IVF Buddies - Sept/Oct/Nov/Dec 2004 [Archive]

Suzi

September 4th, 2004, 10:47 PM

Hey Brenda, this is pretty interesting and may be worth taking to your RE...

Copied from http://www.storknet.com/cubbies/infertility/exgs1.htm

Viagra Assisting With Blood Flow to the Uterus
by Geoffrey Sher, M.D.

http://www.storknet.com/guests/images/drsher.jpgQ. Can you share more regarding your opinion about Viagra assisting with blood flow to the uterus and lining thickness? Is it similar to baby aspirin or more effective? How can one introduce the idea to an RE who may be unaware of this treatment option?

A. It is far more effective. BUT alas "there are none so blind as those that will not see!"

In 1989, we were among the first to show that in normal and "stimulated" cycles, pre-ovulatory endometrial thickness and ultrasound appearance, is predictive of embryo implantation (pregnancy) potential following In Vitro Fertilization/Embryo Transfer (IVF/ET). With conventional IVF (where the woman receives fertility drugs and has her own fresh embryos transferred to her uterus), here needs to be a 9mm sagital thickness (Grade 2) and a triple line appearance (Grade A) accordingly, a Grade 2A lining is optimal in such cases. Anything less is associated with about a five- (5) fold reduction in live birth rate per ET. An exception to this rule seems to apply for third party embryo Recipients (Ovum donation, IVF-Surrogacy) and in cases of frozen embryo transfers (i.e., where the recipient receives supplementary estrogen/progesterone and not gonadotropins, to prepare the uterine lining. Here, a lining of 8mm thickness seems to be adequate.

A "poor" endometrial lining most commonly occurs in women with a history of unexplained recurrent IVF failures or early recurrent miscarriages and is usually attributable to: 1) inflammation of the uterine lining (endometrium), i.e., endometritis (occurring following a septic delivery, abortion or miscarriage), 2) adenomyosis (gross invasion of the uterine muscle by endometrial glandular tissue), 3) multiple fibroid tumors of the uterine wall, 4) prenatal exposure to the synthetic hormone, diethylstilbestrol (DES) and, 4) in women who have received clomiphene citrate (Clomid, Serophene) for at least 3 months in a row without a resting cycle (this effect is self-reversible within 4-6 weeks of discontinuing clomiphene).

Hitherto, attempts to augment endometrial growth in women with poor endometrial linings by bolstering circulating estrogen blood levels (through the administration of increased doses of fertility drugs, aspirin administration and by supplementary estrogen therapy) yielded disappointing results.

In 1995/96, we began to recognize that it was possible to improve endometrial development in women who had "poor uterine linings," by the daily application of nitroglycerine skin patches during ovarian stimulation with fertility drugs. We believed that the therapeutic effect was probably attributable to the local action of nitric oxide (NO) on the uterine vasculature, leading to improved endometrial blood flow and enhanced delivery of estrogen to the uterine lining. About 75% of our IVF patients with compromised uterine linings so treated with nitroglycerine skin patches, showed a marked improvement in estrogen-induced endometrial growth and many went on to achieve viable pregnancies. Unfortunately the lack of access to ultrasound color flow Doppler (UCFD) to measure uterine blood flow at the time precluded us from confirming that the observed enhancement in endometrial development was directly attributable to enhancement of uterine blood flow. Accordingly we did not publish these findings.

The high incidence of unpleasant side effects associated with nitroglycerine therapy (e.g. severe headaches, nausea, and light-headedness brought about by fluctuations in blood pressure) resulted in poor patient tolerance. Accordingly, when Sildenafil (Viagra) was shown to facilitate penile erection through increasing penile blood flow, without eliciting bothersome side effects, we decided to investigate whether this drug could replace nitroglycerine for the improvement of endometrial development. This time, with ready access to UCFD, we set out to examine for a cause and effect relationship between Viagra-induced enhancement of uterine blood flow and improved endometrial growth in women with poor endometrial development.

We elected to incorporate Viagra into vaginal suppositories in an attempt to improve local uterine absorption and minimize the incidence of systemic side effects. To this end, we enlisted the services of a compound pharmacist and began testing the effect of vaginally administered Viagra on uterine blood flow and on estrogen-induced endometrial development. Four women with chronic histories of poor endometrial development and failure to conceive following several advanced fertility treatments were evaluated for a period of 4-6 weeks and then underwent IVF with concomitant Viagra therapy. Viagra vaginal suppositories were administered four times daily for 8-11 days and were discontinued 5-7 days prior to embryo transfer in all cases.

We reported on our findings in a preliminary study, published in the prestigious journal, Human Reproduction (April 2000). The findings clearly demonstrated that vaginal Viagra produced a rapid and profound improvement in uterine blood flow and that this was followed by enhanced endometrial development in all four cases. While three of the four women subsequently conceived, the study is too small to prove that these pregnancies can be attributed to the Viagra therapy. Larger independent and controlled studies will be needed to demonstrate this. In a manuscript which appeared in Fertility & Sterility (The official journal of The American Society of Reproductive Medicine) in October 2002, we reported on the administration of vaginal Viagra to 105 women with repeated IVF failure due to persistently thin endometrial linings. All of the women had experienced at least two (2) prior IVF failures attributed to intractably thin uterine linings. About 70% of these women responded to treatment with Viagra suppositories with a marked improvement in endometrial thickness and 45% of these achieved live IVF-births following a single cycle of treatment with Viagra. 9% miscarried. None of the women who had failed to achieve an improvement in endometrial thickness following Viagra subsequently and underwent embryo transfers in the same cycle during which Viagra was administered, achieved viable pregnancies. Our very first patient to achieve a live birth following Viagra treatment subsequently again conceived following IVF where Viagra was administered and has since delivered a healthy baby (a girl this time), at full term.

BrenS

September 5th, 2004, 12:23 AM

yeah... I've talked to others who used viagra... and some had good response... and some didn't. It seems the viagra is a suppository, so if used, you can't use the estrace vaginally. The viagra actually over powers the estrodial. So you have to do estrodial INJECTIONS.. which you can't stop. so you're doing two injections in Oil twice a day... plus progesterone in oil injections. Lovely.

If we do get canceled... I will demand to see my doctor ASAP... this is just rediculas.

Suzi

September 5th, 2004, 01:28 PM

Hmmm.... When do you go back? I have my fingers crossed for you! :crossfing

BrenS

September 5th, 2004, 01:49 PM

Wednesday. I started taking red raspberry leaf tea capsules.. and baby aspirin. Hope it helps.

Bev

September 5th, 2004, 04:23 PM

Hello Everyone. I am new to this section of the board. I am 38 and have had two pregnancies on my own with no difficulty conceiving. The first pregnancy at age 34½ resulted in Mason and the second at 36½ resulted in a complete molar pregnancy; it required 2 D&Cs and 12 shots of methotrexate to get rid of it.

I had to wait 6 months after the chemo to TTC. Normally it is 12 months but my Gyn-Onc was terrific and said due to my age and general good health and good response to the chemo I could start early. Thank Goodness because I just found out that now I don't ovulate without Clomid and DH's sperm totally suck! I don't know how all that happened, but whatever.

I had one round of IUI on Aug 18 which was unsuccessful. My OB/GYN said he wouldn't do another one due to DH's sperm so he is referring me to a fertility clinic about 2 hours from here for ICSI.

I don't know any of the medical terms or anything. I am just waiting to get started on the rigmarole. The only thing I know about ICSI is that my girlfriend had ICSI 5 years ago and she had boy/girl twins on the first try. :) I hope we all have the same good luck she had. :)

Bev

September 5th, 2004, 04:26 PM

Oh yeah, do you always have to take BCPs before doing IVF?

Suzi

September 6th, 2004, 01:11 AM

My OB/GYN said he wouldn't do another one due to DH's sperm so he is referring me to a fertility clinic about 2 hours from here for ICSI.

Hi Beverly, wecome aboard! Actually, your next step is IVF. ICSI is a small additional procedure done in relation to IVF to fertilize your eggs when DH's sperm count is so low. It isn't actually a stand-alone procedure. There's an awful lot to IVF - procedures, drugs, schedules, checks, etc...before too long you will be an old pro!

As for me, I am 5 days from starting Lupron and boy am I getting antsy. I get this knot in my gut when I start to think about it - presumably from the last two bad turn-outs. We had to take a loan against our 401K last week (we took the maximum amount) and after this, we have pretty much exhausted our ability to pay for IVFs. We have a lot riding on this cycle - I guess it kinda scares me.

Brenda, I have been thinking about you. I really hope you get good improvements early this week and that your transfer goes without any more trouble.

Suzi

September 6th, 2004, 01:15 AM

Oh yeah, do you always have to take BCPs before doing IVF?
No you don't but I think more REs use them than don't. They help to ensure that your ovaries don't have leftover follicles from previous cycles. Also helps RE gain control over your hormones.

My RE talked to me about BCPs and that there is data that suggests cycles preceded by BCP have slightly higher success rates.

Feel free to ask any questions you might have - I think between me, Kimberly, and Brenda we can come up with an answer for you! :lol: I wish you the best of luck!

Bev

September 6th, 2004, 11:51 AM

Well Suzi, I hope this is your cycle. :) I was talking to my girlfriend last night, and she was so sick because she had ovarian hyperstimulation. They had retrieved a ton of eggs from her. She was lucky and everything worked the first time. She did not have to do BCP first. I'll post more when I know about my appointments.

Suzi

September 8th, 2004, 03:28 PM

Brenda, I've been thinking of you today - how did your appointment go??

BrenS

September 8th, 2004, 03:35 PM

Hi Suzi...

The nurse called a little while ago.

Basically it's like this.

My uterus has a mind of it's own. It was the same thickness. They even sent 3 doctors down there to look at the ultrasound themselves.
If anything.. it was a little thinner, but she said since I haven't had any bleeding, it can't be.. so they think it was just because a different person did the measuring.

I Stay on the lovely Lupron and Estrace until MONDAY. On Monday, if my lining has increased, we'll keep going. If it has NOT increased on Monday, they're going to convert this cycle into a "trial cycle".
I'll stop the lupron and start progesterone, and after 10 days of progesterone, they'll do a Inter-Uterine Biopsy. She said they go in thru the cervix and scrape out a little piece of my uterine lining, and they look at the cells and they run a bunch of tests on it.. including one with a "dead" embryo (someone else's, I think) to see if it bounces around on the lining or settles in.

She said sometimes people just have extra thin linings, but it's perfectly fine and with progesterone it gets to where it needs to be.

If the testing comes out ok.. meaning the cells are fine, we'll do another FET round once I get a period again.

If the testing ISN'T ok.... and this is the scary part. If there's something WRONG with the cells completely.. no baby for us unless we use a surrogate for our embryo's.

If the cells are ok but maybe we just need to change meds to build a lining, or do something else.. like heperin injections... then we'll do that too. Whatever it takes I guess.

SO I guess we'll find out what the plan is on Monday.

BrenS

September 8th, 2004, 03:36 PM

And can I just say that I am SICK of being on this lupron/estrace combo? I can't smell food cooking or I'm ill. Can't eat anything even remotely related to meat.

