Once Upon a Life - IVF Buddies - Sept/Oct/Nov/Dec 2004

Suzi

September 4th, 2004, 10:47 PM

Hey Brenda, this is pretty interesting and may be worth taking to your RE...

Copied from http://www.storknet.com/cubbies/infertility/exgs1.htm

Viagra Assisting With Blood Flow to the Uterus
by Geoffrey Sher, M.D.

http://www.storknet.com/guests/images/drsher.jpgQ. Can you share more regarding your opinion about Viagra assisting with blood flow to the uterus and lining thickness? Is it similar to baby aspirin or more effective? How can one introduce the idea to an RE who may be unaware of this treatment option?

A. It is far more effective. BUT alas "there are none so blind as those that will not see!"

In 1989, we were among the first to show that in normal and "stimulated" cycles, pre-ovulatory endometrial thickness and ultrasound appearance, is predictive of embryo implantation (pregnancy) potential following In Vitro Fertilization/Embryo Transfer (IVF/ET). With conventional IVF (where the woman receives fertility drugs and has her own fresh embryos transferred to her uterus), here needs to be a 9mm sagital thickness (Grade 2) and a triple line appearance (Grade A) accordingly, a Grade 2A lining is optimal in such cases. Anything less is associated with about a five- (5) fold reduction in live birth rate per ET. An exception to this rule seems to apply for third party embryo Recipients (Ovum donation, IVF-Surrogacy) and in cases of frozen embryo transfers (i.e., where the recipient receives supplementary estrogen/progesterone and not gonadotropins, to prepare the uterine lining. Here, a lining of 8mm thickness seems to be adequate.

A "poor" endometrial lining most commonly occurs in women with a history of unexplained recurrent IVF failures or early recurrent miscarriages and is usually attributable to: 1) inflammation of the uterine lining (endometrium), i.e., endometritis (occurring following a septic delivery, abortion or miscarriage), 2) adenomyosis (gross invasion of the uterine muscle by endometrial glandular tissue), 3) multiple fibroid tumors of the uterine wall, 4) prenatal exposure to the synthetic hormone, diethylstilbestrol (DES) and, 4) in women who have received clomiphene citrate (Clomid, Serophene) for at least 3 months in a row without a resting cycle (this effect is self-reversible within 4-6 weeks of discontinuing clomiphene).

Hitherto, attempts to augment endometrial growth in women with poor endometrial linings by bolstering circulating estrogen blood levels (through the administration of increased doses of fertility drugs, aspirin administration and by supplementary estrogen therapy) yielded disappointing results.

In 1995/96, we began to recognize that it was possible to improve endometrial development in women who had "poor uterine linings," by the daily application of nitroglycerine skin patches during ovarian stimulation with fertility drugs. We believed that the therapeutic effect was probably attributable to the local action of nitric oxide (NO) on the uterine vasculature, leading to improved endometrial blood flow and enhanced delivery of estrogen to the uterine lining. About 75% of our IVF patients with compromised uterine linings so treated with nitroglycerine skin patches, showed a marked improvement in estrogen-induced endometrial growth and many went on to achieve viable pregnancies. Unfortunately the lack of access to ultrasound color flow Doppler (UCFD) to measure uterine blood flow at the time precluded us from confirming that the observed enhancement in endometrial development was directly attributable to enhancement of uterine blood flow. Accordingly we did not publish these findings.

The high incidence of unpleasant side effects associated with nitroglycerine therapy (e.g. severe headaches, nausea, and light-headedness brought about by fluctuations in blood pressure) resulted in poor patient tolerance. Accordingly, when Sildenafil (Viagra) was shown to facilitate penile erection through increasing penile blood flow, without eliciting bothersome side effects, we decided to investigate whether this drug could replace nitroglycerine for the improvement of endometrial development. This time, with ready access to UCFD, we set out to examine for a cause and effect relationship between Viagra-induced enhancement of uterine blood flow and improved endometrial growth in women with poor endometrial development.

We elected to incorporate Viagra into vaginal suppositories in an attempt to improve local uterine absorption and minimize the incidence of systemic side effects. To this end, we enlisted the services of a compound pharmacist and began testing the effect of vaginally administered Viagra on uterine blood flow and on estrogen-induced endometrial development. Four women with chronic histories of poor endometrial development and failure to conceive following several advanced fertility treatments were evaluated for a period of 4-6 weeks and then underwent IVF with concomitant Viagra therapy. Viagra vaginal suppositories were administered four times daily for 8-11 days and were discontinued 5-7 days prior to embryo transfer in all cases.

We reported on our findings in a preliminary study, published in the prestigious journal, Human Reproduction (April 2000). The findings clearly demonstrated that vaginal Viagra produced a rapid and profound improvement in uterine blood flow and that this was followed by enhanced endometrial development in all four cases. While three of the four women subsequently conceived, the study is too small to prove that these pregnancies can be attributed to the Viagra therapy. Larger independent and controlled studies will be needed to demonstrate this. In a manuscript which appeared in Fertility & Sterility (The official journal of The American Society of Reproductive Medicine) in October 2002, we reported on the administration of vaginal Viagra to 105 women with repeated IVF failure due to persistently thin endometrial linings. All of the women had experienced at least two (2) prior IVF failures attributed to intractably thin uterine linings. About 70% of these women responded to treatment with Viagra suppositories with a marked improvement in endometrial thickness and 45% of these achieved live IVF-births following a single cycle of treatment with Viagra. 9% miscarried. None of the women who had failed to achieve an improvement in endometrial thickness following Viagra subsequently and underwent embryo transfers in the same cycle during which Viagra was administered, achieved viable pregnancies. Our very first patient to achieve a live birth following Viagra treatment subsequently again conceived following IVF where Viagra was administered and has since delivered a healthy baby (a girl this time), at full term.

BrenS

September 5th, 2004, 12:23 AM

yeah... I've talked to others who used viagra... and some had good response... and some didn't. It seems the viagra is a suppository, so if used, you can't use the estrace vaginally. The viagra actually over powers the estrodial. So you have to do estrodial INJECTIONS.. which you can't stop. so you're doing two injections in Oil twice a day... plus progesterone in oil injections. Lovely.

If we do get canceled... I will demand to see my doctor ASAP... this is just rediculas.

Suzi

September 5th, 2004, 01:28 PM

Hmmm.... When do you go back? I have my fingers crossed for you! :crossfing

BrenS

September 5th, 2004, 01:49 PM

Wednesday. I started taking red raspberry leaf tea capsules.. and baby aspirin. Hope it helps.

Bev

September 5th, 2004, 04:23 PM

Hello Everyone. I am new to this section of the board. I am 38 and have had two pregnancies on my own with no difficulty conceiving. The first pregnancy at age 34½ resulted in Mason and the second at 36½ resulted in a complete molar pregnancy; it required 2 D&Cs and 12 shots of methotrexate to get rid of it.

I had to wait 6 months after the chemo to TTC. Normally it is 12 months but my Gyn-Onc was terrific and said due to my age and general good health and good response to the chemo I could start early. Thank Goodness because I just found out that now I don't ovulate without Clomid and DH's sperm totally suck! I don't know how all that happened, but whatever.

I had one round of IUI on Aug 18 which was unsuccessful. My OB/GYN said he wouldn't do another one due to DH's sperm so he is referring me to a fertility clinic about 2 hours from here for ICSI.

I don't know any of the medical terms or anything. I am just waiting to get started on the rigmarole. The only thing I know about ICSI is that my girlfriend had ICSI 5 years ago and she had boy/girl twins on the first try. :) I hope we all have the same good luck she had. :)

Bev

September 5th, 2004, 04:26 PM

Oh yeah, do you always have to take BCPs before doing IVF?

Suzi

September 6th, 2004, 01:11 AM

My OB/GYN said he wouldn't do another one due to DH's sperm so he is referring me to a fertility clinic about 2 hours from here for ICSI.

Hi Beverly, wecome aboard! Actually, your next step is IVF. ICSI is a small additional procedure done in relation to IVF to fertilize your eggs when DH's sperm count is so low. It isn't actually a stand-alone procedure. There's an awful lot to IVF - procedures, drugs, schedules, checks, etc...before too long you will be an old pro!

As for me, I am 5 days from starting Lupron and boy am I getting antsy. I get this knot in my gut when I start to think about it - presumably from the last two bad turn-outs. We had to take a loan against our 401K last week (we took the maximum amount) and after this, we have pretty much exhausted our ability to pay for IVFs. We have a lot riding on this cycle - I guess it kinda scares me.

Brenda, I have been thinking about you. I really hope you get good improvements early this week and that your transfer goes without any more trouble.

Suzi

September 6th, 2004, 01:15 AM

Oh yeah, do you always have to take BCPs before doing IVF?
No you don't but I think more REs use them than don't. They help to ensure that your ovaries don't have leftover follicles from previous cycles. Also helps RE gain control over your hormones.

My RE talked to me about BCPs and that there is data that suggests cycles preceded by BCP have slightly higher success rates.

Feel free to ask any questions you might have - I think between me, Kimberly, and Brenda we can come up with an answer for you! :lol: I wish you the best of luck!

Bev

September 6th, 2004, 11:51 AM

Well Suzi, I hope this is your cycle. :) I was talking to my girlfriend last night, and she was so sick because she had ovarian hyperstimulation. They had retrieved a ton of eggs from her. She was lucky and everything worked the first time. She did not have to do BCP first. I'll post more when I know about my appointments.

Suzi

September 8th, 2004, 03:28 PM

Brenda, I've been thinking of you today - how did your appointment go??

BrenS

September 8th, 2004, 03:35 PM

Hi Suzi...

The nurse called a little while ago.

Basically it's like this.

My uterus has a mind of it's own. It was the same thickness. They even sent 3 doctors down there to look at the ultrasound themselves.
If anything.. it was a little thinner, but she said since I haven't had any bleeding, it can't be.. so they think it was just because a different person did the measuring.

