to hold her hand while the two of you cry together.

Oh yeah - one other thing! Tell her about a great place where there are other women who are going through what she's going through - RIGHT HERE!! She can read and post in the IF threads without being a member and we'd LOVE to welcome her with OPEN ARMS!! I hate to think of her feeling so all alone right now!

here you go. Hopefully Brenda won't mind me posting this here:

Don't worry Andrea, I'm sure Brenda won't mind. That's been around the boards for years!! :biggrin:

Thanks for the advice, Everyone! :grouphugg I've been riding the TTC roller coaster for about 2 years with Chantal. Believe me! I know more about that woman's cycles than I ever wanted to! :lol:

My friend and I talked last night and both had a good cry. I figure the best thing to do is just listen. I've invited her to this site many times before, but she doesn't seem interested. :dunno:

Thanks again!

Theresa- You are a great friend for coming here and trying to find a way to help her. I know I would appreciate one of my friends caring that much. :bighug: I think people just think it will happen someday so they don't understand the impact it has on our lives.

Theresa... I don't know what to add here... Suzi and Andrea have summed it all up pretty well.


You are an amazing friend. I have been in Dawn's shoes so many fricken times - that I am now numb to it all. It still pains me like nothing else to see another cycle end (the annovulatory ones are the REAL killers)... and remain not pregnant.

I agree, Suzi and Andrea have summed it up really well. :nod:

I would like to add one more thing that I've found difficult:

When my feelings aren't validated, it's so hurtful. It has pretty much put me at a point of not wanting to express myself to anyone anymore. If she doesn't want to go to another friends baby shower, don't tell her that's silly. If she starts crying after seeing a pregnant woman, don't tell her that she better get used to it. If she's having a rotten day or set of days, don't assume that she's crazy and tell her that she needs some psychological help. (Unless of course she is hurting herself and you do believe she needs more counceling than you can offer). That in particular always hurts me because I have a lot of bright and happy days and then for the few days where I'm having a tough time, I feel like everyone thinks that I'm about to, unjustifibly, getting ready to loose it. :crazy: The only thing I can compare it to is a friend of mine who lost her husband 3 years ago to Hepititis. She has many good days. .goes to work, goes to parties, movies, is helping her kids prepare for college. . .and for those moments or days when she's teary eyed, she deserves it for herself and she shouldn't be told she needs therapy when in fact, having a rough time (like during the Holidays) is completely normal.

I highly doubt you would ever say these things to your friend because you seem very caring and just in posting here, you're being a great friend. I only mention these things here because these have all happened to me with woman who normally, are very caring people.

I wish your friend all the best and a speedy resolution. . .whatever that may be.

First I would like to say, there could be many reasons why your friend can't conceive. Many doctors are very ignorant and hand out Clomid like it is candy, I know this from personal experience. Contrary to popular belief conceiving isn't so simple the bodies hormones need to be correct, it is more complex then many people know. Has your friend had thyroid blood work done? It is possible she could have Poly Cystic Ovarian Syndrome? Cushing's syndrome/disease? Many doctors don't check these things out, believe me I know. I have PCOS, Cushings syndrome, and I am hypothyroid. I am 31 right now and can say I have seen numerous OB/GYN's and Endocrinologist's. I know when I was trying to conceive with my first husband it was a nightmare, my body hormonally was a mess and the GYN didn't check my thyroid levels before giving me clomid and called 3 days later and said my thyroid levels were off and this was the problem. Well it was a partial problem. In the end after 2 years my ex husband (now) left and married his ex girlfriend and had 2 kids immediately. Infertility is a very depressing thing, I know I felt like no one could understandwhat I was going through. I remarried 3 years ago and conceived on my honeymoon (I had a GYn give me Clomid after the honeymoon without giving me a pregnancy test!!!). The human body is a strange thing. My daughter Carmella is now 2 and a half, I haven't used bc since having her and haven't conceived. My point is if one part of the body is out of whack that is all it takes to stop the body from conceiving. But imagine 10 years of trying to conceive and then surprise!!! Try speaking with your friend about the tests the doctors have done on her, mention what I have told you. My mother is a doctor and she said herself if I can conceive with all of my medical problems, then almost anyone can. Please email me if you like, I am very up to date on infertility problems, and I have been on the other side of the fence. And when I was, I was severely depressed and miserable I hated everyone. I know what your friend is going through, it is so frustrating. If I can be of any help please don't hesitate to email me: CarmellaRose2003@aol.com Also ask her if she has tried Metformin, she might have an insulin ressitancy. The list goes on but the question is have the doctors done a thorough workup on her, I personally doubt it especially with the way medicine is today and the insurance companys don't like to pay. Take care and please let me know how your friend is making out.

:wavey: I have a 2 y/o whose middle name is Carmella ;)

Kerrie, Thanks! :hug99: I'm trying hard to be sensitive to her and how much this is affecting her.

Chantal, :hug99:

Goo, (I'm sorry. I don't know your real name. :blush1: ) Thanks for the advice. I definitely validate her feelings. One of her cousin's had a baby and she didn't want to go to the Christening because she knew her family would all be asking when she was going to have a baby. I told her to just not go. No one would have to know why she wasn't going. But she went and it was so hard. It kills me so much to see her putting herself through so much pain. :(

Carmella's Mommy, Actually she's being treated by a really good RE. She's been diagnosed with PCOS and is on Metformin for insulin resistancy. She's going to see the doc tomorrow and find out what the next step is.

Thank you all again! :grouphugg I'll let you all know how she makes out!

Theresa you are such a great friend! Your friend is very lucky to have you.:) Andrea, Kimberly and Suzi really covered it all. I just wanted to add that I never call anyone the day I get my bad news. Except my DH. Not even my sister,my best friend. I hate crying and breaking down in front of people. The first day I am very emotional so I don't call anyone. After a day or two then I call around to tell the news. I'm sure that is all your friend was doing. I'm sure she was so sad and emotional that she just couldn't talk, to anyone.

But you are awesome for trying so hard. I think going out with her to lunch or whatever is a great idea. Getting out alone will be nice for both of you.:)

Sarah

Thanks, Sarah! :hug99: I would love to take her out just the 2 of us, but she lives 2 hours away, so it's a little hard. :lol:

Update: She went back to the RE. She's going to do this current cycle with Clomid and be monitored every other day by u/s. When she's 36 hours from ovulation, she has to give herself an injection. I so hope this works for her. She's going to do that for 2 cycles and if it doesn work, her doc wants to try Clomid and IUI for 2 cycles. Hopefully, she'll be pg very soon! :crossfing :pray:

I just wanted to come share that my friend is pg!! I found in November and just never thought to come post it here! I'm so happy for her! She and her DH did it with no medical intervention, too! :woo: I know that was really important for her. They even asked me to be the baby's godmother! I'm so honored! She's due July 14.

I want to thank you all again! And I pray you all get a :bfp: soon! :grouphugg:

:supergrin That is awesome news Theresa!!! Congratulations to your friend!! :)