(and they want me to up the Red Meat intake.. OY)

Suzi

September 8th, 2004, 04:54 PM

Oh man...I am sorry! I hope that things really are fine and that all this concern has been for nothing. I feel for you on the red meat...I can't imaging how awful! :rolleyes:

Bev

September 8th, 2004, 06:34 PM

Oh Brenda, how awful! :( I hope they figure this out soon and it is just a matter of changing your meds or something. :crossfing

Goo

September 9th, 2004, 07:06 PM

Hi ladies. :wavey:

I'm just stepping again after a brief MIA due to one crazy thing after the other and a major lack of sleep. :mope:

Bev~Welcome. I wish you all the best.

Brens~Gosh regarding your lining. I'm so glad that your doctors are willing to go the extra mile to do more investigation. With all 6 of my failed IVFs :rolleyes: my fertilization results are always great and then I just fail to get pregnant. I keep asking about my lining and I'm always told that everything is fine but then I get no numbers to go by. It's weird. :scratch: Or am I wierd for not asking more about it. :confused:

Suzi~Thanks so much for that article. I'm definitely going to bring it up at my next Dr. appointment.

I'm still in a kind of waiting period. When my next AF comes, I'm pretty much good to go to start IVF#7. I wanted to attempt to try again for a natural pregnancy this month and I'm pretty upset that things aren't going as planned. Basically, between visitors at the house, my own travels, and getting stuck with a work project that had me late at work for a few days, I think I've missed my chance. DH and I will try to squeeze on some :sex: tonight. . .that is, sometime after he gets home from the Patriots Game . . .it's a 9pm game, that means 1 or 2am. :tearhair: If we don't get it in now, this cycle is a wash. I guess I'm putting all my money on my next IVF now. :dunno:

I'm under great stress and craziness with everything in my life right now!!!!!!!

Kimberly

Suzi

September 12th, 2004, 02:52 PM

Brenda, I hope everything goes well at your appointment tomorrow - don't forget to let us know, huh?

Kimberly, hope you got your :sex: in the other night!! :biggrin: Geez, if you are about to start an IVF cycle, you will be pretty close in dates to Brenda and me - that'd sure be nice! :nod:

As for me, I started my Lupron shots this morning...ho hum. Although I know from here things go AWFULLY FAST!!! Based on our calendar we are looking at an October 4 retrieval and October 7 transfer. Hmm...October 7th was my mom and dad's anniversary - maybe it'll prove lucky for me, too. :crossfing

BrenS

September 12th, 2004, 03:31 PM

I keep forgetting to tell you that I have that follistim if you want it :) a 600 vial and I think 2 75 vials.

Goo

September 13th, 2004, 03:30 PM

October 7th was my mom and dad's anniversary - maybe it'll prove lucky for me, too.

Suzi~I sure hope so. :crossfing But if you're starting Lupron today, I'll actually probably be quite a bit behind you guys. As soon as AF comes, I still have a 21 day BCP plan to get through before I start Lupron. What a dragged out drag. :blue:

I think DH and I were able to :sex: in the nick of time. I guess all I can do is wait and see what happens in the next 11 days. I have to admit, that regardless of what happens, I feel so much more alive when there's a plan in my life. If it's :bfp: , :yippee: for me. If not, I start the BCPs and put all my energies into this being my last and successful IVF. :up:

Suzi

September 13th, 2004, 05:29 PM

Brenda, hope your appointment went okay today - been thinking about you!

BrenS

September 13th, 2004, 05:44 PM

naw.. not good news. Lining was only at 2.8. insanely low.

I start progesterone tonight, and on the 23rd I go in for the biopsy. Sucks that I still have to be on the estrace and PIO. Sucks that I can't go to transfer this time... but I guess I'd rather just KNOW if there's something wrong.

Anyone have a uterus I can borrow???? :lol:

Bev

September 13th, 2004, 07:55 PM

Bren, you can borrow mine, I'm not using it right now (well, I hope I am but if not....) :)

Goo (Kim??) Good luck to you. It really is an emotional rollercoaster isn't it.

Suzi, I hope October 7th is lucky for you! :)

Suzi

September 13th, 2004, 08:58 PM

Oy Brenda...I am so sorry. I hope they can come up with something that will improve your lining next time. :hug99:

Goo

September 15th, 2004, 05:15 PM

Brenda~I'm so sorry. That just sucks. :sadhug:

Kimberly

Suzi

September 16th, 2004, 04:19 PM

Hey Brenda, I keep forgetting to tell you - thank you - I mean THANK YOU - for the offer of the Follistim but I'm gonna pass it up. We are kinda gun-shy this time about using drugs other than what we KNOW has worked in the past. I stimmed fine on Gonal-F and Repronex TWICE and then the last cycle we had to use Pergonal (and the flare protocol) and it was a big fat bust for some unknown reason. Call me superstitious but I am going back to what we KNOW has worked in the past! Hopefully you can find another deserving soul for it! Thanks again!

Suzi

September 16th, 2004, 04:21 PM

OY. :doh: I did mean to update our cycle. :rolleyes: I started Lupron shots Sunday and took my last BCP yesterday. My down-reg u/s is Tuesday and I should start stims Wednesday. We are ever-so-close.....!!! :yippee:

BrenS

September 16th, 2004, 07:35 PM

Not a problem Suzi... I'm sure I can find someone for the meds.

How exciting that you're starting Stims!!!

So they tested my progesterone today.. and found out that even with PIO, It was only 9.0. Not high enough to sustain a pregnancy. I guess things are starting to make sense. Even if my lining WAS ever thick enough... My progesterone was so low nothing would stick regardless.

So I'm increasing progesterone to 1.5 CC's tonight.. and back on Monday to another test to see if it's working.

Bev

September 16th, 2004, 08:19 PM

Good luck Brenda! At least they are figuring some things out.

Suzi, I don't understand a word in your last sentence! :lol:

My fertility clinic appointment is Sept 29!! :jump: I'll likely be in the middle of AF so hopefully they can start some blood tests or something.

Suzi

September 16th, 2004, 09:46 PM

Beverly, I'm sorry! I will explain: On Tuesday I will be on my 10th day of Lupron which is the day you go (in my long stim protocol) for a "down regulation" ultrasound. That is where they do an u/s of the ovaries and uterus to 1) make sure there are no leftover follicles/cysts from the last cycle and 2) measure the lining of the uterus. If those things check out, then everything is said to be "quiet" and you can start stimulation drugs (Gonal-F/Follistim and/or Pergonal/Repronex). Please don't hesitate to ask questions, we were all in your shoes at one time! You will get the hang of it (and probably get a LOT more info here than from your doctor - at least most feel that way!)

Good luck with your appointment - it'll be here before you know it! I'd be doubtful that they'll do any testing other than maybe draw blood for standard stuff. To do any fertility blood testing you have to have your blood drawn on very specific days of your cycle. My center does a red blood cell panel (RBC panel), an HIV test, a Rubella test, a Cystic Fibrosis test (optional but we did it), and several other things I can't remember but are run-of-the-mill tests.

Brenda, I am sorry to hear your news. They say half the purpose of IVF is diagnostic and that seems to be true in your case (even more than your share...). At least they are making headway. The increased progesterone should win one battle for you. Kepp us posted! :bighug:

Bev

September 17th, 2004, 05:26 PM

Thanks Suzi! I know I'll get more info here. Or at least, info I can understand! :)

Ana975

September 21st, 2004, 02:24 PM

I've been MIA for a while because of all the craziness around me. I had to go to Portugal for a couple of weeks because my grandfather was very ill and I wanted to say good-bye before anything happened to him. He's still hanging in but it's so sad to see him that way. Then I got back last Tuesday and Wednesday night, we get a call that my BIL fell, had to have surgery in his brain because he was bleeding really bad. He has some brain damage but we don't know how extensive it is. The good news is he woke up and he's talking but we don't know how bad the damage will be until all the swelling goes down.

As for me, I started Lupron on the 10th. Because of the time difference in Portugal I screwed up and took it a day earlier (do you think that makes a difference?). Tomorrow will be CD1. I'm spotting right now so it should be full-fledged AF by tonight. So I'm calling the RE tomorrow and I guess I'll be going in for an u/s.

Suzi, it sounds like we're pretty much on the same schedule. Does that mean my retrieval might be Oct. 7th too?

Suzi

September 21st, 2004, 03:11 PM

Hi Ana! :wavey: Sorry you have had such a time of it - not like you need any added stress right now! :hug99: As for the Lupron thing...I am guessing it won't make any difference - it is keeping you from ovulating just the same. Our schedules are pretty close, my retrieval is tentatively the 4th with transfer the 7th, I'd bet yours is the same give or take a day. Good luck, Ana!!

As for me, I had my down-reg u/s today. My E2 is 78 so all is well and I start stims tomorrow. I go for my first progress check next Tuesday, I am going to be sitting on pins and needles until then (no pun intended...). It's great to be on a first name basis with everyone at the center and everyone knows me, Chris and Julia by name...I just kinda wish they didn't just the same. I have spent this ENTIRE year in their office trying to get PG and I am SO hoping this is the last time! :crossfing

Goo

September 21st, 2004, 04:03 PM

I have spent this ENTIRE year in their office trying to get PG and I am SO hoping this is the last time!

Suzi~I hope this is the last time for you too! All looks good though so I have full confidence that this will be it. :up:

Ana~Wow! :eek: You have a lot going on. . .and I thought things we're crazy in my life. :rolleyes: I wish you all this best this cycle.

I think AF is on her way. As soon as she arrives, I start BCP and will be on that for 21 days. After that, the real action begins. :banana:

Kimberly

Bev

September 22nd, 2004, 10:25 PM

I just read an article on a new technique they are using in Vancouver at the Genesis Clinic for women over 39. I'm going to ask if the Doc I'm seeing does that too. They transfer at the blastocyst stage, not the embryo stage.

Plus I am kind of worried about my FSH level. The Compendium of Pharmaceuticals and Specialties (a book containing drug monographs) says they won't use Pergonal or Gonal-F if the FSH is so high that you are in primary ovarian failure. And I know mine was high, but I don't know how high. I was actually looking up something else, and ended up on the Pergonal page and then had a compulsion to look up Lupron and Gonal-F. I couldn't remember the names of any other drugs which was probably a good thing.

Here is the web-site for Genesis:

http://www.genesis-fertility.com/services/services7.htm

Suzi

September 22nd, 2004, 11:20 PM

The 5-day transfer at some places shows better results but not good enough to make sweeping changes in the IF community. One problem with 5-day transfers is that perfectly good pregnancies often times don't make it (most embryos don't make it to 5-day blast stage). Case in point, my ectopic PGY wouldn't have stood a chance because none of my embryos from that retrieval made it to blast - yet I had a successful PGY (even though it was ectopic, it was still perfectly formed). So, a perfect PGY never would've happened with a 5-day transfer in my case... :dunno:

Ana975

September 23rd, 2004, 02:07 PM

My RE told me that chances for a pregancy are higher at the blast-stage but they only do them if you have a very good retrieval with a lot of eggs. They don't want to risk losing the eggs by waiting for the blast-stage. Not sure if I explained that right.

Anyway, I start the Follistim tomorrow (150cc) and they are reducing the Lupron from 10 units to 5 units. I go in for bloodwork on Monday. Does that sound about right?

Goo

September 23rd, 2004, 02:27 PM

Beverly~I've inquired about the same thing myself and the explanation that I got from my Dr. is basically the same thing Suzi said.

Suzi~Hope things are going well.