I Stay on the lovely Lupron and Estrace until MONDAY. On Monday, if my lining has increased, we'll keep going. If it has NOT increased on Monday, they're going to convert this cycle into a "trial cycle".
I'll stop the lupron and start progesterone, and after 10 days of progesterone, they'll do a Inter-Uterine Biopsy. She said they go in thru the cervix and scrape out a little piece of my uterine lining, and they look at the cells and they run a bunch of tests on it.. including one with a "dead" embryo (someone else's, I think) to see if it bounces around on the lining or settles in.

She said sometimes people just have extra thin linings, but it's perfectly fine and with progesterone it gets to where it needs to be.

If the testing comes out ok.. meaning the cells are fine, we'll do another FET round once I get a period again.

If the testing ISN'T ok.... and this is the scary part. If there's something WRONG with the cells completely.. no baby for us unless we use a surrogate for our embryo's.

If the cells are ok but maybe we just need to change meds to build a lining, or do something else.. like heperin injections... then we'll do that too. Whatever it takes I guess.

SO I guess we'll find out what the plan is on Monday.

BrenS

September 8th, 2004, 03:36 PM

And can I just say that I am SICK of being on this lupron/estrace combo? I can't smell food cooking or I'm ill. Can't eat anything even remotely related to meat.

(and they want me to up the Red Meat intake.. OY)

Suzi

September 8th, 2004, 04:54 PM

Oh man...I am sorry! I hope that things really are fine and that all this concern has been for nothing. I feel for you on the red meat...I can't imaging how awful! :rolleyes:

Bev

September 8th, 2004, 06:34 PM

Oh Brenda, how awful! :( I hope they figure this out soon and it is just a matter of changing your meds or something. :crossfing

Goo

September 9th, 2004, 07:06 PM

Hi ladies. :wavey:

I'm just stepping again after a brief MIA due to one crazy thing after the other and a major lack of sleep. :mope:

Bev~Welcome. I wish you all the best.

Brens~Gosh regarding your lining. I'm so glad that your doctors are willing to go the extra mile to do more investigation. With all 6 of my failed IVFs :rolleyes: my fertilization results are always great and then I just fail to get pregnant. I keep asking about my lining and I'm always told that everything is fine but then I get no numbers to go by. It's weird. :scratch: Or am I wierd for not asking more about it. :confused:

Suzi~Thanks so much for that article. I'm definitely going to bring it up at my next Dr. appointment.

I'm still in a kind of waiting period. When my next AF comes, I'm pretty much good to go to start IVF#7. I wanted to attempt to try again for a natural pregnancy this month and I'm pretty upset that things aren't going as planned. Basically, between visitors at the house, my own travels, and getting stuck with a work project that had me late at work for a few days, I think I've missed my chance. DH and I will try to squeeze on some :sex: tonight. . .that is, sometime after he gets home from the Patriots Game . . .it's a 9pm game, that means 1 or 2am. :tearhair: If we don't get it in now, this cycle is a wash. I guess I'm putting all my money on my next IVF now. :dunno:

I'm under great stress and craziness with everything in my life right now!!!!!!!

Kimberly

Suzi

September 12th, 2004, 02:52 PM

Brenda, I hope everything goes well at your appointment tomorrow - don't forget to let us know, huh?

Kimberly, hope you got your :sex: in the other night!! :biggrin: Geez, if you are about to start an IVF cycle, you will be pretty close in dates to Brenda and me - that'd sure be nice! :nod:

As for me, I started my Lupron shots this morning...ho hum. Although I know from here things go AWFULLY FAST!!! Based on our calendar we are looking at an October 4 retrieval and October 7 transfer. Hmm...October 7th was my mom and dad's anniversary - maybe it'll prove lucky for me, too. :crossfing

BrenS

September 12th, 2004, 03:31 PM

I keep forgetting to tell you that I have that follistim if you want it :) a 600 vial and I think 2 75 vials.

Goo

September 13th, 2004, 03:30 PM

October 7th was my mom and dad's anniversary - maybe it'll prove lucky for me, too.

Suzi~I sure hope so. :crossfing But if you're starting Lupron today, I'll actually probably be quite a bit behind you guys. As soon as AF comes, I still have a 21 day BCP plan to get through before I start Lupron. What a dragged out drag. :blue:

I think DH and I were able to :sex: in the nick of time. I guess all I can do is wait and see what happens in the next 11 days. I have to admit, that regardless of what happens, I feel so much more alive when there's a plan in my life. If it's :bfp: , :yippee: for me. If not, I start the BCPs and put all my energies into this being my last and successful IVF. :up:

Suzi

September 13th, 2004, 05:29 PM

Brenda, hope your appointment went okay today - been thinking about you!

BrenS

September 13th, 2004, 05:44 PM

naw.. not good news. Lining was only at 2.8. insanely low.

I start progesterone tonight, and on the 23rd I go in for the biopsy. Sucks that I still have to be on the estrace and PIO. Sucks that I can't go to transfer this time... but I guess I'd rather just KNOW if there's something wrong.

Anyone have a uterus I can borrow???? :lol:

Bev

September 13th, 2004, 07:55 PM

Bren, you can borrow mine, I'm not using it right now (well, I hope I am but if not....) :)

Goo (Kim??) Good luck to you. It really is an emotional rollercoaster isn't it.

Suzi, I hope October 7th is lucky for you! :)

Suzi

September 13th, 2004, 08:58 PM

Oy Brenda...I am so sorry. I hope they can come up with something that will improve your lining next time. :hug99:

Goo

September 15th, 2004, 05:15 PM

Brenda~I'm so sorry. That just sucks. :sadhug:

Kimberly

Suzi

September 16th, 2004, 04:19 PM

Hey Brenda, I keep forgetting to tell you - thank you - I mean THANK YOU - for the offer of the Follistim but I'm gonna pass it up. We are kinda gun-shy this time about using drugs other than what we KNOW has worked in the past. I stimmed fine on Gonal-F and Repronex TWICE and then the last cycle we had to use Pergonal (and the flare protocol) and it was a big fat bust for some unknown reason. Call me superstitious but I am going back to what we KNOW has worked in the past! Hopefully you can find another deserving soul for it! Thanks again!

Suzi

September 16th, 2004, 04:21 PM

OY. :doh: I did mean to update our cycle. :rolleyes: I started Lupron shots Sunday and took my last BCP yesterday. My down-reg u/s is Tuesday and I should start stims Wednesday. We are ever-so-close.....!!! :yippee:

BrenS

September 16th, 2004, 07:35 PM

Not a problem Suzi... I'm sure I can find someone for the meds.

How exciting that you're starting Stims!!!

So they tested my progesterone today.. and found out that even with PIO, It was only 9.0. Not high enough to sustain a pregnancy. I guess things are starting to make sense. Even if my lining WAS ever thick enough... My progesterone was so low nothing would stick regardless.

So I'm increasing progesterone to 1.5 CC's tonight.. and back on Monday to another test to see if it's working.

Bev

September 16th, 2004, 08:19 PM

Good luck Brenda! At least they are figuring some things out.

Suzi, I don't understand a word in your last sentence! :lol:

My fertility clinic appointment is Sept 29!! :jump: I'll likely be in the middle of AF so hopefully they can start some blood tests or something.

Suzi

September 16th, 2004, 09:46 PM

Beverly, I'm sorry! I will explain: On Tuesday I will be on my 10th day of Lupron which is the day you go (in my long stim protocol) for a "down regulation" ultrasound. That is where they do an u/s of the ovaries and uterus to 1) make sure there are no leftover follicles/cysts from the last cycle and 2) measure the lining of the uterus. If those things check out, then everything is said to be "quiet" and you can start stimulation drugs (Gonal-F/Follistim and/or Pergonal/Repronex). Please don't hesitate to ask questions, we were all in your shoes at one time! You will get the hang of it (and probably get a LOT more info here than from your doctor - at least most feel that way!)

Good luck with your appointment - it'll be here before you know it! I'd be doubtful that they'll do any testing other than maybe draw blood for standard stuff. To do any fertility blood testing you have to have your blood drawn on very specific days of your cycle. My center does a red blood cell panel (RBC panel), an HIV test, a Rubella test, a Cystic Fibrosis test (optional but we did it), and several other things I can't remember but are run-of-the-mill tests.

Brenda, I am sorry to hear your news. They say half the purpose of IVF is diagnostic and that seems to be true in your case (even more than your share...). At least they are making headway. The increased progesterone should win one battle for you. Kepp us posted! :bighug:

Bev

September 17th, 2004, 05:26 PM

Thanks Suzi! I know I'll get more info here. Or at least, info I can understand! :)

Ana975

September 21st, 2004, 02:24 PM

I've been MIA for a while because of all the craziness around me. I had to go to Portugal for a couple of weeks because my grandfather was very ill and I wanted to say good-bye before anything happened to him. He's still hanging in but it's so sad to see him that way. Then I got back last Tuesday and Wednesday night, we get a call that my BIL fell, had to have surgery in his brain because he was bleeding really bad. He has some brain damage but we don't know how extensive it is. The good news is he woke up and he's talking but we don't know how bad the damage will be until all the swelling goes down.

As for me, I started Lupron on the 10th. Because of the time difference in Portugal I screwed up and took it a day earlier (do you think that makes a difference?). Tomorrow will be CD1. I'm spotting right now so it should be full-fledged AF by tonight. So I'm calling the RE tomorrow and I guess I'll be going in for an u/s.

Suzi, it sounds like we're pretty much on the same schedule. Does that mean my retrieval might be Oct. 7th too?

Suzi

September 21st, 2004, 03:11 PM

Hi Ana! :wavey: Sorry you have had such a time of it - not like you need any added stress right now! :hug99: As for the Lupron thing...I am guessing it won't make any difference - it is keeping you from ovulating just the same. Our schedules are pretty close, my retrieval is tentatively the 4th with transfer the 7th, I'd bet yours is the same give or take a day. Good luck, Ana!!