Ana~Wishing you all the best. :bighug:

AF arrived today. :yippee: I called the IVF clinic to let them know that I started the BCPs and to inquire about the ordering of my drugs. So, it still won't be until Oct. 13 when I'll really be in the swing of things and beginning my shots, but I have to admit, it feels good to be back in the game. :banana:

Kimberly

Brandi Jo

September 23rd, 2004, 02:41 PM

:wavey: Hi girls, just trying to get some info...it looks like this is going to be our path in order to get child #2. Off to read all of your info so I won't be in for a shock when I go to the dr.

Suzi

September 23rd, 2004, 03:48 PM

Ana, sounds right to me! :yippee: From here on things are going to start FLYING and before you know it, you'll be at retrieval! :eek:

Kimberly, you are right behind me, girl!! :yippee: According to my figuring, I will have my first beta around October 18 so you will be stating shots before then - :woo:

Brandi Jo, WELCOME - and you've come to the right place!! IVF is a MOUNTAIN of information - anything you want to know, just ask - and remember...there's NO SUCH THING as a dumb question! :nod: Good luck!!

Another day, four more shots. I had to finish up 75IUs in a pen this morning and then mix 150IUs from vials. PLUS the Lupron shot... OY! Still don't like the pens - I will avoid getting any more of them if I can. Anyone else use the pens yet? Brenda, I know you have... What do you think of them compared to the 1200IU multi-dose? Anyone???

Ana975

September 24th, 2004, 09:31 AM

I'm using the follistim pens for the first time this cycle. Is that what your talking about? It seemed really easy when they showed me how to use it a few weeks ago. I'll let you know what I think tonight.

Suzi

September 24th, 2004, 12:00 PM

Yeah, those're the ones. We thought they'd be easy to use also - and I guess they are - I just don't like the way the pen sticks at every 75IUs when you are injecting it. To me it is better to just do the shot with the 1200IU multidose. Good luck with your first shot, Ana!!

Bev

September 24th, 2004, 09:43 PM

Suzi and Kim, I am quite ignorant about all of this stuff, and am in for quite an education.

I don't really understand what you guys mean because I thought the article was saying that if the egg divides enough to become a blastocyst then it is more likely to implant, as in order to implant it has to be a blastocyst. And that if they were implanting embryos earlier than that, they might not divide far enough and therefore not implant. Maybe I didn't understand it. I mean, I'm no biologist and never took it in school so I really have no clue.

Brandi, welcome. We can learn all this together.

Ana, Kim and Suzi good luck with the shots. :)

Suzi

September 25th, 2004, 12:21 AM

Beverly, not really. First off, after fertilization you have an embryo. It reaches blastocyte stage at 5 days post-retrieval....IF it makes it that far. Many embryos make it to 3 days and never make it to 5 days (and that happened to me). There are studies that support blastocyte transfers as more successful (i.e. the blasts are more hardy) but it just doesn't pan out in reality. Perfect example - my second IVF was a three-day transfer (and successful, albeit an ectopic - which has nothing to do with the quality of the embryo) but none of the embryos made it to blast stage. At day 3 embryos are usually 8 cells (some more, some less) and that is perfectly strong/viable to transfer back.

Of course now I will REALLY screw with your head and tell you that embryo quality has NOTHING to do with the success of the IVF cycle. I have known many women with absolutely PERFECT A+ 8- or even 10-celled embryos transferred back and have a BFN. Conversely, I have known several women who've transferred back 2 or 3 6-celled B- embryos who have gotten BFP. Embryo quality has very LITTLE to do with success rates.

As far as implantation, your RE will probably perform AZH (assisted zonal hatching) where they introduce acid to one side of the embryo prior to transfer. The acid eats away at the embryo's outer "shell" and makes it easier for implantation to occur.

Hang in there - it's a learning process with a REALLY steep learning curve! Before you know it, you'll be a pro! :nod:

Ana, hope your first shot went fine!

Bev

September 25th, 2004, 09:56 AM

Many embryos make it to 3 days and never make it to 5 days (and that happened to me). There are studies that support blastocyte transfers as more successful (i.e. the blasts are more hardy) but it just doesn't pan out in reality. Perfect example - my second IVF was a three-day transfer (and successful, albeit an ectopic - which has nothing to do with the quality of the embryo) but none of the embryos made it to blast stage.
This is the part I'm having trouble wrapping my brain around because I got the impression that in order to implant the embryo has to reach the blast stage and if it doesn't it won't implant, because it isn't going to develop properly.

I'm sure I'm going to learn more about this than I ever wanted or needed to. :lol:

Suzi

September 25th, 2004, 11:28 AM

The explanation is that it is impossible for scientists to recreate the womb environment. No matter how hard they try, the best they can do is merely a replica of the REAL womb that isn't quite the same. Theory cannot always account for reality and science cannot exactly duplicate biology.

Maybe that explanation helps?

Bev

September 25th, 2004, 09:08 PM

I get what you're saying there Suzi, but I guess it's the whole thing that I'm thinking is:

If it doesn't get to blast stage then it won't/can't implant, but you won't know if it gets there or not unless you see it, and I want to know it will work, so lets see it and then put it in so it will implant. No sense putting something in that might not work.

But of course that makes too much sense. And this is science not sense. :)

I mean, really the complete mole shouldn't have implanted, but the sperm DNA doubled and made up all the cells and then once it implanted it really wasn't anything other than a stupid tumour. I hope to hell they know they won't be implanting one of those. I really don't need another one. Can they tell if the egg has genetic info? That is my first question on my list, actually.

Suzi

September 26th, 2004, 02:11 AM

I understand your thought pattern but you are assuming blast transfers are better than 3-day transfers and that is not medically substantiated. Actually, more research shows embryos do better with a 3-day transfer than a 5-day. Like I said earlier, science cannot recreate God's handiwork and embryos do not live well outside the body. Embryos that would result in a PGY if transferred at 3 days may very well not make it to 5 days - I am living proof of that! I guess having experienced that, I'd not want to waste an opportunity for a PGY with a 3-day transfer just to do a 5-day transfer when it's quite possible the embryos won't make it that far. Just my opinion...

As for transferring embryos that might not work....I understand your fear but I'll tell you now - IVF is not for the faint at heart. You have to be willing to gamble EVERYTHING on a 50% chance at best that you will get PG. Sounds ugly, but those're the facts. :dunno: My understanding of a molar PGY is that once you've had one your chance of another molar is 20%. Not positive about that but fairly sure that's what I saw. What did your doctor tell you about subsequent molar PGYs?

I guess you will kow more soon - your appointment is coming this week! Just when you think you'll finally get all the answers, you will just end up with MORE QUESTIONS!! :tearhair: :lol:

Bev

September 26th, 2004, 09:32 AM

As for transferring embryos that might not work....I understand your fear but I'll tell you now - IVF is not for the faint at heart. You have to be willing to gamble EVERYTHING on a 50% chance at best that you will get PG. Sounds ugly, but those're the facts. :dunno: My understanding of a molar PGY is that once you've had one your chance of another molar is 20%. Not positive about that but fairly sure that's what I saw. What did your doctor tell you about subsequent molar PGYs?
Well, I think it is more like only 25% chance of succeeding at age 38, so I'm aware I'll be doing this for a while.

For a "natural" cmp, I have a 1/100 chance for the second one as opposed to 1/1500 for the first one. So basically 99/100 it will be normal. It's highly unlikely I'll have another one, but look how unlikely it was I'd get the first one!

I just want them to be able to tell that it is not an empty egg they are fertilizing because if I end up with another one, that I paid to have, well that would really suck. And I would freak out that it would go invasive again and I'd have to do the chemo and wait so fricking long to TTC again. I don't really want to be 40 and having kids, but it's getting closer every day.

Hopefully I'll get my many questions answered on Wednesday.

Thanks so much for your help. :)

Suzi

September 26th, 2004, 10:54 AM

Well, I think it is more like only 25% chance of succeeding at age 38, so I'm aware I'll be doing this for a while.
Yeah, I was talking at BEST...if you were under 35, the IF problems were DH's, etc... Ahhhh, to dream..... ;)

I just want them to be able to tell that it is not an empty egg they are fertilizing because if I end up with another one, that I paid to have, well that would really suck.
Tell me about THAT!! Earlier this year I paid $10,000 to get PG and THEN I had to pay another $2,000 to have surgery to REMOVE the ectopic PGY!! THAT is the epitome of wrong!! :lol2: If you do't laugh you have to cry... :dunno:

Bev

September 26th, 2004, 05:17 PM

Yeah that is wrong. But until it happens to some insurance big wig, it will continue as is I suppose. I'll update on Wednesday or Thursday after my appt.

Suzi

September 26th, 2004, 08:59 PM

Yeah that is wrong. But until it happens to some insurance big wig, it will continue as is I suppose. I'll update on Wednesday or Thursday after my appt.
It'll never change 'cause it will never happen to a MAN!!! :lol2:

Bev

September 26th, 2004, 09:13 PM

:duh: Of course! What was I thinking? :lol:

Suzi

September 27th, 2004, 05:37 PM

Well, tomorrow is my first progress check....I am SO nervous about it this time! Having to drop last cycle was such a nightmare (for a variety of reasons, mostly monetary) and this progress check is where I will find out if I am having another cycle like that or a good cycle.

I have to say, I do feel like I feel something. When I dropped last cycle I told Chris before we even went to the RE's office for our progress check that I didn't feel like anything was going on. This time I do feel like things are happening - sounds crazy but I think I can feel the follicles. not actually feel them but feel that my ovaries are getting crowded by the follicle growth. I know, I'm :crazy:

Just the same, I would appreciate any good prayers you might send my way... :pray:

Suzi

September 27th, 2004, 05:42 PM

Okay, so Ana, you had a progress check today, yes? How are things going?

Beverly, do you have your list of questions for the RE ready? You must be getting excited - it's the day after tomorrow, right? That's practically TOMORROW!! :yippee:

Kimberly, how are you doing? Hanging in there??

I haven't seen Brenda around - Brenda, how are you??

Bev

September 27th, 2004, 08:18 PM

Suzi

September 27th, 2004, 09:01 PM

Suzi, good luck! You aren't crazy! You know how they tell cancer patients to visualize good cells fighting the bad ones, and it supposedly works, well just tell those ovaries to get working! :)

I have some questions but I could use suggestions if you have any. DH doesn't have any, he figures I've got it covered. He really has no idea what we're doing or what is required.

How long is an IVF cycle? 28 days? Like if it doesn't work, when can you go again?
Thanks, Beverly!

Your DH is pretty much like all other DHs when it comes to IVF. I think men are pretty overwhelmed by the whole process - and who can blame them??! :dunno:

A typical IVF cycle goes like this: BCP for a month (or longer depending on if your RE does IVF in groups or by individuals), Lupron shots start 5 days before your finish BCP, then you have a down-regulation u/s 5 days after you take your last pill. As long as all is quiet at that u/s, you start stims the next day. You continue with the Lupron throughout (it keeps you from ovulating on your own) and stims typically last 12 days. You go to retrieval and then three days later you do the transfer. In all (including BCP), the cycle is about 6-7 weeks long. If the cycle is not successful, you can do another cycle as soon as you have an unregulated cycle (at my center anyways).

Hope that helps!

Bev

September 27th, 2004, 09:41 PM

Thanks! He just figures I already know all about it, and he doesn't need to know anything, as I know enough for the both of us. :lol:

So today is CD1 so I wouldn't even start the BCP until near the end of October, so mid-December by the time there would be a retrieval. It is at the University so I don't know if they do groups or individuals yet. I guess there will be students there too, but I don't care about that. I am pro-med-students poking at me. :)

What is an unregulated cycle?

Do you charge a fee for these questions? I may owe you quite a bit by the time this is over!! :lol:

Good luck tomorrow! :)

Suzi

September 27th, 2004, 10:41 PM

I also forgot to mention - your first beta is about two weeks after your retrieval. My office does it exactly two weeks after retrieval but others make you wait 18-20 days even. If you are positive you go for a second beta two days later. If your numbers are doubling as they should, things are good. Then you go back for another beta a week later. The u/s is scheduled for one week after that, or about 6 weeks when the baby's heartbeat should be audible/visible. You continue PIO shots for another 3 weeks and then have another u/s. At that time some REs have you quit PIO shots, some have you continue until you are 12 weeks. Then you are released to your regular OB and your PGY is treated completely NORMAL (lots of women have trouble with this after being treated so regularly in the RE's office).

What is an unregulated cycle?

An unregulated cycle is a cycle free of any medications. So if you get a BFN AF will show up within 4 days (or so) of the time that you quit PIO (progesterone in oil) shots and then you have to wait for the beginning of your next cycle to start a new IVF cycle.

Do you charge a fee for these questions? I may owe you quite a bit by the time this is over!! :lol:

The only thing you need to do to pay me back is learn everything you can so you can someday help others new to IVF! It's a scary time and being able to ask questions of people who will tell you the REAL truth is absolutely invaluable! :nod:

Bev

September 28th, 2004, 07:06 AM

Thanks again Suzi! I will get lots of betas and u/s from my reg OB because of the molar, so I'm set that way, I'm already "High Risk" without the IVF. I'd rather go back to the OB as he's 15 min away rather than 2 hours.

Good luck today! :) :crossfing

Ana975

September 28th, 2004, 10:47 AM

Suzi, I've learned so much from you over the last couple of weeks! Thanks so much!

Bev, good luck at your appointment!

I went in for bloodwork yesterday and they decreased the Follistim from 150 to 75. They told me to come back today but I understood Wednesday so I never showed up for my appointment his morning :blush: But they did call me and I rushed over there and got more bloodwork done and an u/s. There were lots of small follies and one was measuring at 10 something and another at 9.3. They'll be calling this afternoon with more instructions.

Suzi, is it normal for them to decrease the Follistim so early? I was probably just responding to quickly, right? I got a little nervous yesterday when they lowered it, but I feel good today because I saw at least 2 follies that looked really good.

Suzi

September 28th, 2004, 11:34 AM

Ana, you are shooting for those follicles to measure around 19/20 the day of the trigger shot. You have a good start and no, it is not abnormal for them to lower your dosage. All the bloodwork they do before you start your cycle gives them an idea where to start your stims and that just means you are responding better than they originally expected. There IS such a thing as Ovarian Hyper-Stimulation (OHS) and that is SERIOUS but you are no where near that so don't worry.

It is my guess you will continue on your current dosage and see them in two days. :yippee:

Suzi

September 28th, 2004, 11:35 AM

Preliminary results are in from my u/s and things are not looking good. The IVF coord was able to spot a total of only three follicles (16, 14. 14). I am waiting for a personal call back from the IVF coord with my E2 results. Depending on the number, we may be dropping our cycle - again. :bawl: I don't believe this is happening again...

Ana975

September 28th, 2004, 12:11 PM

Suzi, you really are good at this. While the nurse was doing my u/s, she said that she would guess the dr would want me back there in 2 days.

About your cycle, I don't understand. If you have 3 follicles, why would you have to drop this cycle when you still have more days of stims? Or do they only do IVFs with a certain number of follicles?

Suzi

September 28th, 2004, 01:17 PM

An average IVF cycle produces around 15-20 follicles. The IVF cycle I got PG with Julia I produced only 9. The ectopic cycle I produced only 9. Last cycle I had to drop because we only had 3 (and low E2 levels). Today we have three, still waiting on the E2 level. My center's cut-off for where they suggest to drop a cycle is around 4-5 follicles. That gives a reasonable expectation that you will have 2 or 3 embryos for transfer and nothing left over to freeze. Anything less and you cannot reasonably expect 2-3 embryos.

As far as hanging on there, my follicles are 14, 10 and 10. If I were to produce more follicles they would be much smaller than the existing follicles. Going to retrieval is all about COHORT group. The trick is to get MOST of the follicles between 18-22mm in size. Anything smaller and they are not mature, anything larger and they are over-mature. If I were to grow more follicles now and wait for them to reach maturity, the existing follicles would be wasted because they would pass the "sweet spot" so to speak. Hmmm...Does that make sense?

I am still waiting to hear back from my IVF coord. I wish she'd call already! :tearhair:

Ana975

September 28th, 2004, 01:20 PM

That makes sense.

Goo

September 28th, 2004, 01:54 PM

Depending on the number, we may be dropping our cycle - again.

Suzi~No, no, no! This is not over. You will have more follicles! :bighug: A few of my cycles have been in jeopardy of being canceled. . .and then, one or two more always creep in there. At my clinic, they like to see at least 4. The most I've had is 9, the least is 5. I don't produce many follicles either.

I apologize for being so brief right now, but I'm so busy. I did read all your posts Suzi. . .I seriously think that you could be employed as an IF specialist.

I'm fine. I've started the BCPs. They always make me a bit crazy. :screwy: It's been a bit of an effort to get through each day without having a temper tantrum. I'm hanging in there.

I'll write more soon.

Kimberly

Ana975

September 28th, 2004, 02:38 PM

Just got my instructions. I'm to continue at 75 units and go back for bloodwork tomorrow. She said my estrogen levels are at 676. I asked if that is okay she said it was on the low side but still within range.

Suzi, do you agree?

Suzi

September 28th, 2004, 03:35 PM

Hmmmm... Without seeing how many smaller follicles you have, it's hard to say. You said you have a 10 and a 9 and several smaller ones, right? E2 at 676 for that sounds HIGH to me but again, without seeing/knowing how many smaller ones you have, it's hard to say. When all is said and done, your E2 is about 200-250 per follicle right before retreival. It will be easier to say when your follicles are larger and you have a better count and size.

Ana, at this point I'd say you are doing GREAT!! :aok:

Suzi

September 28th, 2004, 03:45 PM

I seriously think that you could be employed as an IF specialist.

You are sweet to say that! I have thought about it a few times - or something like that. I keep thinking that I could bring a unique view to my IVF center if I decided I want to work there - ie, nurse or even take referrals from there as a counselor. There is only ONE therapist in the entire city of Wichita who has fertility experience - how sad.

As for dropping, we are hanging in at least until Thursday. My E2 is a meager 286 today. It costs us almost $400 a day in shots but we think this cycle may POSSIBLY be saved so we'll hang in.

I am so afraid that this is all happening because of my age. I am afraid that something happened between last February and July that changed my fertilty. My family has a history of early menopause and I am getting pretty close to 40. I looked at the success rates for my center and the 35-37 success rate is 40%. The 38-40 rate PLUMMETS to 12% - I am only a few weeks from 38. I am just sick that this is happening.

Anyway, we are hanging in for another scan and E2 level on Thursday. Chris thinks that if we can REASONABLY expect to get 3/4/5 eggs from the follicles, that we will go ahead with the retrieval. Our ectopic cycle we had 7 follicles and 5 mature eggs. Of the 5 mature eggs, 100% of them fertilized - that is VERY good, usually it's only around 75% fertilization. If we can reasonably expect to get 5 eggs that are the right maturity (heck, even 3), we could expect all of them to fertilize and we only need 3 embryos when all is said and done.

Say some prayers for me, if you don't mind. I feel like I really need them!

Ana975

September 28th, 2004, 04:00 PM

Suzi

September 28th, 2004, 04:21 PM

I have lots of smaller ones. She measured a few at 5, 6, 7 knowing they were small so I guess that's good. She said with PCOS you have lots of follicles and you sorta have to take it slow at one point so that we don't blow up to much (whatever that means).
Oh, PCOS...okay. She is talking about "prolonged coasting." Women with PCOS tend to produce lots of follicles and that can lead to OHS (what she's referring to when she says "blow up too much."). Often times REs will trigger early when you have PCOS (because of fear of OHS) and fertilization/success rates for PCOS women are lower than average because of it. Optimally, you want to trigger when the largest amount of your follicles are 18-22mm, just keep that in mind.

Suzi

September 28th, 2004, 04:22 PM

And thanks for the prayers! :nod:

BrenS

September 28th, 2004, 04:38 PM

Sorry ladies, I haven't been around too much. I've been in a "funk" for a few weeks that I just can't get out of. :(

I had my biopsy yesterday.. and it was SOOOO painful. I was already cramping from all the progesterone. Usually during an endo biopsy, they take 1-2 samples. well yesterday they took 10 from all around the uterus. I had even taken Xanax before the appointment, and it still was just soooo bad. Once he was done, I was so dizzy I threw up all over his floor. :lol: He just made me lay there for another 10-15 minutes while the cramping subsided. It never went away.. and I've been spotting brown blood ever since.

So now I just wait for AF to arrive.. and wait for the results of the biospy. They're looking for the maturity of the lining. If the lining shows it was mature enough at 3.8mm, then they'll assume it was progesterone that my body needed, and we'll know that for next time. If it wasn't mature, then we'll need to try something else.. perhaps Estrogen In Oil.. just like PIO.. instead of estrace.

My bloodwork yesterday was perfect. Progesterone was 30, and estrodial was over 1200... So that means I really do need 1.5 cc of progesterone instead of 1cc. now if I could only convince my very lumpy and bruised ass. :lol:

Suzi.. I'm not giving up hope that your cycle will be a success. As for having eggs that go past maturity... I've had that happen with every single cycle. I always have 1-2 that go past.. and the middle ones are the best of the bunch. I don't see why they wouldn't just let you go and take their chances on the one catching up... seems to work for alot of people. As long as your levels are rising at a good rate, then the hormones are doing their job.

Ana... how are you doing with side effects?? I think your last levels were pretty good for the amount of follicles you have. You don't want it to get TOO high too fast or you'll risk OHSS.. and that's no fun.

Suzi

September 28th, 2004, 05:31 PM

Oh yeah, I forgot to correct my post before - my follicles are 16, 14, and 14.

Suzi

September 28th, 2004, 05:39 PM

Brenda, I am so sorry that the biopsy was so painful. :hug99: At least it's over now. I hope they are able to get good info from the tissue samples - at least they are being thorough. Any idea when the biopsy results are back?

I am not optimistic that I will have any follicles besides the three that were counted. With an E2 as low as mine, three follicles is all that you could expect - pretty unlikely there are any hiding. I am not throwing in the towel just yet but I am balling it up to chuck it. :lol:

I have been thinking if we drop this cycle we may go back and try the microdose flare protocol again (my IVF coord calls that protocol "The Big Guns." I am on the maximum of everything they give, there's no reason I should be so low. I guess if I look at the bright side, Chris's faith in our center and RE has been restored a bit. Chris still blamed him for our last dropped cycle because I didn't respond. I guess it wasn't such a fluke afterall. :dunno:

Bev

September 28th, 2004, 08:34 PM

Oh Bren! Sorry your biopsy was so painful. :hug99: I hope they can figure everything out soon.

Ana, I guess things are good for you! At least that is what the guru says, and I tend to believe her. Good luck on Thursday. :)

Suzi, I hope things work out for you. I don't know why they wouldn't try to catch a few more. I am worried about my age too, I am already 38. I'm so paranoid about it, it's not even funny. But the good news is my Mom had my brother at age 38 and he's fairly normal. :)

I'll write tomorrow about my big adventure at the clinic. :)

Suzi

September 28th, 2004, 08:35 PM

Good luck tomorrow, Bev...I'll be waiting anxiously for an update!