As for me, I had my down-reg u/s today. My E2 is 78 so all is well and I start stims tomorrow. I go for my first progress check next Tuesday, I am going to be sitting on pins and needles until then (no pun intended...). It's great to be on a first name basis with everyone at the center and everyone knows me, Chris and Julia by name...I just kinda wish they didn't just the same. I have spent this ENTIRE year in their office trying to get PG and I am SO hoping this is the last time! :crossfing

Goo

September 21st, 2004, 04:03 PM

I have spent this ENTIRE year in their office trying to get PG and I am SO hoping this is the last time!

Suzi~I hope this is the last time for you too! All looks good though so I have full confidence that this will be it. :up:

Ana~Wow! :eek: You have a lot going on. . .and I thought things we're crazy in my life. :rolleyes: I wish you all this best this cycle.

I think AF is on her way. As soon as she arrives, I start BCP and will be on that for 21 days. After that, the real action begins. :banana:

Kimberly

Bev

September 22nd, 2004, 10:25 PM

I just read an article on a new technique they are using in Vancouver at the Genesis Clinic for women over 39. I'm going to ask if the Doc I'm seeing does that too. They transfer at the blastocyst stage, not the embryo stage.

Plus I am kind of worried about my FSH level. The Compendium of Pharmaceuticals and Specialties (a book containing drug monographs) says they won't use Pergonal or Gonal-F if the FSH is so high that you are in primary ovarian failure. And I know mine was high, but I don't know how high. I was actually looking up something else, and ended up on the Pergonal page and then had a compulsion to look up Lupron and Gonal-F. I couldn't remember the names of any other drugs which was probably a good thing.

Here is the web-site for Genesis:

http://www.genesis-fertility.com/services/services7.htm

Suzi

September 22nd, 2004, 11:20 PM

The 5-day transfer at some places shows better results but not good enough to make sweeping changes in the IF community. One problem with 5-day transfers is that perfectly good pregnancies often times don't make it (most embryos don't make it to 5-day blast stage). Case in point, my ectopic PGY wouldn't have stood a chance because none of my embryos from that retrieval made it to blast - yet I had a successful PGY (even though it was ectopic, it was still perfectly formed). So, a perfect PGY never would've happened with a 5-day transfer in my case... :dunno:

Ana975

September 23rd, 2004, 02:07 PM

My RE told me that chances for a pregancy are higher at the blast-stage but they only do them if you have a very good retrieval with a lot of eggs. They don't want to risk losing the eggs by waiting for the blast-stage. Not sure if I explained that right.

Anyway, I start the Follistim tomorrow (150cc) and they are reducing the Lupron from 10 units to 5 units. I go in for bloodwork on Monday. Does that sound about right?

Goo

September 23rd, 2004, 02:27 PM

Beverly~I've inquired about the same thing myself and the explanation that I got from my Dr. is basically the same thing Suzi said.

Suzi~Hope things are going well.

Ana~Wishing you all the best. :bighug:

AF arrived today. :yippee: I called the IVF clinic to let them know that I started the BCPs and to inquire about the ordering of my drugs. So, it still won't be until Oct. 13 when I'll really be in the swing of things and beginning my shots, but I have to admit, it feels good to be back in the game. :banana:

Kimberly

Brandi Jo

September 23rd, 2004, 02:41 PM

:wavey: Hi girls, just trying to get some info...it looks like this is going to be our path in order to get child #2. Off to read all of your info so I won't be in for a shock when I go to the dr.

Suzi

September 23rd, 2004, 03:48 PM

Ana, sounds right to me! :yippee: From here on things are going to start FLYING and before you know it, you'll be at retrieval! :eek:

Kimberly, you are right behind me, girl!! :yippee: According to my figuring, I will have my first beta around October 18 so you will be stating shots before then - :woo:

Brandi Jo, WELCOME - and you've come to the right place!! IVF is a MOUNTAIN of information - anything you want to know, just ask - and remember...there's NO SUCH THING as a dumb question! :nod: Good luck!!

Another day, four more shots. I had to finish up 75IUs in a pen this morning and then mix 150IUs from vials. PLUS the Lupron shot... OY! Still don't like the pens - I will avoid getting any more of them if I can. Anyone else use the pens yet? Brenda, I know you have... What do you think of them compared to the 1200IU multi-dose? Anyone???

Ana975

September 24th, 2004, 09:31 AM

I'm using the follistim pens for the first time this cycle. Is that what your talking about? It seemed really easy when they showed me how to use it a few weeks ago. I'll let you know what I think tonight.

Suzi

September 24th, 2004, 12:00 PM

Yeah, those're the ones. We thought they'd be easy to use also - and I guess they are - I just don't like the way the pen sticks at every 75IUs when you are injecting it. To me it is better to just do the shot with the 1200IU multidose. Good luck with your first shot, Ana!!

Bev

September 24th, 2004, 09:43 PM

Suzi and Kim, I am quite ignorant about all of this stuff, and am in for quite an education.

I don't really understand what you guys mean because I thought the article was saying that if the egg divides enough to become a blastocyst then it is more likely to implant, as in order to implant it has to be a blastocyst. And that if they were implanting embryos earlier than that, they might not divide far enough and therefore not implant. Maybe I didn't understand it. I mean, I'm no biologist and never took it in school so I really have no clue.

Brandi, welcome. We can learn all this together.

Ana, Kim and Suzi good luck with the shots. :)

Suzi

September 25th, 2004, 12:21 AM

Beverly, not really. First off, after fertilization you have an embryo. It reaches blastocyte stage at 5 days post-retrieval....IF it makes it that far. Many embryos make it to 3 days and never make it to 5 days (and that happened to me). There are studies that support blastocyte transfers as more successful (i.e. the blasts are more hardy) but it just doesn't pan out in reality. Perfect example - my second IVF was a three-day transfer (and successful, albeit an ectopic - which has nothing to do with the quality of the embryo) but none of the embryos made it to blast stage. At day 3 embryos are usually 8 cells (some more, some less) and that is perfectly strong/viable to transfer back.

Of course now I will REALLY screw with your head and tell you that embryo quality has NOTHING to do with the success of the IVF cycle. I have known many women with absolutely PERFECT A+ 8- or even 10-celled embryos transferred back and have a BFN. Conversely, I have known several women who've transferred back 2 or 3 6-celled B- embryos who have gotten BFP. Embryo quality has very LITTLE to do with success rates.

As far as implantation, your RE will probably perform AZH (assisted zonal hatching) where they introduce acid to one side of the embryo prior to transfer. The acid eats away at the embryo's outer "shell" and makes it easier for implantation to occur.

Hang in there - it's a learning process with a REALLY steep learning curve! Before you know it, you'll be a pro! :nod:

Ana, hope your first shot went fine!

Bev

September 25th, 2004, 09:56 AM

Many embryos make it to 3 days and never make it to 5 days (and that happened to me). There are studies that support blastocyte transfers as more successful (i.e. the blasts are more hardy) but it just doesn't pan out in reality. Perfect example - my second IVF was a three-day transfer (and successful, albeit an ectopic - which has nothing to do with the quality of the embryo) but none of the embryos made it to blast stage.
This is the part I'm having trouble wrapping my brain around because I got the impression that in order to implant the embryo has to reach the blast stage and if it doesn't it won't implant, because it isn't going to develop properly.

I'm sure I'm going to learn more about this than I ever wanted or needed to. :lol:

Suzi

September 25th, 2004, 11:28 AM

The explanation is that it is impossible for scientists to recreate the womb environment. No matter how hard they try, the best they can do is merely a replica of the REAL womb that isn't quite the same. Theory cannot always account for reality and science cannot exactly duplicate biology.

Maybe that explanation helps?

Bev

September 25th, 2004, 09:08 PM

I get what you're saying there Suzi, but I guess it's the whole thing that I'm thinking is:

If it doesn't get to blast stage then it won't/can't implant, but you won't know if it gets there or not unless you see it, and I want to know it will work, so lets see it and then put it in so it will implant. No sense putting something in that might not work.

But of course that makes too much sense. And this is science not sense. :)

I mean, really the complete mole shouldn't have implanted, but the sperm DNA doubled and made up all the cells and then once it implanted it really wasn't anything other than a stupid tumour. I hope to hell they know they won't be implanting one of those. I really don't need another one. Can they tell if the egg has genetic info? That is my first question on my list, actually.

Suzi

September 26th, 2004, 02:11 AM

I understand your thought pattern but you are assuming blast transfers are better than 3-day transfers and that is not medically substantiated. Actually, more research shows embryos do better with a 3-day transfer than a 5-day. Like I said earlier, science cannot recreate God's handiwork and embryos do not live well outside the body. Embryos that would result in a PGY if transferred at 3 days may very well not make it to 5 days - I am living proof of that! I guess having experienced that, I'd not want to waste an opportunity for a PGY with a 3-day transfer just to do a 5-day transfer when it's quite possible the embryos won't make it that far. Just my opinion...

As for transferring embryos that might not work....I understand your fear but I'll tell you now - IVF is not for the faint at heart. You have to be willing to gamble EVERYTHING on a 50% chance at best that you will get PG. Sounds ugly, but those're the facts. :dunno: My understanding of a molar PGY is that once you've had one your chance of another molar is 20%. Not positive about that but fairly sure that's what I saw. What did your doctor tell you about subsequent molar PGYs?