Suzi

September 29th, 2004, 03:55 PM

Ana, any news on your E2 levels today??

Bev, I hope your appointment is going/went well!!

BrenS

September 29th, 2004, 04:47 PM

Yo suzi.. check your PM's at TOF. :lol:

BrenS

September 29th, 2004, 05:05 PM

Another day, four more shots. I had to finish up 75IUs in a pen this morning and then mix 150IUs from vials. PLUS the Lupron shot... OY! Still don't like the pens - I will avoid getting any more of them if I can. Anyone else use the pens yet? Brenda, I know you have... What do you think of them compared to the 1200IU multi-dose? Anyone???

Yanno I never answered this. :lol:

Are you talking about the follistim Pen? That's the only Pen I've ever used, and it only takes the 300iu and 600iu vials of follistim. I've never used any multi-dose, even though I know they exist for gonal-f.

does Gonal-f have a pen now too?

I really liked the pen.... I HATE mixing, and the pen was easier to use.

I just PMd you about it over at TOF... :lol:

Bev

September 29th, 2004, 07:56 PM

Fook Fook FOOK!!!! I just found out my fooking FSH level from July is fooking 14!! That is NO GOOD!! I knew it was "elevated" but I didn't know it was so high. If this one today is 15 or more they won't do anything at all for me because my 38 year old eggs are no good.
:furious: FOOK! :furious:

So, I am not particularly happy with my appointment. I had that CD 3 test (FSH, LH, TSH, Prolactin and Estradiol) today as well as we both had tests for blood borne diseases. Next CD1 I am to call to schedule an HSG (dye test for the tubes) and a semen analysis for Patrick. I don't know if they'll even do that if my FSH is so high. 14 is marginal and they might not do anything for me if it is 14 again.

My mitigating factors are that I was already pregnant twice, the aggravating factor, my FSH level, my age although he didn't say so, and he said the chemo probably made my eggs "not so happy" and we don't know about scarring etc from the two D&C I had to have.

Cross your fingers and pray that this test comes out lower than 14. :crossfing

Ana975

September 29th, 2004, 09:15 PM

I'm sorry Bev :bighug:

I didn't get the number on my estrogen today but they lowered my dose to 37.5. Should I be worried that they keep lowering it or does it mean that I'm just reacting to fast?

Bev

September 29th, 2004, 10:05 PM

Hey Ana, I just found a super good website that explains things in plain English. Much like Suzi does. ;)

www.advancedfertility.com (http://www.advancedfertility.com)

and

www.inciid.org (http://www.inciid.org) might be helpful too.

Suzi

September 29th, 2004, 10:38 PM

Beverly, I am sorry that your CD3s came out high. They can be variable - I had a higher (although within normal limits) CD3 level for my first IVF than did for my second!! So it CAN go back down from month to month. :hug99: Hang in there. When do you get the results from today's CD3?

Ana, I wouldn't worry - for cycles with PCOS patients, coasting is normal. Hang in there! When do you go next?

Me...nervous about tomorrow. My center is giving me some drugs for tomorrow so we can decide what we are going to do but then we have to get more drugs if we decide to continue. Brenda is nice enough to share her extras with me...THANK YOU BRENDA!!! I don't know...going to retrieval with THREE follicles sounds INSANE to me!! :crazy:

Say some prayers for me - I will post when I have tomorrow's results!

Ana975

September 30th, 2004, 09:21 AM

I'm praying real hard Suzi!

Beverly, thanks for those websites. I have to check them out!

Me...I went in for more bloodwork (my arms hurt and look so bad) and an u/s this morning. I have 8 follicles measuring between 10-13. I was pretty happy with that! There were a few 9s but they don't count those yet. I'll let you know what they say once I hear back this afternoon.

Suzi

September 30th, 2004, 01:09 PM

Ana, you are doing great - right on track! The websites Beverly posted are great resources.

As for me, we had our u/s this morning and we have only 3 follicles - that's it. We have until tomorrow before we have to decide for SURE if we are going to retrieval or not. We'd be crazy to take a $6000 chance on that. But we don't know if we'll ever get another good cycle. Chris is leaning towards going. I am leaning towards dropping. I just can't believe I am sitting here with this decision AGAIN.

I don't know my E2 today yet (I'll know around 2pm) but we are tentative for retrieval on Sunday if we go ahead. I am just sitting here waiting for some divine inspiration...

Ana975

September 30th, 2004, 01:47 PM

Suzi, you definately have a tough decision to make. I don't know what I would do. Actually, I think I'd probably go for it and see what happens. I know it's an expensive gamble, but if this is the 2nd time in a row this has happened, then I'd be willing to take the chance.

If you do decide to drop, I'll send you whatever meds I have left over from this cycle. I think I may end up with at least two 600 cartridges of Follistim.

Suzi

September 30th, 2004, 04:07 PM

Ana, that is very nice of you - thanks! I may take you up on the extra drugs - if we go through with this cycle and get a BFN, your extra cartridges would make a dent in the expense of another round of drugs... :nod:

Suzi

September 30th, 2004, 04:09 PM

Actually, I think I'd probably go for it and see what happens. I know it's an expensive gamble, but if this is the 2nd time in a row this has happened, then I'd be willing to take the chance.
Hmmm... That comment struck me for some reason. Maybe it does make sense for us to go through with it afterall. :confused:

Bev

October 1st, 2004, 06:56 AM

Suzi that is exactly the Doc's concern with the high FSH. They say even if you only had a high one once, it means you won't repsond as well to the stims. From what I've read I think the Lupron Flare Protocol would work best for me, but what do I know. I forgot to tell the Doc that my Mom had my brother when she was 38, so that should be a mitigating factor for me too. Plus I got at least 2 possibly 3 follies from the lowest dose of Clomid. It is a hard decision, but for me the chance would be worth it. I can go without a vacation or new couch if it means a chance, KWIM? We re-financed our mortgage in anticipation of this. Mind you we had been paying a lot extra so all it means is it will take us longer to pay of the house, but big deal.

Good luck with whatever you decide. :hug99:

Ana sounds good! :)

Ana975

October 1st, 2004, 08:35 AM

Just got back from another u/s and today I had 14!

Suzi, I wasn't trying to change your mind as to what you should do. You know so much more about all this than me so that probably makes your decision even harder, whereas I'd be willing to just take a gamble. Last night, I was thinking about you and had an idea. It's probably no good, but I thought maybe you could go through the retrieval, freeze the eggs and go through another round IVF and then you'll have the new eggs and the old ones to work with. I'm sure this is probably way to costly but I thought I'd throw it out there. It just seems like you went through so much to just drop this cycle without gaining anything from it. Does that make sense?

BrenS

October 1st, 2004, 02:44 PM

Suzi.. I sent you a PM about the package I sent you. EEK!

Suzi

October 1st, 2004, 03:39 PM

No worries, Brenda - got it safe and sound! :aok: THANKS!

Ana, you are progressing nicely - not too much longer for you!

Beverly, you are exactly, right. Actually, if you DON'T do the microdose Lupron flare protocol, I'd be asking some questions! That DOES mean the your cycle will be bit shorter :yippee: Any idea when the CD3s from the other day will come back?

Well, our three follicles grew to 19, 18, and 16. We trigger tonight and go to retrieval on Sunday - I must be insane. We are continuing shots tonight and tomorrow though - that is new for me. The retrieval is Sunday at 9am, I will post an update as soon as I am moving around in the afternoon - probably before Julia gets up from her nap, late afternoon. :pray: I am praying my heart out...

BrenS

October 1st, 2004, 03:43 PM

you're continuing the stim shots even though you trigger? That's interesting.

Glad you got it.... I've had major meltdown issues today and totally freaked when I saw they were going to "redeliver".

Suzi

October 1st, 2004, 03:46 PM

No more meltdowns! :nono: Stop at Starbuck's on the way home and get yourself a treat - it's FRIDAY!!!! :nod:

BrenS

October 1st, 2004, 03:52 PM

I stay home... and if I weren't bleeding so heavy... I'd consider going to starbucks. :lol:

The meltdown.

Letter in the mail today from Brigham and Womens... saying that my new doc is Dr. Fox.... and her plan is for me to do a trial cycle with Viagra and Baby Aspirin.. THEN have a biopsy.

HELLO... my doc is Hornstein... and I just HAD a biopsy not using Viagra or Baby aspirin.. and I'm NOT doing another one.

I called the nurse and told her she may as well call in a prescript for Zoloft because they were driving me insane. I want freakin' explainations as to WHO my doctor is.. and what the fuck with another BIOPSY? Do they NOT know that I just had one on Monday. This letter is dated last Friday... so they apparently don't communicate.

Suzi

October 1st, 2004, 04:08 PM

:doh: OY!! I understand your meltdown - hope you got it all straightened out!! After your description of the biopsy, I think I'd have driven down there and smashed some heads together!

If I lived closer (a LOT closer!) I'd bring you a Starbuck's myself... :hug99:

BrenS

October 1st, 2004, 04:12 PM

No I still don't have any answers... no one has called me back yet.

~Andrea~

October 1st, 2004, 04:23 PM

Suzi I am praying for you as well.

and B you know how I feel about YOU :kiss:

Best of luck to Beverly and Ana and Kimberly as well :hug99:

Bev

October 1st, 2004, 08:00 PM

Suzi, I'm glad you're going for it! :aok: I'll be thinking of you on Sunday and praying things work out! :)

Brenda I hope they get their act together soon. The right hand doesn't know what the left is doing. :disbelief That's supposed to be an excellent hospital.

Ana, sounds good!

I'm glad to know my reading is paying off Suzi! :) I don't know when the results will get in, but the HIV etc won't be in for a month or so. I'm supposed to call when I get my next AF to set up the HSG etc. I might email them to ask for the results, I doubt they'd give it to me over the phone.

Ana975

October 2nd, 2004, 05:06 PM

Suzi, good luck tomorrow. I'll be praying that this is it!

I had another u/s today and I have 27 follies! I trigger tonight and Monday I go in at 10.

Suzi

October 2nd, 2004, 06:25 PM

Ana, that is LOTS of follicles - and just one day behind me!! Just a word of caution - make sure you pay attention to sudden weight gain, trouble breathing, etc. after retrieval...more than 25 follicles is suspect for OHS.

YIPPEE!! How exciting!! :yippee:

Bev

October 3rd, 2004, 07:46 AM

Good luck today Suzi! :crossfing And good luck on Monday Ana! :)

Suzi

October 3rd, 2004, 03:21 PM

From my journal:

Thanks so much to everyone for your thoughts and prayers! I am still a little nauseous from the anesthesia so this will be short. We got three eggs at retrieval today, so we have cleared our first big hurdle! :yippee: Tomorrow afternoon I will get the fertility report and that will tell me how many embryos we will have for transfer. I am so excited about getting the three eggs that I am actually beginning to believe this might work!

Back to the couch!

Bev

October 3rd, 2004, 04:14 PM

I hope they are all good ones! :) Will you transfer them all?

Suzi

October 3rd, 2004, 05:13 PM

If we have three, we will transfer three. If you ask me, best case scenario we end up with twins (Chris has a different opinion depending on what hour you ask him!).

Bev

October 3rd, 2004, 08:20 PM

I peeked at your journal today Suzi, and I think our thoughts are quite similar. :) Could be because we are both (or at least one of us is and one almost is) 38. I would have transferred all three too. I hope we are going to be able to do the procedure in the first place, so we'll have to wait and see, but I sure never wanted Mason to be a single/only child.

Good luck tomorrow Ana! :)

Ana975

October 3rd, 2004, 11:14 PM

Thanks Beverly!

Suzi, I'm so happy you had three eggs! All our prayers are working!

Suzi

October 4th, 2004, 09:33 AM

Ana, I am praying everything is going smoothly!!

Suzi

October 4th, 2004, 01:53 PM

:yippee: :yippee: :yippee: :yippee: :yippee: :yippee: :yippee: :yippee: :yippee: :yippee: :yippee:
:omg:I feel unbelievably blessed and lucky - we have THREE embryos!! :faint: The IVF coord said they are all beautiful and dividing very nicely without fragmentation! This is the BEST news yet!!!
:yippee: :yippee: :yippee: :yippee: :yippee: :yippee: :yippee: :yippee: :yippee: :yippee: :yippee:

We go for our transfer at 10:30am Wednesday. I don't think it can get here fast enough!! :pray: Thank you God!!

Suzi

October 4th, 2004, 01:56 PM

With that happy news....

Ana, I hope you are doing well and laying low for the day. The day of retrieval can be pretty stressful! Make sure you get lots of rest and tomorrow you will feel better - really!

Brenda, did you ever find anything out about what's going on at your center? Did they clear it up for you (or did you get them straightened out!! :lol2: )

Kimberly, you should be getting ready for AF to show. Then you are on with the cycle! :yippee:

Beverly, any news on the CD3s yet? :dunno:

Brooke

October 4th, 2004, 03:04 PM

Coming out of silent cheerleader mode to say...

:yippee: Suzi! Fantastic news! Sending lots of prayers for your 3 little embryos and I hope the transfer goes well on Wednesday.

Ana - I hope your retrieval went well. Can't wait to hear.

And best of luck to Beverly, Bren, and Kim.

Ana975

October 4th, 2004, 04:49 PM

Suzi, I am soo soo happy for you! And I'm so glad you listened to me and went for it! (j/k of course)!

My retrieval went great! I was a nervous wreck and couldn't wait to get it over with but everything went well and they retrieved 7 eggs! Hopefully, everything from here on out will go just as well. They'll be calling me tomorrow to let me know how many fertilized. I'm a little crampy, but it's not bad at all.

Now, my dilemma is how many we should transfer. My doctor recommends 2 because of my age but I kinda want to do 3. I don't know what to do. Any suggestions?

Bev

October 4th, 2004, 04:52 PM

Suzi! I'm so excited! I can't wait for Wednesday! Or 18 days after Wednesday! I wish you the best of luck! :)

Suzi

October 4th, 2004, 05:24 PM

Ana, the 7 eggs is GREAT! As for what to transfer back, wait until you get the fert report. You may only get 4 or 5 that are fertilized and growing - and your transfer decision will be affected by that number. Tomorrow, when you KNOW what you have fertilized, then you can make the decision what to put back. Until then just rest and stay comfy!

CONGRATULATIONS, MOMMA!! Those are your babies!! :nod:

Suzi

October 4th, 2004, 05:25 PM

Suzi! I'm so excited! I can't wait for Wednesday! Or 18 days after Wednesday! I wish you the best of luck! :)
Actually, not even that long! I have a beta on the 18th, so all I have to wait is TWO WEEKS FROM TODAY!!! :yippee:

Bev

October 4th, 2004, 06:45 PM

:woo: Suzi!

And :woo: Ana! (I had to go earlier) I agree with Suzi. You want to freeze some for later if you need them for number 2. Or 3. :) So are you doing the transfer on Thursday?

Goo

October 4th, 2004, 07:31 PM

I'm about ready to pull my hair out! :tearhair:

I literally just wrote a book. I think it was my longest post to date and it was all about advancing age and inferility. Well, I lost it all! :furious: I'm so frustrated and tired now, so although this may be brief, my good intentions are there.

Suzi~:banana: You rock girl! :yippee: I'm so happy for you! :bighug:

Ana~Things are looking great for you! :up:

Bren~I'm shocked. Brigham and Women's are known to be a great hospital. I'm so sorry to hear what you're going through. Please let us know how things evolve and how Brigham and Women's is going to compensate you for the misery they've put you through.

Bev~I'm so sorry. :sadhug:

I continued my response to Bev in an overall statement here about why you 38/39 year olds should not fear about your age. I'm 40 and this is a subject that is near and dear to my heart. :awink: I basically quoted from several different texts, all the reasons that you ladies should not fear about your age. In a nutshell, I mention some 8 or 9 quotes by various MDs such as this. . .

Dr. Christiane Northup - "A great disservice is done when 'science' undermines the confidence of an entire group of women (everyone over age 35) concerning their fertility."

Dr. Laurie Green - "Study after study shows that there is a mind-body connection and that if we convince patients they have no reason to hope, that lack of hope will be reflected in their bodies."

Then I talk about the Huichol Indians of Mexico who have children in their 50s and even some in their 60s. . .

Then I told of the various women I know in my peer group who didn't start having children until their late 30's/early 40's (most of the women I know) and then I mention a book called, "The Infertility Cure" by Dr. Randine Lewis. I think her website is www.easternharmonyclinic.com. Anyway, she recounts stories of where she has treated many women who came to her after being turned away from their IVF clinics for too high FSH levels. She has studied both Western and Eastern medicine and with the combination of changes in diet and lifestyle, herbal medicine, and acupuncture, she has helped many, many women become pregnant. . .even some who were already in early menapause. I am reading her book and have made many dietary changes and I have definitely noticed a difference. In addition, specifically for Suzi, should you need to go through this again (which I hope not), studies show that adding acupuncture during an IVF cycle shows a marked increase in follicular growth.

Anyway, blah blah blah. It was all much longer, so you all just got the abridged version.

I'm on BCP now. I've been somewhat MIA, because I am busy, but also because the BCPs are making me quite moody so I have counteract that by doing everything I can to take it easy, meditate, rest, and avoid conflicts whenever I can. I can't let these BCPs get the better of me, you know? I was supposed to be on the BCPs until CD21 and then I would start Lupron on CD24. I tell you, I couldn't wait until that day, but circumstances have it (nothing to do with me reproductively) where I have to delay my retrieval by about 3 weeks and thus, I'm going to stay on the BCP that much longer. :crazy: I'll explain more later, but I think I should meditate since I'm still reeling at the fact that I lost my first *very long* post. :silly:

I wish you all well. :grouphug:

Kimberly

Goo

October 4th, 2004, 07:34 PM

Goo

October 4th, 2004, 07:36 PM

And then I go and send the email twice!!!???? I must be loosing my mind. If you don't mind, I must go lay down and meditate now. :)

Bev

October 4th, 2004, 08:30 PM

Hi Kim, I'm sorry things are sucking for you. :hug99: I agree with Dr. Northup. I certainly don't feel my fertility should be an issue but the hype gets to you after a while. I will definitely try to find that book you mentioned. I hope this next cycle does the trick for you. :)

JuniperJen

October 4th, 2004, 09:53 PM

Hello! I have been lurking in this thread for a while and finally wanted to introduce myself. :)

My name is Jennifer. I am 32 and my DH, Lorne, is 35. We have been married for 3 1/2 years and have been TTC for 3 years. We did get pg naturally in 2002, but m/c at 10 weeks. Since then, we have not been successful. We started seeing an RE last October. We did 4 cycles of 100mg of Clomid. We then tried 3 cycles of Clomid/HCG shot/IUI/Estrace. At the time, the insurance I had covered 0% of infertility treatment. Our RE moved to Florida in March, so we have been taking a break from treatments since then.
I did some research and found that I did have an insurance option that would cover up to $15,000 for IVF :yippee: It will not cover any of my medication, but it will definitely help us. My insurance went into effect on Oct. 1, so I had an appointment this morning with a new RE! :)
I am so excited. We will be having IVF in November. :jump: Today, the RE did some bloodwork, an u/s, and signed us up for our IVF class at the end of October. I started BCP today. I will be starting Lupron on Oct. 28.

I am sure I will have MANY questions over the next two months. I have already learned so much from reading about your experiences! :)

Jennifer

Suzi

October 4th, 2004, 11:21 PM

WELCOME JENNIFER!! I hate that we have to meet in this thread but we'll take it just the same! I'm glad you have been lurking and reading - there's mountains of info to learn, that's for sure. Don't be afraind to ask questions or opinions here - we are all very open and willing to share our experiences! IVF is an emotional roller coaster and the more help/support/understanding you get, the easier it will be - trust me on that one!

Also, be sure to ask around about drugs when you are ready to order them - pricing can vary GREATLY!! And I have great tips for injections, too! :nod:

Welcome again and I wish you much success in your upcoming cycle!

Ana975

October 5th, 2004, 08:45 AM

CONGRATULATIONS, MOMMA!! Those are your babies!! :nod: I keep coming back to this post and reading it over and over. It's the first time someone has called me Momma (well, except when they refer to my kitties, but that doesn't count :lol: ). I love the sound of it! Thanks for making me smile and for all the advice. I couldn't have done it without you or Brenda or Kim or Beverly!

Welcome Jennifer! If there's anything I can help you with, just ask!

Ana975

October 5th, 2004, 09:48 AM

Just heard back from the embryologist and 3 fertilized. I've decided to put them all in and thankfully Justin is okay with that. Once again, I'm a nervous wreck. It felt good knowing that I had 7 and a lot to pick from but now it's only down to 3 and I keep wondering if it'll work. I know I only need 1 to work so having 3 is great but I'm still nervous.

Suzi

October 5th, 2004, 10:49 AM

Ana, that's GREAT!! Like I said, you can't ever decide what you are transferring back until you get that fert report! :lol: You have nothing to worry about with the three embryos, that will give you a VERY good chance at getting PG. Just be sure that you and Justin have discussed what happens if you end up with triplets because that IS a possibility. :awink:

CONGRATULATIONS!!! You have three babies!! :nod:

Goo

October 5th, 2004, 01:55 PM

Feeling a tad bit better, but still having a rough time. It stinks being at work in my delicate condition! :thumbsdow

Ana~Awesome news. :yippee: I wish you all the best.

Jennifer~ :welcome: Your situation actually sounds similair to mine where we got pregnant quite easily, I m/c'd and then nothing for the following 9 months or so until I finally decided to see a Dr. (this is also because I was already 36 yrs. old at the time). Anyway, we're here for you but I hope you don't have to stay very long. :bighug: I'm going on my 7th IVF and consider myself an oldtimer, but it's Suzi who's the brain around here. . .she's the one who can make clear sense and translate for the rest of us, all these confusing medical terms. I wish you a very short stay.

Kimberly

Bev

October 5th, 2004, 06:55 PM

Congratulations Ana (or should I say Mummy)!

Suzi, good luck tomorrow!

Kim, I hope you are feeling better soon. :hug99:

Brenda how are you doing? :)

Jennifer Hi! :wavey: You are ahead of me in the process, I wish you well! :)

I called the clinic and was surprised she was willing to give me my results over the phone. I didn't want to push it so I only asked for the FSH and the Estradiol (or whatever). They were 11 and 115 respectively, so not bad. I'm pleased the FSH was lower and closer to "normal." I'll have to check the other website about the Estradiol.