I guess you will kow more soon - your appointment is coming this week! Just when you think you'll finally get all the answers, you will just end up with MORE QUESTIONS!! :tearhair: :lol:

Bev

September 26th, 2004, 09:32 AM

As for transferring embryos that might not work....I understand your fear but I'll tell you now - IVF is not for the faint at heart. You have to be willing to gamble EVERYTHING on a 50% chance at best that you will get PG. Sounds ugly, but those're the facts. :dunno: My understanding of a molar PGY is that once you've had one your chance of another molar is 20%. Not positive about that but fairly sure that's what I saw. What did your doctor tell you about subsequent molar PGYs?
Well, I think it is more like only 25% chance of succeeding at age 38, so I'm aware I'll be doing this for a while.

For a "natural" cmp, I have a 1/100 chance for the second one as opposed to 1/1500 for the first one. So basically 99/100 it will be normal. It's highly unlikely I'll have another one, but look how unlikely it was I'd get the first one!

I just want them to be able to tell that it is not an empty egg they are fertilizing because if I end up with another one, that I paid to have, well that would really suck. And I would freak out that it would go invasive again and I'd have to do the chemo and wait so fricking long to TTC again. I don't really want to be 40 and having kids, but it's getting closer every day.

Hopefully I'll get my many questions answered on Wednesday.

Thanks so much for your help. :)

Suzi

September 26th, 2004, 10:54 AM

Well, I think it is more like only 25% chance of succeeding at age 38, so I'm aware I'll be doing this for a while.
Yeah, I was talking at BEST...if you were under 35, the IF problems were DH's, etc... Ahhhh, to dream..... ;)

I just want them to be able to tell that it is not an empty egg they are fertilizing because if I end up with another one, that I paid to have, well that would really suck.
Tell me about THAT!! Earlier this year I paid $10,000 to get PG and THEN I had to pay another $2,000 to have surgery to REMOVE the ectopic PGY!! THAT is the epitome of wrong!! :lol2: If you do't laugh you have to cry... :dunno:

Bev

September 26th, 2004, 05:17 PM

Yeah that is wrong. But until it happens to some insurance big wig, it will continue as is I suppose. I'll update on Wednesday or Thursday after my appt.

Suzi

September 26th, 2004, 08:59 PM

Yeah that is wrong. But until it happens to some insurance big wig, it will continue as is I suppose. I'll update on Wednesday or Thursday after my appt.
It'll never change 'cause it will never happen to a MAN!!! :lol2:

Bev

September 26th, 2004, 09:13 PM

:duh: Of course! What was I thinking? :lol:

Suzi

September 27th, 2004, 05:37 PM

Well, tomorrow is my first progress check....I am SO nervous about it this time! Having to drop last cycle was such a nightmare (for a variety of reasons, mostly monetary) and this progress check is where I will find out if I am having another cycle like that or a good cycle.

I have to say, I do feel like I feel something. When I dropped last cycle I told Chris before we even went to the RE's office for our progress check that I didn't feel like anything was going on. This time I do feel like things are happening - sounds crazy but I think I can feel the follicles. not actually feel them but feel that my ovaries are getting crowded by the follicle growth. I know, I'm :crazy:

Just the same, I would appreciate any good prayers you might send my way... :pray:

Suzi

September 27th, 2004, 05:42 PM

Okay, so Ana, you had a progress check today, yes? How are things going?

Beverly, do you have your list of questions for the RE ready? You must be getting excited - it's the day after tomorrow, right? That's practically TOMORROW!! :yippee:

Kimberly, how are you doing? Hanging in there??

I haven't seen Brenda around - Brenda, how are you??

Bev

September 27th, 2004, 08:18 PM

Suzi

September 27th, 2004, 09:01 PM

Suzi, good luck! You aren't crazy! You know how they tell cancer patients to visualize good cells fighting the bad ones, and it supposedly works, well just tell those ovaries to get working! :)

I have some questions but I could use suggestions if you have any. DH doesn't have any, he figures I've got it covered. He really has no idea what we're doing or what is required.

How long is an IVF cycle? 28 days? Like if it doesn't work, when can you go again?
Thanks, Beverly!

Your DH is pretty much like all other DHs when it comes to IVF. I think men are pretty overwhelmed by the whole process - and who can blame them??! :dunno:

A typical IVF cycle goes like this: BCP for a month (or longer depending on if your RE does IVF in groups or by individuals), Lupron shots start 5 days before your finish BCP, then you have a down-regulation u/s 5 days after you take your last pill. As long as all is quiet at that u/s, you start stims the next day. You continue with the Lupron throughout (it keeps you from ovulating on your own) and stims typically last 12 days. You go to retrieval and then three days later you do the transfer. In all (including BCP), the cycle is about 6-7 weeks long. If the cycle is not successful, you can do another cycle as soon as you have an unregulated cycle (at my center anyways).

Hope that helps!

Bev

September 27th, 2004, 09:41 PM

Thanks! He just figures I already know all about it, and he doesn't need to know anything, as I know enough for the both of us. :lol:

So today is CD1 so I wouldn't even start the BCP until near the end of October, so mid-December by the time there would be a retrieval. It is at the University so I don't know if they do groups or individuals yet. I guess there will be students there too, but I don't care about that. I am pro-med-students poking at me. :)

What is an unregulated cycle?

Do you charge a fee for these questions? I may owe you quite a bit by the time this is over!! :lol:

Good luck tomorrow! :)

Suzi

September 27th, 2004, 10:41 PM

I also forgot to mention - your first beta is about two weeks after your retrieval. My office does it exactly two weeks after retrieval but others make you wait 18-20 days even. If you are positive you go for a second beta two days later. If your numbers are doubling as they should, things are good. Then you go back for another beta a week later. The u/s is scheduled for one week after that, or about 6 weeks when the baby's heartbeat should be audible/visible. You continue PIO shots for another 3 weeks and then have another u/s. At that time some REs have you quit PIO shots, some have you continue until you are 12 weeks. Then you are released to your regular OB and your PGY is treated completely NORMAL (lots of women have trouble with this after being treated so regularly in the RE's office).

What is an unregulated cycle?

An unregulated cycle is a cycle free of any medications. So if you get a BFN AF will show up within 4 days (or so) of the time that you quit PIO (progesterone in oil) shots and then you have to wait for the beginning of your next cycle to start a new IVF cycle.

Do you charge a fee for these questions? I may owe you quite a bit by the time this is over!! :lol:

The only thing you need to do to pay me back is learn everything you can so you can someday help others new to IVF! It's a scary time and being able to ask questions of people who will tell you the REAL truth is absolutely invaluable! :nod:

Bev

September 28th, 2004, 07:06 AM

Thanks again Suzi! I will get lots of betas and u/s from my reg OB because of the molar, so I'm set that way, I'm already "High Risk" without the IVF. I'd rather go back to the OB as he's 15 min away rather than 2 hours.

Good luck today! :) :crossfing

Ana975

September 28th, 2004, 10:47 AM

Suzi, I've learned so much from you over the last couple of weeks! Thanks so much!

Bev, good luck at your appointment!

I went in for bloodwork yesterday and they decreased the Follistim from 150 to 75. They told me to come back today but I understood Wednesday so I never showed up for my appointment his morning :blush: But they did call me and I rushed over there and got more bloodwork done and an u/s. There were lots of small follies and one was measuring at 10 something and another at 9.3. They'll be calling this afternoon with more instructions.

Suzi, is it normal for them to decrease the Follistim so early? I was probably just responding to quickly, right? I got a little nervous yesterday when they lowered it, but I feel good today because I saw at least 2 follies that looked really good.

Suzi

September 28th, 2004, 11:34 AM

Ana, you are shooting for those follicles to measure around 19/20 the day of the trigger shot. You have a good start and no, it is not abnormal for them to lower your dosage. All the bloodwork they do before you start your cycle gives them an idea where to start your stims and that just means you are responding better than they originally expected. There IS such a thing as Ovarian Hyper-Stimulation (OHS) and that is SERIOUS but you are no where near that so don't worry.

It is my guess you will continue on your current dosage and see them in two days. :yippee:

Suzi

September 28th, 2004, 11:35 AM

Preliminary results are in from my u/s and things are not looking good. The IVF coord was able to spot a total of only three follicles (16, 14. 14). I am waiting for a personal call back from the IVF coord with my E2 results. Depending on the number, we may be dropping our cycle - again. :bawl: I don't believe this is happening again...

Ana975

September 28th, 2004, 12:11 PM

Suzi, you really are good at this. While the nurse was doing my u/s, she said that she would guess the dr would want me back there in 2 days.

About your cycle, I don't understand. If you have 3 follicles, why would you have to drop this cycle when you still have more days of stims? Or do they only do IVFs with a certain number of follicles?

Suzi

September 28th, 2004, 01:17 PM

An average IVF cycle produces around 15-20 follicles. The IVF cycle I got PG with Julia I produced only 9. The ectopic cycle I produced only 9. Last cycle I had to drop because we only had 3 (and low E2 levels). Today we have three, still waiting on the E2 level. My center's cut-off for where they suggest to drop a cycle is around 4-5 follicles. That gives a reasonable expectation that you will have 2 or 3 embryos for transfer and nothing left over to freeze. Anything less and you cannot reasonably expect 2-3 embryos.

As far as hanging on there, my follicles are 14, 10 and 10. If I were to produce more follicles they would be much smaller than the existing follicles. Going to retrieval is all about COHORT group. The trick is to get MOST of the follicles between 18-22mm in size. Anything smaller and they are not mature, anything larger and they are over-mature. If I were to grow more follicles now and wait for them to reach maturity, the existing follicles would be wasted because they would pass the "sweet spot" so to speak. Hmmm...Does that make sense?

I am still waiting to hear back from my IVF coord. I wish she'd call already! :tearhair:

Ana975

September 28th, 2004, 01:20 PM

That makes sense.

Goo

September 28th, 2004, 01:54 PM

Depending on the number, we may be dropping our cycle - again.

Suzi~No, no, no! This is not over. You will have more follicles! :bighug: A few of my cycles have been in jeopardy of being canceled. . .and then, one or two more always creep in there. At my clinic, they like to see at least 4. The most I've had is 9, the least is 5. I don't produce many follicles either.

I apologize for being so brief right now, but I'm so busy. I did read all your posts Suzi. . .I seriously think that you could be employed as an IF specialist.

I'm fine. I've started the BCPs. They always make me a bit crazy. :screwy: It's been a bit of an effort to get through each day without having a temper tantrum. I'm hanging in there.

I'll write more soon.

Kimberly

Ana975

September 28th, 2004, 02:38 PM

Just got my instructions. I'm to continue at 75 units and go back for bloodwork tomorrow. She said my estrogen levels are at 676. I asked if that is okay she said it was on the low side but still within range.

Suzi, do you agree?

Suzi

September 28th, 2004, 03:35 PM

Hmmmm... Without seeing how many smaller follicles you have, it's hard to say. You said you have a 10 and a 9 and several smaller ones, right? E2 at 676 for that sounds HIGH to me but again, without seeing/knowing how many smaller ones you have, it's hard to say. When all is said and done, your E2 is about 200-250 per follicle right before retreival. It will be easier to say when your follicles are larger and you have a better count and size.

Ana, at this point I'd say you are doing GREAT!! :aok:

Suzi

September 28th, 2004, 03:45 PM

I seriously think that you could be employed as an IF specialist.

You are sweet to say that! I have thought about it a few times - or something like that. I keep thinking that I could bring a unique view to my IVF center if I decided I want to work there - ie, nurse or even take referrals from there as a counselor. There is only ONE therapist in the entire city of Wichita who has fertility experience - how sad.

As for dropping, we are hanging in at least until Thursday. My E2 is a meager 286 today. It costs us almost $400 a day in shots but we think this cycle may POSSIBLY be saved so we'll hang in.

I am so afraid that this is all happening because of my age. I am afraid that something happened between last February and July that changed my fertilty. My family has a history of early menopause and I am getting pretty close to 40. I looked at the success rates for my center and the 35-37 success rate is 40%. The 38-40 rate PLUMMETS to 12% - I am only a few weeks from 38. I am just sick that this is happening.

Anyway, we are hanging in for another scan and E2 level on Thursday. Chris thinks that if we can REASONABLY expect to get 3/4/5 eggs from the follicles, that we will go ahead with the retrieval. Our ectopic cycle we had 7 follicles and 5 mature eggs. Of the 5 mature eggs, 100% of them fertilized - that is VERY good, usually it's only around 75% fertilization. If we can reasonably expect to get 5 eggs that are the right maturity (heck, even 3), we could expect all of them to fertilize and we only need 3 embryos when all is said and done.

Say some prayers for me, if you don't mind. I feel like I really need them!

Ana975

September 28th, 2004, 04:00 PM

Suzi

September 28th, 2004, 04:21 PM

I have lots of smaller ones. She measured a few at 5, 6, 7 knowing they were small so I guess that's good. She said with PCOS you have lots of follicles and you sorta have to take it slow at one point so that we don't blow up to much (whatever that means).
Oh, PCOS...okay. She is talking about "prolonged coasting." Women with PCOS tend to produce lots of follicles and that can lead to OHS (what she's referring to when she says "blow up too much."). Often times REs will trigger early when you have PCOS (because of fear of OHS) and fertilization/success rates for PCOS women are lower than average because of it. Optimally, you want to trigger when the largest amount of your follicles are 18-22mm, just keep that in mind.

Suzi

September 28th, 2004, 04:22 PM

And thanks for the prayers! :nod:

BrenS

September 28th, 2004, 04:38 PM

Sorry ladies, I haven't been around too much. I've been in a "funk" for a few weeks that I just can't get out of. :(

I had my biopsy yesterday.. and it was SOOOO painful. I was already cramping from all the progesterone. Usually during an endo biopsy, they take 1-2 samples. well yesterday they took 10 from all around the uterus. I had even taken Xanax before the appointment, and it still was just soooo bad. Once he was done, I was so dizzy I threw up all over his floor. :lol: He just made me lay there for another 10-15 minutes while the cramping subsided. It never went away.. and I've been spotting brown blood ever since.

So now I just wait for AF to arrive.. and wait for the results of the biospy. They're looking for the maturity of the lining. If the lining shows it was mature enough at 3.8mm, then they'll assume it was progesterone that my body needed, and we'll know that for next time. If it wasn't mature, then we'll need to try something else.. perhaps Estrogen In Oil.. just like PIO.. instead of estrace.

My bloodwork yesterday was perfect. Progesterone was 30, and estrodial was over 1200... So that means I really do need 1.5 cc of progesterone instead of 1cc. now if I could only convince my very lumpy and bruised ass. :lol:

Suzi.. I'm not giving up hope that your cycle will be a success. As for having eggs that go past maturity... I've had that happen with every single cycle. I always have 1-2 that go past.. and the middle ones are the best of the bunch. I don't see why they wouldn't just let you go and take their chances on the one catching up... seems to work for alot of people. As long as your levels are rising at a good rate, then the hormones are doing their job.

Ana... how are you doing with side effects?? I think your last levels were pretty good for the amount of follicles you have. You don't want it to get TOO high too fast or you'll risk OHSS.. and that's no fun.

Suzi

September 28th, 2004, 05:31 PM

Oh yeah, I forgot to correct my post before - my follicles are 16, 14, and 14.

Suzi

September 28th, 2004, 05:39 PM

Brenda, I am so sorry that the biopsy was so painful. :hug99: At least it's over now. I hope they are able to get good info from the tissue samples - at least they are being thorough. Any idea when the biopsy results are back?

I am not optimistic that I will have any follicles besides the three that were counted. With an E2 as low as mine, three follicles is all that you could expect - pretty unlikely there are any hiding. I am not throwing in the towel just yet but I am balling it up to chuck it. :lol:

I have been thinking if we drop this cycle we may go back and try the microdose flare protocol again (my IVF coord calls that protocol "The Big Guns." I am on the maximum of everything they give, there's no reason I should be so low. I guess if I look at the bright side, Chris's faith in our center and RE has been restored a bit. Chris still blamed him for our last dropped cycle because I didn't respond. I guess it wasn't such a fluke afterall. :dunno:

Bev

September 28th, 2004, 08:34 PM

Oh Bren! Sorry your biopsy was so painful. :hug99: I hope they can figure everything out soon.

Ana, I guess things are good for you! At least that is what the guru says, and I tend to believe her. Good luck on Thursday. :)

Suzi, I hope things work out for you. I don't know why they wouldn't try to catch a few more. I am worried about my age too, I am already 38. I'm so paranoid about it, it's not even funny. But the good news is my Mom had my brother at age 38 and he's fairly normal. :)

I'll write tomorrow about my big adventure at the clinic. :)

Suzi

September 28th, 2004, 08:35 PM

Good luck tomorrow, Bev...I'll be waiting anxiously for an update!

Suzi

September 29th, 2004, 03:55 PM

Ana, any news on your E2 levels today??

Bev, I hope your appointment is going/went well!!

BrenS

September 29th, 2004, 04:47 PM

Yo suzi.. check your PM's at TOF. :lol:

BrenS

September 29th, 2004, 05:05 PM

Another day, four more shots. I had to finish up 75IUs in a pen this morning and then mix 150IUs from vials. PLUS the Lupron shot... OY! Still don't like the pens - I will avoid getting any more of them if I can. Anyone else use the pens yet? Brenda, I know you have... What do you think of them compared to the 1200IU multi-dose? Anyone???

Yanno I never answered this. :lol:

Are you talking about the follistim Pen? That's the only Pen I've ever used, and it only takes the 300iu and 600iu vials of follistim. I've never used any multi-dose, even though I know they exist for gonal-f.

does Gonal-f have a pen now too?

I really liked the pen.... I HATE mixing, and the pen was easier to use.

I just PMd you about it over at TOF... :lol:

Bev

September 29th, 2004, 07:56 PM

Fook Fook FOOK!!!! I just found out my fooking FSH level from July is fooking 14!! That is NO GOOD!! I knew it was "elevated" but I didn't know it was so high. If this one today is 15 or more they won't do anything at all for me because my 38 year old eggs are no good.
:furious: FOOK! :furious:

So, I am not particularly happy with my appointment. I had that CD 3 test (FSH, LH, TSH, Prolactin and Estradiol) today as well as we both had tests for blood borne diseases. Next CD1 I am to call to schedule an HSG (dye test for the tubes) and a semen analysis for Patrick. I don't know if they'll even do that if my FSH is so high. 14 is marginal and they might not do anything for me if it is 14 again.

My mitigating factors are that I was already pregnant twice, the aggravating factor, my FSH level, my age although he didn't say so, and he said the chemo probably made my eggs "not so happy" and we don't know about scarring etc from the two D&C I had to have.

Cross your fingers and pray that this test comes out lower than 14. :crossfing

Ana975

September 29th, 2004, 09:15 PM

I'm sorry Bev :bighug:

I didn't get the number on my estrogen today but they lowered my dose to 37.5. Should I be worried that they keep lowering it or does it mean that I'm just reacting to fast?

Bev

September 29th, 2004, 10:05 PM

Hey Ana, I just found a super good website that explains things in plain English. Much like Suzi does. ;)

www.advancedfertility.com (http://www.advancedfertility.com)

and

www.inciid.org (http://www.inciid.org) might be helpful too.

Suzi

September 29th, 2004, 10:38 PM

Beverly, I am sorry that your CD3s came out high. They can be variable - I had a higher (although within normal limits) CD3 level for my first IVF than did for my second!! So it CAN go back down from month to month. :hug99: Hang in there. When do you get the results from today's CD3?

Ana, I wouldn't worry - for cycles with PCOS patients, coasting is normal. Hang in there! When do you go next?