I'm sending gooey, wet, oozing purple sticky vibes to Suzi and Ana! :) Good luck with your transfers. You'll both be having triplets before too long.

Bev

October 5th, 2004, 09:16 PM

RATS!!

My FSH was 11, better than the 14 I had before but... 10 - 12Reduced ovarian reserve. Usually show a reduced response to stimulation and some reduction in egg and embryo quality with IVF. Reduced live birth rates on the average.12 - 17Generally show a more marked reduction in response to stimulation and usually a further reduction in egg and embryo quality with IVF. Low live birth rates.

My Estradiol was abnormal. 115:
The idea of using day 3 estradiol levels as an adjunct in evaluating egg quantity and quality is relatively new. Clearly defined cutoff values for normal and abnormal are not well defined and are also lab-dependent. I like to see the day 3 estradiol less than about 80. In our experience, levels of 80-100 are borderline, and over 100 is abnormal.

I didn't ask for the rest of the results. I don't know what they're going to do, I don't go back until the end of October or thereabouts.

Ana975

October 6th, 2004, 09:01 AM

Suzi, good luck today!

I have a kinda gross question to ask you girls. I've been inserting the progesterone pills vaginally but I'm not sure how far up I'm supposed to stick these things. I think I'm getting it pretty far but I'm having some oozing issues. Is that normal? Should I be going farther? I know this is a totally disgusting question but I have no idea who else to ask.

Suzi

October 6th, 2004, 10:18 AM

Oozing is normal - progesterone suppositories are a freaking mess. That is the advantage of PIO shots over the suppositories... :dunno:

I am so excited and nervous and scared...I want so badly for this to work...I hate to even say how much because I don't want to make it real (does that make sense??). I woke up this morning and my first thought of the day was...my entire life could change today. Oh, how I pray... :pray:

We are leaving here in an hour for the RE's office. The transfer is very simple - no biggie. Please send some extra prayers this way if you remember!

Ana975

October 6th, 2004, 10:55 AM

I am so excited and nervous and scared...I want so badly for this to work...I hate to even say how much because I don't want to make it real (does that make sense??). I woke up this morning and my first thought of the day was...my entire life could change today. Oh, how I pray... :pray: That's exactly how I feel!

Please send some extra prayers this way if you remember! Remember? How can I forget? You are on my mind constantly (no word of a lie) since you are going through EXACTLY what I am right now. I think about my embryos and think about yours and pray that this works for the both of us. It would be so awesome if we both get some positive news from this.

Suzi

October 6th, 2004, 06:07 PM

Somehow Ana, I knew it'd make sense to you! :lol:

How lucky can we get...they all THREE survived!! We transferred THREE beautiful embryos today, a 6-cell, a 7-cell, and an 8-cell! Right now, I am a HAPPY momma of TRIPLETS!! :biggrin: My RE is very optimistic that we will have a PGY out of this transfer - he even told us that he wouldn't be surprised if it turns out to be TWINS! He did mention that he believes in the power of visualization so he said it sure wouldn't hurt us to visualize our embryos implanting and growing. You can bet my mind will be focused on that for the next 11 days!!

I am feeling good - a TAD crampy now and then, but I feel perfectly fine. I am TRYING to lay a little low this afternoon and it's a good day for it - cool and rainy. Chris is working from home today to keep me from being up too much - HA! It's HARD to sit still when you are used to being on the go all the time and to top it off, you feel FINE!

I am so excited about this transfer - I feel VERY optimistic! I can't tell you ALL how much your prayers and thoughts mean to me! I just hope that I can give back to you (and anyone else who happens along this thread in a time of need) the strength to face the scary world of IVF. Having some hands to hold along the way sure does make it easier to get through it! Whether this works or not, I just have to say that I feel so lucky to have such a wonderful group of supportive, caring women like I do here!

:bighug: to ALL of you!!!

Ana975

October 6th, 2004, 06:47 PM

I am so happy that they all survived! The next two weeks won't go by fast enough!

Suzi

October 6th, 2004, 08:47 PM

You ain't kidding, sister! My cycle in Feb I tested early and I re-learned a VERY good lesson...don't EVER test early! I tested just 5-6 days after the transfer and I got a negative (what I was expecting to make certain the hCG shot was gone from my body since it can remain for up to 15 days). After that I was testing every two days and each day I didn't get a BFP I was destroying myself. Chris and I decided that we will HPT but it will be either Sunday night (the 17th) or Monday morning before we head to the center for our beta. We want to be together when we find out the news and that's the only way to do it.

I am so excited and hopeful for a BFP this cycle!

Suzi

October 6th, 2004, 08:58 PM

Ana, you are in my prayers tonight (same as all the last few weeks!). I hope everything goes great tomorrow! :aok:

Bev

October 6th, 2004, 09:23 PM

Suzi! I'm so pleased for you. :) I was thinking about you today and hoping everything went well. I've been praying for you and Ana and some other gals on my molar pg board to get pregnant soon; we've all been through enough.

Despite my numbers I am positive that if the clinic will do IVF for me that we'll be successful. I need to keep thinking that. I can't wait to hear your news!

Ana, I'll be thinking of you tomorrow too! Good luck. :)

BrenS

October 6th, 2004, 11:20 PM

well lookie here... we have a newbie..and TWO momma's. :lol: I had no internet access for 3 days.. but man have I been thinking about you all.

Suzi... I can SO believe all 3 made it and looked great... That's wonderful news!!!

Ana!!! Your first and hopefully last retreival... I'm glad it went well and wasn't too bad.. and 3 is a GREAT number.. Don't worry about the progesterone not doing it's thing.. if you're that worried about it, call the RE and request a progesterone test to make sure you're getting enough.

Beverly.. Yanno I don't think those numbers mean anything at all... they can change any minute and lord knows if you drink a Dr. Pepper last tuesday at 8:31am, it'll be higher. It's just so rediculas that the clinics can play around with out hearts over a stinkin' number.

As for me.... well no news is good news, right?

Yeah... :roll: Dr. was suppose to call on Friday. No results.

Monday... he wasn't there.. results were there... Nurse said he'd called me on Tuesday.

Yesterday rolls around... nurse called.. said the doc would call me last night or this morning..no call. I called her this afternoon and she said ... "he's calling a special meeting with all of the other docs to sit and review your file.. he wants more opinions as to what approach to take. Your lining was measuring a 22 cycle day maturity.. when we were hoping for 23 or more... he'll call you tomorrow at some point to go over what they talked about"

Yeah.... I'm gonna sit and wait for THAT phone call. (insert huge eye roll here)

On top of all this.. I have a HORRIBLE HORRIBLE snot oozing, sneezing, coughing, can't talk or breathe head cold. I'm a vision of lovely-ness I'm sure.:sick:

Suzi

October 6th, 2004, 11:46 PM

Thanks, guys! I need to figure out how to contain my excitement or the next 11 days will be rough... :biggrin:

Beverly: I think you have the right idea. I'll tell you what my center told me: you can do CD3s EVERY cycle for a year and just ONE off result indicates the possibility of perimenopause. When we were talking about my poor response, we had conversations about that because of my age - and that we just didn't ever catch the elevated number on either of the CD3s we did. My point - I was able to conceive Julia (and her twin), I conceived an ectopic, and I am doing it AGAIN. :nod:

Brenda: Dang, chick...you can't catch a break ANYWHERE! I'm sorry you aren't getting answers from your center - it surely seems to me that they might learn a thing or two about how to treat their patients (as in attending to their emotional state as well as physical). Making you wait all this time is really quite obnoxious. Sorry you are hanging...

And geez, a cold! I hope you feel better soon - get some rest (as if) and make hubby take care of you! :nod: :hug99:

Suzi

October 7th, 2004, 10:31 AM

Ana, I am thinking of you and sending all kinds of GREAT PRAYERS your way! :hug99: And CONGRATULATIONS!!! No matter the time, you are a MOMMA of TRIPLETS today!! :yippee:

Goo

October 7th, 2004, 12:01 PM

Please send some extra prayers this way if you remember!

Suzi~I was thinking of you and sending you all my best yesterday. . .and it worked! :yippee: :awink:
I never test early exactely for the reason you stated. . .you know, tearing yourself apart? Well, with my first IVF ectopic, I had gotten AF on the day of my beta test and assumed it was all over and left work before the clinic called me at work with the results. I promptly opened a bottle of wine and cried on the phone to some of my friends. It didn't dawn on me until I was quite tipsy that I should check my messages at work only to find out that I did have some numbers, albiet low. For the next few weeks of testing (before being able to detect the ectopic via U/S) and seeing my numbers rise, I was so angry at myself for have jumped the gun and given up before I should have. So, I wait until the bitter end before I test. Even during a natural cycle I waited until the day that AF should have arrived. I like to hold off my depression as long as possible. :awink: Maybe the next time for me will be happiness instead. I wish you all the best during the next 11 days. :bighug:

Ana~:crossfing Thinking of you today.

Bev~I also had one off result for one of my CD3s, but the rest were great. . .even extraordinary (for my age that is). I also got pregnant naturally in June. . .Keep your confidence level high and it will do wonders. The power of the mind is really amazing.

Brenda~I am still completely shocked! This is :badwords: ! I'm so, sorry that you have to go through this but it also is unacceptable for your clinic to treat a patient like this. . .and Brigham & Women's????? :nono:

I was out with a friend of mine last night who is now on her 7th IVF like myself. She is 45 years old. Her Dr. is basically telling her that he does not see a reason for her to stop, unless of course, she does not want to continue. Her last failed cycle produced 9 follicles, 8 embroyos, and transfer of 3 8-celled embryos. She also told me about her co-worker who had her second child at 48 yrs. old. Difficult maybe, but not impossible. . . .and that's exactely the way I have to think.

Still on the BCP. :tantrum: I meditated and then took an hour long hike in the woods with my dog this morning. Let's see how long my serentity lasts today. :devil:

Kimberly

Ana975

October 7th, 2004, 04:53 PM

Hey guys! I'm back. We transferred two embryos, the third didn't make it. They were 8-cell and 5-cell. I had them give me a copy of their picture so Justin could see (he had to work). It's going to be a long two weeks....

Suzi

October 7th, 2004, 05:00 PM

It IS a long two weeks but we can do it together! Don't be surprised if you get a little crampy as time passes. For me I was fine right afterwards but got crampy yesterday afternoon until mid-morning today. Nothing to worry about, that's all.

CONGRATULATIONS!!! Now take it easy - you deserve it!

Goo

October 7th, 2004, 05:55 PM

Congratulations Ana! :clap: Relax and visualize implantation thoughts. I wish you all the best. :bighug:

Kimberly

AngCTRealtor

October 7th, 2004, 07:29 PM

Hi ladies,

I guess it is time for me to delurk. DH and I are now on the road to IVF. I have PCOS and his count fluctuates, so we have had enough of the IUI's and the disappointments and are now proceeding with IVF starting sometie in November. We saw the RE today and went over protocol and consent forms. I will be part of a research project for high risk OHSS, due to the PCOS, so most of my meds will be covered. The rest we are paying out of pocket. They are using 2 different protocols. I am not sure which one I am in yet. But one they will use HCG to trigger and the other Lupron. I started BCP today so I should start AF in about 22 days or so. I kept counting my calendar today over and over and it looks like we would find out around Thanksgiving time. I am so scared and nervous. I am most scared about the retrieval even though everone assures me I will feel no pain. Then I think what if I don't wake up. I know I know, too much thinking. Then I try not to get too excited because what if it doesn't work. We are only transferring 2 and freezing the rest. The RE says no more than 2 due to my age. I am 28.
So I guess that is all for now. I can't wait to get to know you all better and follow your journeys also.