Me...nervous about tomorrow. My center is giving me some drugs for tomorrow so we can decide what we are going to do but then we have to get more drugs if we decide to continue. Brenda is nice enough to share her extras with me...THANK YOU BRENDA!!! I don't know...going to retrieval with THREE follicles sounds INSANE to me!! :crazy:

Say some prayers for me - I will post when I have tomorrow's results!

Ana975

September 30th, 2004, 09:21 AM

I'm praying real hard Suzi!

Beverly, thanks for those websites. I have to check them out!

Me...I went in for more bloodwork (my arms hurt and look so bad) and an u/s this morning. I have 8 follicles measuring between 10-13. I was pretty happy with that! There were a few 9s but they don't count those yet. I'll let you know what they say once I hear back this afternoon.

Suzi

September 30th, 2004, 01:09 PM

Ana, you are doing great - right on track! The websites Beverly posted are great resources.

As for me, we had our u/s this morning and we have only 3 follicles - that's it. We have until tomorrow before we have to decide for SURE if we are going to retrieval or not. We'd be crazy to take a $6000 chance on that. But we don't know if we'll ever get another good cycle. Chris is leaning towards going. I am leaning towards dropping. I just can't believe I am sitting here with this decision AGAIN.

I don't know my E2 today yet (I'll know around 2pm) but we are tentative for retrieval on Sunday if we go ahead. I am just sitting here waiting for some divine inspiration...

Ana975

September 30th, 2004, 01:47 PM

Suzi, you definately have a tough decision to make. I don't know what I would do. Actually, I think I'd probably go for it and see what happens. I know it's an expensive gamble, but if this is the 2nd time in a row this has happened, then I'd be willing to take the chance.

If you do decide to drop, I'll send you whatever meds I have left over from this cycle. I think I may end up with at least two 600 cartridges of Follistim.

Suzi

September 30th, 2004, 04:07 PM

Ana, that is very nice of you - thanks! I may take you up on the extra drugs - if we go through with this cycle and get a BFN, your extra cartridges would make a dent in the expense of another round of drugs... :nod:

Suzi

September 30th, 2004, 04:09 PM

Actually, I think I'd probably go for it and see what happens. I know it's an expensive gamble, but if this is the 2nd time in a row this has happened, then I'd be willing to take the chance.
Hmmm... That comment struck me for some reason. Maybe it does make sense for us to go through with it afterall. :confused:

Bev

October 1st, 2004, 06:56 AM

Suzi that is exactly the Doc's concern with the high FSH. They say even if you only had a high one once, it means you won't repsond as well to the stims. From what I've read I think the Lupron Flare Protocol would work best for me, but what do I know. I forgot to tell the Doc that my Mom had my brother when she was 38, so that should be a mitigating factor for me too. Plus I got at least 2 possibly 3 follies from the lowest dose of Clomid. It is a hard decision, but for me the chance would be worth it. I can go without a vacation or new couch if it means a chance, KWIM? We re-financed our mortgage in anticipation of this. Mind you we had been paying a lot extra so all it means is it will take us longer to pay of the house, but big deal.

Good luck with whatever you decide. :hug99:

Ana sounds good! :)

Ana975

October 1st, 2004, 08:35 AM

Just got back from another u/s and today I had 14!

Suzi, I wasn't trying to change your mind as to what you should do. You know so much more about all this than me so that probably makes your decision even harder, whereas I'd be willing to just take a gamble. Last night, I was thinking about you and had an idea. It's probably no good, but I thought maybe you could go through the retrieval, freeze the eggs and go through another round IVF and then you'll have the new eggs and the old ones to work with. I'm sure this is probably way to costly but I thought I'd throw it out there. It just seems like you went through so much to just drop this cycle without gaining anything from it. Does that make sense?

BrenS

October 1st, 2004, 02:44 PM

Suzi.. I sent you a PM about the package I sent you. EEK!

Suzi

October 1st, 2004, 03:39 PM

No worries, Brenda - got it safe and sound! :aok: THANKS!

Ana, you are progressing nicely - not too much longer for you!

Beverly, you are exactly, right. Actually, if you DON'T do the microdose Lupron flare protocol, I'd be asking some questions! That DOES mean the your cycle will be bit shorter :yippee: Any idea when the CD3s from the other day will come back?

Well, our three follicles grew to 19, 18, and 16. We trigger tonight and go to retrieval on Sunday - I must be insane. We are continuing shots tonight and tomorrow though - that is new for me. The retrieval is Sunday at 9am, I will post an update as soon as I am moving around in the afternoon - probably before Julia gets up from her nap, late afternoon. :pray: I am praying my heart out...

BrenS

October 1st, 2004, 03:43 PM

you're continuing the stim shots even though you trigger? That's interesting.

Glad you got it.... I've had major meltdown issues today and totally freaked when I saw they were going to "redeliver".

Suzi

October 1st, 2004, 03:46 PM

No more meltdowns! :nono: Stop at Starbuck's on the way home and get yourself a treat - it's FRIDAY!!!! :nod:

BrenS

October 1st, 2004, 03:52 PM

I stay home... and if I weren't bleeding so heavy... I'd consider going to starbucks. :lol:

The meltdown.

Letter in the mail today from Brigham and Womens... saying that my new doc is Dr. Fox.... and her plan is for me to do a trial cycle with Viagra and Baby Aspirin.. THEN have a biopsy.

HELLO... my doc is Hornstein... and I just HAD a biopsy not using Viagra or Baby aspirin.. and I'm NOT doing another one.

I called the nurse and told her she may as well call in a prescript for Zoloft because they were driving me insane. I want freakin' explainations as to WHO my doctor is.. and what the fuck with another BIOPSY? Do they NOT know that I just had one on Monday. This letter is dated last Friday... so they apparently don't communicate.

Suzi

October 1st, 2004, 04:08 PM

:doh: OY!! I understand your meltdown - hope you got it all straightened out!! After your description of the biopsy, I think I'd have driven down there and smashed some heads together!

If I lived closer (a LOT closer!) I'd bring you a Starbuck's myself... :hug99:

BrenS

October 1st, 2004, 04:12 PM

No I still don't have any answers... no one has called me back yet.

~Andrea~

October 1st, 2004, 04:23 PM

Suzi I am praying for you as well.

and B you know how I feel about YOU :kiss:

Best of luck to Beverly and Ana and Kimberly as well :hug99:

Bev

October 1st, 2004, 08:00 PM

Suzi, I'm glad you're going for it! :aok: I'll be thinking of you on Sunday and praying things work out! :)

Brenda I hope they get their act together soon. The right hand doesn't know what the left is doing. :disbelief That's supposed to be an excellent hospital.

Ana, sounds good!

I'm glad to know my reading is paying off Suzi! :) I don't know when the results will get in, but the HIV etc won't be in for a month or so. I'm supposed to call when I get my next AF to set up the HSG etc. I might email them to ask for the results, I doubt they'd give it to me over the phone.

Ana975

October 2nd, 2004, 05:06 PM

Suzi, good luck tomorrow. I'll be praying that this is it!

I had another u/s today and I have 27 follies! I trigger tonight and Monday I go in at 10.

Suzi

October 2nd, 2004, 06:25 PM

Ana, that is LOTS of follicles - and just one day behind me!! Just a word of caution - make sure you pay attention to sudden weight gain, trouble breathing, etc. after retrieval...more than 25 follicles is suspect for OHS.

YIPPEE!! How exciting!! :yippee:

Bev

October 3rd, 2004, 07:46 AM

Good luck today Suzi! :crossfing And good luck on Monday Ana! :)

Suzi

October 3rd, 2004, 03:21 PM

From my journal:

Thanks so much to everyone for your thoughts and prayers! I am still a little nauseous from the anesthesia so this will be short. We got three eggs at retrieval today, so we have cleared our first big hurdle! :yippee: Tomorrow afternoon I will get the fertility report and that will tell me how many embryos we will have for transfer. I am so excited about getting the three eggs that I am actually beginning to believe this might work!

Back to the couch!

Bev

October 3rd, 2004, 04:14 PM

I hope they are all good ones! :) Will you transfer them all?

Suzi

October 3rd, 2004, 05:13 PM

If we have three, we will transfer three. If you ask me, best case scenario we end up with twins (Chris has a different opinion depending on what hour you ask him!).

Bev

October 3rd, 2004, 08:20 PM

I peeked at your journal today Suzi, and I think our thoughts are quite similar. :) Could be because we are both (or at least one of us is and one almost is) 38. I would have transferred all three too. I hope we are going to be able to do the procedure in the first place, so we'll have to wait and see, but I sure never wanted Mason to be a single/only child.

Good luck tomorrow Ana! :)

Ana975

October 3rd, 2004, 11:14 PM

Thanks Beverly!

Suzi, I'm so happy you had three eggs! All our prayers are working!

Suzi

October 4th, 2004, 09:33 AM

Ana, I am praying everything is going smoothly!!

Suzi

October 4th, 2004, 01:53 PM

:yippee: :yippee: :yippee: :yippee: :yippee: :yippee: :yippee: :yippee: :yippee: :yippee: :yippee:
:omg:I feel unbelievably blessed and lucky - we have THREE embryos!! :faint: The IVF coord said they are all beautiful and dividing very nicely without fragmentation! This is the BEST news yet!!!
:yippee: :yippee: :yippee: :yippee: :yippee: :yippee: :yippee: :yippee: :yippee: :yippee: :yippee:

We go for our transfer at 10:30am Wednesday. I don't think it can get here fast enough!! :pray: Thank you God!!

Suzi

October 4th, 2004, 01:56 PM

With that happy news....

Ana, I hope you are doing well and laying low for the day. The day of retrieval can be pretty stressful! Make sure you get lots of rest and tomorrow you will feel better - really!

Brenda, did you ever find anything out about what's going on at your center? Did they clear it up for you (or did you get them straightened out!! :lol2: )

Kimberly, you should be getting ready for AF to show. Then you are on with the cycle! :yippee:

Beverly, any news on the CD3s yet? :dunno:

Brooke

October 4th, 2004, 03:04 PM

Coming out of silent cheerleader mode to say...

:yippee: Suzi! Fantastic news! Sending lots of prayers for your 3 little embryos and I hope the transfer goes well on Wednesday.

Ana - I hope your retrieval went well. Can't wait to hear.

And best of luck to Beverly, Bren, and Kim.

Ana975

October 4th, 2004, 04:49 PM

Suzi, I am soo soo happy for you! And I'm so glad you listened to me and went for it! (j/k of course)!

My retrieval went great! I was a nervous wreck and couldn't wait to get it over with but everything went well and they retrieved 7 eggs! Hopefully, everything from here on out will go just as well. They'll be calling me tomorrow to let me know how many fertilized. I'm a little crampy, but it's not bad at all.

Now, my dilemma is how many we should transfer. My doctor recommends 2 because of my age but I kinda want to do 3. I don't know what to do. Any suggestions?

Bev

October 4th, 2004, 04:52 PM

Suzi! I'm so excited! I can't wait for Wednesday! Or 18 days after Wednesday! I wish you the best of luck! :)

Suzi

October 4th, 2004, 05:24 PM

Ana, the 7 eggs is GREAT! As for what to transfer back, wait until you get the fert report. You may only get 4 or 5 that are fertilized and growing - and your transfer decision will be affected by that number. Tomorrow, when you KNOW what you have fertilized, then you can make the decision what to put back. Until then just rest and stay comfy!

CONGRATULATIONS, MOMMA!! Those are your babies!! :nod:

Suzi

October 4th, 2004, 05:25 PM

Suzi! I'm so excited! I can't wait for Wednesday! Or 18 days after Wednesday! I wish you the best of luck! :)
Actually, not even that long! I have a beta on the 18th, so all I have to wait is TWO WEEKS FROM TODAY!!! :yippee:

Bev

October 4th, 2004, 06:45 PM

:woo: Suzi!

And :woo: Ana! (I had to go earlier) I agree with Suzi. You want to freeze some for later if you need them for number 2. Or 3. :) So are you doing the transfer on Thursday?

Goo

October 4th, 2004, 07:31 PM

I'm about ready to pull my hair out! :tearhair:

I literally just wrote a book. I think it was my longest post to date and it was all about advancing age and inferility. Well, I lost it all! :furious: I'm so frustrated and tired now, so although this may be brief, my good intentions are there.

Suzi~:banana: You rock girl! :yippee: I'm so happy for you! :bighug:

Ana~Things are looking great for you! :up:

Bren~I'm shocked. Brigham and Women's are known to be a great hospital. I'm so sorry to hear what you're going through. Please let us know how things evolve and how Brigham and Women's is going to compensate you for the misery they've put you through.

Bev~I'm so sorry. :sadhug:

I continued my response to Bev in an overall statement here about why you 38/39 year olds should not fear about your age. I'm 40 and this is a subject that is near and dear to my heart. :awink: I basically quoted from several different texts, all the reasons that you ladies should not fear about your age. In a nutshell, I mention some 8 or 9 quotes by various MDs such as this. . .

Dr. Christiane Northup - "A great disservice is done when 'science' undermines the confidence of an entire group of women (everyone over age 35) concerning their fertility."

Dr. Laurie Green - "Study after study shows that there is a mind-body connection and that if we convince patients they have no reason to hope, that lack of hope will be reflected in their bodies."

Then I talk about the Huichol Indians of Mexico who have children in their 50s and even some in their 60s. . .

Then I told of the various women I know in my peer group who didn't start having children until their late 30's/early 40's (most of the women I know) and then I mention a book called, "The Infertility Cure" by Dr. Randine Lewis. I think her website is www.easternharmonyclinic.com. Anyway, she recounts stories of where she has treated many women who came to her after being turned away from their IVF clinics for too high FSH levels. She has studied both Western and Eastern medicine and with the combination of changes in diet and lifestyle, herbal medicine, and acupuncture, she has helped many, many women become pregnant. . .even some who were already in early menapause. I am reading her book and have made many dietary changes and I have definitely noticed a difference. In addition, specifically for Suzi, should you need to go through this again (which I hope not), studies show that adding acupuncture during an IVF cycle shows a marked increase in follicular growth.

Anyway, blah blah blah. It was all much longer, so you all just got the abridged version.

I'm on BCP now. I've been somewhat MIA, because I am busy, but also because the BCPs are making me quite moody so I have counteract that by doing everything I can to take it easy, meditate, rest, and avoid conflicts whenever I can. I can't let these BCPs get the better of me, you know? I was supposed to be on the BCPs until CD21 and then I would start Lupron on CD24. I tell you, I couldn't wait until that day, but circumstances have it (nothing to do with me reproductively) where I have to delay my retrieval by about 3 weeks and thus, I'm going to stay on the BCP that much longer. :crazy: I'll explain more later, but I think I should meditate since I'm still reeling at the fact that I lost my first *very long* post. :silly:

I wish you all well. :grouphug:

Kimberly

Goo

October 4th, 2004, 07:34 PM

Goo

October 4th, 2004, 07:36 PM

And then I go and send the email twice!!!???? I must be loosing my mind. If you don't mind, I must go lay down and meditate now. :)

Bev

October 4th, 2004, 08:30 PM

Hi Kim, I'm sorry things are sucking for you. :hug99: I agree with Dr. Northup. I certainly don't feel my fertility should be an issue but the hype gets to you after a while. I will definitely try to find that book you mentioned. I hope this next cycle does the trick for you. :)

JuniperJen

October 4th, 2004, 09:53 PM

Hello! I have been lurking in this thread for a while and finally wanted to introduce myself. :)

My name is Jennifer. I am 32 and my DH, Lorne, is 35. We have been married for 3 1/2 years and have been TTC for 3 years. We did get pg naturally in 2002, but m/c at 10 weeks. Since then, we have not been successful. We started seeing an RE last October. We did 4 cycles of 100mg of Clomid. We then tried 3 cycles of Clomid/HCG shot/IUI/Estrace. At the time, the insurance I had covered 0% of infertility treatment. Our RE moved to Florida in March, so we have been taking a break from treatments since then.
I did some research and found that I did have an insurance option that would cover up to $15,000 for IVF :yippee: It will not cover any of my medication, but it will definitely help us. My insurance went into effect on Oct. 1, so I had an appointment this morning with a new RE! :)
I am so excited. We will be having IVF in November. :jump: Today, the RE did some bloodwork, an u/s, and signed us up for our IVF class at the end of October. I started BCP today. I will be starting Lupron on Oct. 28.

I am sure I will have MANY questions over the next two months. I have already learned so much from reading about your experiences! :)

Jennifer

Suzi

October 4th, 2004, 11:21 PM

WELCOME JENNIFER!! I hate that we have to meet in this thread but we'll take it just the same! I'm glad you have been lurking and reading - there's mountains of info to learn, that's for sure. Don't be afraind to ask questions or opinions here - we are all very open and willing to share our experiences! IVF is an emotional roller coaster and the more help/support/understanding you get, the easier it will be - trust me on that one!

Also, be sure to ask around about drugs when you are ready to order them - pricing can vary GREATLY!! And I have great tips for injections, too! :nod:

Welcome again and I wish you much success in your upcoming cycle!

Ana975

October 5th, 2004, 08:45 AM

CONGRATULATIONS, MOMMA!! Those are your babies!! :nod: I keep coming back to this post and reading it over and over. It's the first time someone has called me Momma (well, except when they refer to my kitties, but that doesn't count :lol: ). I love the sound of it! Thanks for making me smile and for all the advice. I couldn't have done it without you or Brenda or Kim or Beverly!

Welcome Jennifer! If there's anything I can help you with, just ask!

Ana975

October 5th, 2004, 09:48 AM

Just heard back from the embryologist and 3 fertilized. I've decided to put them all in and thankfully Justin is okay with that. Once again, I'm a nervous wreck. It felt good knowing that I had 7 and a lot to pick from but now it's only down to 3 and I keep wondering if it'll work. I know I only need 1 to work so having 3 is great but I'm still nervous.

Suzi

October 5th, 2004, 10:49 AM

Ana, that's GREAT!! Like I said, you can't ever decide what you are transferring back until you get that fert report! :lol: You have nothing to worry about with the three embryos, that will give you a VERY good chance at getting PG. Just be sure that you and Justin have discussed what happens if you end up with triplets because that IS a possibility. :awink:

CONGRATULATIONS!!! You have three babies!! :nod:

Goo

October 5th, 2004, 01:55 PM

Feeling a tad bit better, but still having a rough time. It stinks being at work in my delicate condition! :thumbsdow

Ana~Awesome news. :yippee: I wish you all the best.

Jennifer~ :welcome: Your situation actually sounds similair to mine where we got pregnant quite easily, I m/c'd and then nothing for the following 9 months or so until I finally decided to see a Dr. (this is also because I was already 36 yrs. old at the time). Anyway, we're here for you but I hope you don't have to stay very long. :bighug: I'm going on my 7th IVF and consider myself an oldtimer, but it's Suzi who's the brain around here. . .she's the one who can make clear sense and translate for the rest of us, all these confusing medical terms. I wish you a very short stay.

Kimberly

Bev

October 5th, 2004, 06:55 PM

Congratulations Ana (or should I say Mummy)!

Suzi, good luck tomorrow!

Kim, I hope you are feeling better soon. :hug99:

Brenda how are you doing? :)

Jennifer Hi! :wavey: You are ahead of me in the process, I wish you well! :)

I called the clinic and was surprised she was willing to give me my results over the phone. I didn't want to push it so I only asked for the FSH and the Estradiol (or whatever). They were 11 and 115 respectively, so not bad. I'm pleased the FSH was lower and closer to "normal." I'll have to check the other website about the Estradiol.

I'm sending gooey, wet, oozing purple sticky vibes to Suzi and Ana! :) Good luck with your transfers. You'll both be having triplets before too long.

Bev

October 5th, 2004, 09:16 PM

RATS!!

My FSH was 11, better than the 14 I had before but... 10 - 12Reduced ovarian reserve. Usually show a reduced response to stimulation and some reduction in egg and embryo quality with IVF. Reduced live birth rates on the average.12 - 17Generally show a more marked reduction in response to stimulation and usually a further reduction in egg and embryo quality with IVF. Low live birth rates.

My Estradiol was abnormal. 115:
The idea of using day 3 estradiol levels as an adjunct in evaluating egg quantity and quality is relatively new. Clearly defined cutoff values for normal and abnormal are not well defined and are also lab-dependent. I like to see the day 3 estradiol less than about 80. In our experience, levels of 80-100 are borderline, and over 100 is abnormal.

I didn't ask for the rest of the results. I don't know what they're going to do, I don't go back until the end of October or thereabouts.

Ana975

October 6th, 2004, 09:01 AM

Suzi, good luck today!

I have a kinda gross question to ask you girls. I've been inserting the progesterone pills vaginally but I'm not sure how far up I'm supposed to stick these things. I think I'm getting it pretty far but I'm having some oozing issues. Is that normal? Should I be going farther? I know this is a totally disgusting question but I have no idea who else to ask.

Suzi

October 6th, 2004, 10:18 AM

Oozing is normal - progesterone suppositories are a freaking mess. That is the advantage of PIO shots over the suppositories... :dunno:

I am so excited and nervous and scared...I want so badly for this to work...I hate to even say how much because I don't want to make it real (does that make sense??). I woke up this morning and my first thought of the day was...my entire life could change today. Oh, how I pray... :pray:

We are leaving here in an hour for the RE's office. The transfer is very simple - no biggie. Please send some extra prayers this way if you remember!

Ana975

October 6th, 2004, 10:55 AM

I am so excited and nervous and scared...I want so badly for this to work...I hate to even say how much because I don't want to make it real (does that make sense??). I woke up this morning and my first thought of the day was...my entire life could change today. Oh, how I pray... :pray: That's exactly how I feel!

Please send some extra prayers this way if you remember! Remember? How can I forget? You are on my mind constantly (no word of a lie) since you are going through EXACTLY what I am right now. I think about my embryos and think about yours and pray that this works for the both of us. It would be so awesome if we both get some positive news from this.

Suzi

October 6th, 2004, 06:07 PM

Somehow Ana, I knew it'd make sense to you! :lol:

How lucky can we get...they all THREE survived!! We transferred THREE beautiful embryos today, a 6-cell, a 7-cell, and an 8-cell! Right now, I am a HAPPY momma of TRIPLETS!! :biggrin: My RE is very optimistic that we will have a PGY out of this transfer - he even told us that he wouldn't be surprised if it turns out to be TWINS! He did mention that he believes in the power of visualization so he said it sure wouldn't hurt us to visualize our embryos implanting and growing. You can bet my mind will be focused on that for the next 11 days!!

I am feeling good - a TAD crampy now and then, but I feel perfectly fine. I am TRYING to lay a little low this afternoon and it's a good day for it - cool and rainy. Chris is working from home today to keep me from being up too much - HA! It's HARD to sit still when you are used to being on the go all the time and to top it off, you feel FINE!

I am so excited about this transfer - I feel VERY optimistic! I can't tell you ALL how much your prayers and thoughts mean to me! I just hope that I can give back to you (and anyone else who happens along this thread in a time of need) the strength to face the scary world of IVF. Having some hands to hold along the way sure does make it easier to get through it! Whether this works or not, I just have to say that I feel so lucky to have such a wonderful group of supportive, caring women like I do here!

:bighug: to ALL of you!!!

Ana975

October 6th, 2004, 06:47 PM

I am so happy that they all survived! The next two weeks won't go by fast enough!

Suzi

October 6th, 2004, 08:47 PM

You ain't kidding, sister! My cycle in Feb I tested early and I re-learned a VERY good lesson...don't EVER test early! I tested just 5-6 days after the transfer and I got a negative (what I was expecting to make certain the hCG shot was gone from my body since it can remain for up to 15 days). After that I was testing every two days and each day I didn't get a BFP I was destroying myself. Chris and I decided that we will HPT but it will be either Sunday night (the 17th) or Monday morning before we head to the center for our beta. We want to be together when we find out the news and that's the only way to do it.

I am so excited and hopeful for a BFP this cycle!

Suzi

October 6th, 2004, 08:58 PM

Ana, you are in my prayers tonight (same as all the last few weeks!). I hope everything goes great tomorrow! :aok:

Bev

October 6th, 2004, 09:23 PM

Suzi! I'm so pleased for you. :) I was thinking about you today and hoping everything went well. I've been praying for you and Ana and some other gals on my molar pg board to get pregnant soon; we've all been through enough.

Despite my numbers I am positive that if the clinic will do IVF for me that we'll be successful. I need to keep thinking that. I can't wait to hear your news!

Ana, I'll be thinking of you tomorrow too! Good luck. :)

BrenS

October 6th, 2004, 11:20 PM

well lookie here... we have a newbie..and TWO momma's. :lol: I had no internet access for 3 days.. but man have I been thinking about you all.

Suzi... I can SO believe all 3 made it and looked great... That's wonderful news!!!

Ana!!! Your first and hopefully last retreival... I'm glad it went well and wasn't too bad.. and 3 is a GREAT number.. Don't worry about the progesterone not doing it's thing.. if you're that worried about it, call the RE and request a progesterone test to make sure you're getting enough.

Beverly.. Yanno I don't think those numbers mean anything at all... they can change any minute and lord knows if you drink a Dr. Pepper last tuesday at 8:31am, it'll be higher. It's just so rediculas that the clinics can play around with out hearts over a stinkin' number.

As for me.... well no news is good news, right?

Yeah... :roll: Dr. was suppose to call on Friday. No results.

Monday... he wasn't there.. results were there... Nurse said he'd called me on Tuesday.

Yesterday rolls around... nurse called.. said the doc would call me last night or this morning..no call. I called her this afternoon and she said ... "he's calling a special meeting with all of the other docs to sit and review your file.. he wants more opinions as to what approach to take. Your lining was measuring a 22 cycle day maturity.. when we were hoping for 23 or more... he'll call you tomorrow at some point to go over what they talked about"

Yeah.... I'm gonna sit and wait for THAT phone call. (insert huge eye roll here)

On top of all this.. I have a HORRIBLE HORRIBLE snot oozing, sneezing, coughing, can't talk or breathe head cold. I'm a vision of lovely-ness I'm sure.:sick:

Suzi

October 6th, 2004, 11:46 PM

Thanks, guys! I need to figure out how to contain my excitement or the next 11 days will be rough... :biggrin:

Beverly: I think you have the right idea. I'll tell you what my center told me: you can do CD3s EVERY cycle for a year and just ONE off result indicates the possibility of perimenopause. When we were talking about my poor response, we had conversations about that because of my age - and that we just didn't ever catch the elevated number on either of the CD3s we did. My point - I was able to conceive Julia (and her twin), I conceived an ectopic, and I am doing it AGAIN. :nod:

Brenda: Dang, chick...you can't catch a break ANYWHERE! I'm sorry you aren't getting answers from your center - it surely seems to me that they might learn a thing or two about how to treat their patients (as in attending to their emotional state as well as physical). Making you wait all this time is really quite obnoxious. Sorry you are hanging...

And geez, a cold! I hope you feel better soon - get some rest (as if) and make hubby take care of you! :nod: :hug99:

Suzi

October 7th, 2004, 10:31 AM

Ana, I am thinking of you and sending all kinds of GREAT PRAYERS your way! :hug99: And CONGRATULATIONS!!! No matter the time, you are a MOMMA of TRIPLETS today!! :yippee:

Goo

October 7th, 2004, 12:01 PM

Please send some extra prayers this way if you remember!

Suzi~I was thinking of you and sending you all my best yesterday. . .and it worked! :yippee: :awink:
I never test early exactely for the reason you stated. . .you know, tearing yourself apart? Well, with my first IVF ectopic, I had gotten AF on the day of my beta test and assumed it was all over and left work before the clinic called me at work with the results. I promptly opened a bottle of wine and cried on the phone to some of my friends. It didn't dawn on me until I was quite tipsy that I should check my messages at work only to find out that I did have some numbers, albiet low. For the next few weeks of testing (before being able to detect the ectopic via U/S) and seeing my numbers rise, I was so angry at myself for have jumped the gun and given up before I should have. So, I wait until the bitter end before I test. Even during a natural cycle I waited until the day that AF should have arrived. I like to hold off my depression as long as possible. :awink: Maybe the next time for me will be happiness instead. I wish you all the best during the next 11 days. :bighug:

Ana~:crossfing Thinking of you today.

Bev~I also had one off result for one of my CD3s, but the rest were great. . .even extraordinary (for my age that is). I also got pregnant naturally in June. . .Keep your confidence level high and it will do wonders. The power of the mind is really amazing.

Brenda~I am still completely shocked! This is :badwords: ! I'm so, sorry that you have to go through this but it also is unacceptable for your clinic to treat a patient like this. . .and Brigham & Women's????? :nono:

I was out with a friend of mine last night who is now on her 7th IVF like myself. She is 45 years old. Her Dr. is basically telling her that he does not see a reason for her to stop, unless of course, she does not want to continue. Her last failed cycle produced 9 follicles, 8 embroyos, and transfer of 3 8-celled embryos. She also told me about her co-worker who had her second child at 48 yrs. old. Difficult maybe, but not impossible. . . .and that's exactely the way I have to think.

Still on the BCP. :tantrum: I meditated and then took an hour long hike in the woods with my dog this morning. Let's see how long my serentity lasts today. :devil:

Kimberly