I will be thinking especially sticky thoughts for Ana and Suzi!

Angela

BrenS

October 7th, 2004, 09:24 PM

Hi Angela.. welcome :)

I guess we're on to round 5.... I'm a bit disappointed that the ONLY change they're making is adding baby aspirin. Will still take estrace 4mg per day... they are upping the progesterone to 75mg instead of 50.. but other than that.. no change.

I also seem to think I'm clinically depressed.. won't go into details about that.. let's just say my good days are few and far these days.

Suzi

October 7th, 2004, 11:03 PM

Brenda, I can just imagine. :hug99: You have been through a lot these last months, have you thought about contacting a counselor who is experienced in fertility issues? I looked into it after our ectopic earlier this year and you can find one through the Resolve network (you probably already kow that). It is SO hard to deal with all this emotional baggage of IF...it might really help to talk to someone who understands the intricacies of IF. Maybe B&Y can refer you to someone?

As for your next cycle, did you question the direction of your next cycle? Will your RE have a consult with you to discuss your options and WHY they are only adding baby aspirin (my center does baby aspirin as a matter of course on all IVFs)? And your progesterone...do you do PIO IM shots? The dosage sounds like progesterone suppositories. It seems that your RE should involve you in your treatment rather than just TELL you what they are going to do. I don't mean to suggest anything here but have you thought about changing centers? DO you feel you need an RE who might be a little more aggressive?

:dunno: Just trying to get some thought going from an outside party... Hope it helps more than annoys. :nod:

Suzi

October 7th, 2004, 11:10 PM

Angela, WELCOME!! We are happy to have you join us and I hope that your stay here is short and sweet!

Retrievals are not too bad - as long as you get good drugs. I will be the odd one out and tell you that my first IVF I was NOT out before they started and it was AWFUL! :jawdrop: I made my RE PROMISE me that I would not remember the next one before I even started the second cycle! :lol: But really, don't sweat the anesthesia - it's not that bad (and you WILL wake up!).

Glad to have you here...make sure you ask any questions you may have! It's an awful lot to learn and most likely you'll learn more here than from your RE! :lol: We are full of tips and tricks and happy to pass them on! Good luck!

Ana975

October 7th, 2004, 11:16 PM

Hi Angela! I'm glad you stopped lurking and finally "came out"! I wish you all the best. It actually wasn't as bad as I thought it would be but maybe it was because I had done the injectibles before already. The retrieval wasn't bad at all. I was scared about it myself and thought the same things and I don't remember a thing from it.

Brenda, there's probably a ton of places in Boston you can go to, if you want another opinion. I go to New England Medical Center. If you need their info, I'll be more than happy to PM you. I'm very happy there. The whole staff is great. I think the only bad thing about getting pg is that I won't see those ladies anymore.

Suzi, how are you feeling?

Bev

October 8th, 2004, 07:11 AM

Couldn't get on yesterday. Ana I am so pleased and excited! I was thinking about you yesterday! :) Brenda I'm so sorry the Doc's aren't keeping you in the loop. :hug99: Angela, welcome! :wavey: Suzi and Kim, I think you're right, attitude is the main thing. Suzi I'm glad to hear you're doing all right. The next 10 days will be the longest in your life! (you too Ana!) Kim, I hope things work out this cycle.

Goo

October 8th, 2004, 09:36 AM

Welcome Angela~:welcome: The retrievals are a cinch. :awink: Seriously, I think Suzi is the only person I've heard of who wasn't out during the procedure. I'm typically under for no more than 15 minutes and then I go home and enjoy the chance to sleep and watch TV all day. There can be some cramping, but taking Tylenol usually helps. Like I say to all the new ladies, I hope your stay here is short and sweet.

Brenda~There's no gentle way to say it, so I just have to say that what we're going through :badwords: SUCKS! Why would you not be depressed? Of course, let's not forget that we're not just dealing with the emotional rollercoaster of Infertility but also the side effects of all the drugs we're taking. And with your situation, you've been dealing with a clinic that is not making things easy for you. As with Suzi, I had a really rough time after my first ectopic. I knew right away that I went from being sad to being depressed. I didn't want to get up in the morning, loss my appetite, etc. I sought help. Ali Domar's Mind/Body Program is right here in Boston and you can sign up for them by contacting Boston IVF. I believe it was a 10 week program. You meet other women going through the same thing and really learn alternative ways of coping. Also, your partner attends for 3 of the sessions. As you know, I went on to have yet another ectopic, but as sad as I was about it, I got through because of all the coping skills I had learned in the Mind/Body program. Definitely PM me if you have any additional questions about that. :justahug:

Suzi & Ana~Sticky vibes!!!!!!!

Kimberly

sarahgrace

October 8th, 2004, 09:52 AM

Hi Ladies,
I have been lurking for awhile. I just wanted to wish all of you the best. I have been down the IF road, 2 IUI's, and 1 successful IVF. It is such a hard road to go down, I commend you all for having the strength and courage to be on the treatment path. I know how hard it is to continue on with your daily life; when your daily life is holding your breath from one cycle to the next.So good luck to you all, I will keep you in my prayer's and if I can be of help in any way just let me know. I know that I appreciated talking to people that had been in my shoes. Some things are hard to understand if you haven't been there.Keepin my finger's crossed for everybody!!!!!!!!!!!!
Sarah

BrenS

October 8th, 2004, 11:49 AM

Hi all.. thanks for the words of wisdom..

Suzi.. B&W actually has 2 counsellors on staff in the Reproductive unit.. and they have a woman Dr who specializes in Reproductive Psychiatry Care for people who need more than someone to talk to.

I'm SOO not into the round circle type groups who sit around and discuss their problems with each other. I have to know someone awfully well before I feel comfortable telling all... My own MOTHER I don't feel comfortable telling... so if the only way I can get treatment is to spill my guts in front of a ton of women... I just won't go.

Ana, does NEMC take overweight women? I wonder if they would answer some questions if I emailed and asked. The only reason I go to Brigham is because they'll take me at my weight or higher.. I just don't have a year or two to lose 100 pounds . My husband's job is ending in April (or before).. and I don't know what kind of health insurance we'll have assuming he finds a new job right away. Financially we'll be fine until he finds something... but not financially secure enough to pay for any treatment.

Kimberly.. I think my husband is blaming all of the emotional issues and depression on the drugs. I don't think the drugs would make me have 7 out of 8 symptoms for clinical depression. :lol: I really wish I could do acupuncture again... I felt soooo much better when doing it.. but we just can't afford it and our insurance doesn't cover it at all.

Ana975

October 8th, 2004, 02:34 PM

Brenda, they took me (I'm about 80 lbs overweight :blush: ) so I'm sure they would take you too. They never even made me feel bad about it. My doctor suggested that I try to lose weight because it may help but she knew how difficult it was to lose it because I had PCOS. She only mentioned that the first time we met and never brought it up again and I've been going there for almost a year and a half. I'll PM you their number in case you want to talk to them. I don't think it would hurt you either way. They either agree with the course of treatment your center is doing or they suggest something else and then you'll probably be even more confused :lol: It's worth a shot, right?

Bev

October 12th, 2004, 07:33 PM

Hellooooooo! How is everyone feeling??

AngCTRealtor

October 12th, 2004, 07:58 PM

Thank you everyone for the welcome!!!

How are you, Suzi and Ana? When is your test days? I have an IVF questions....After the transfer, how many days after is the PG test? 10?14?

Suzi

October 12th, 2004, 09:08 PM

I keep thinking I need to check in but there's nothing to say...I am feeling like I am on PIO shots. Since progesterone mimics the initial symptoms of PGY, this is the most cruel phase of IVF - the waiting with POSSIBLE PGY symptoms. My BBS are sore, I am tired, I have to pee in the middle of the night (and I NEVER get up in the middle of the night - NEVER). Having been through an ectopic, I can honestly say that I couldn't even breathe easy with a BFP until we have an u/s.

My beta is on Monday. I have been resolute that I will not test early because I did with the ectopic and it just turned into prolonged misery until I had the beta. That being said, today I started faltering in my steadfast decision not to HPT until Sunday night when I get home from KC. Had I thought about it when I was at the store, I would've bought HPTs today and POAS. And I still have three more days to get through before I leave for the weekend.

Angela, most centers do beta tests on different days. My center does beta testing as early as possible, most don't do it as early. The first possible day to get a 100% accurate beta is 15 days after trigger. In a normal cycle, that is only 13 days after ovulation or two days before you miss AF. Beta blood hCGs are much more accurate than HPTs, especially that early. Hope that helps!

Bev

October 12th, 2004, 09:29 PM

Hey Suzi! I've still got everything crossed for you! Good luck on Monday. :)

Goo

October 13th, 2004, 01:50 PM

Angela~My center does Beta tests 11 days after the transfer.

Suzi~:bighug: Hang in there girl. You're almost there. Sending lots of positive thoughts your way. :pray:

Ana~I hope things are going well. :up:

Well it's official. I start the Lupron this Saturday. If things go right :crossfing
(I welcome all positive thoughts), I could be going in for a retrieval Halloween Day or the day before. :yippee: I'm starting to feel like I'm catching something so I'm going to make it a priority to knock this out of my system before Saturday.

Kimberly

Suzi

October 13th, 2004, 05:26 PM

Kimberly, that's GREAT!! It's gonna be here before you know it! :nod:

Ana, how are you doing?? Hope you're hanging in there...

Not much to report today - those symptoms I *thought* had went away, haven't had to get up to pee in the middle of the night for two nights now. I feel PG symptoms otherwise - sore BBS, tired, headachy, ravenous, crampy - but every one of those things can be attributed to the PIO shots. :rolleyes: I am trying REALLY hard to stick to no HPTs because they are EVIL!!! But every time I have to go to the store, I think about picking up HPTs. So far, I have been able to stay in control of myself and not buy the :devil: HPTs.

Maybe I just need to stay out of the store... :dunno:

AngCTRealtor

October 13th, 2004, 05:53 PM

Suzi, I can relate with you on those EVIL EVIL HPTS. I hate them so much and I always say I will never buy one again and I always break down and do. I know once I am closer to finding out I will most likely breakdown.

Kim~ Good luck! Seven is a good number! I am pretty sure Brooke Shields got PG on her seventh IVF attempt. All positive thoughts to you! Feel better too.

Bev

October 13th, 2004, 08:34 PM

Suzi - Stay out of the stores!

Kimberly - Great news! I hope you get a Hallowe'en treat. :jackolant

I'm still waiting for AF to show so i can schedule the HSG and a Monash (I think) s/a for DH.

BrenS

October 13th, 2004, 10:18 PM

Kimberly, looks like we're pretty close together. I start Lupron tomorrow morning.
SO not looking forward to the headaches or feeling spacey... especially when I've been sick with a cold for going on 2 weeks.

Ana975

October 14th, 2004, 08:21 AM

Kim - 7 is definately a lucky number! Good luck!

Angela - When are you starting?

Suzi - Not to much longer!

Brenda - What's a Monash s/a?

Beverly - Good luck!

As for me, I'm hanging in there. On Tuesday, I had weird cramping. It sorta felt like AF but it was only on my right side and would radiate down my leg. Then yesterday, for a good part of the day, it felt like AF was on her way, but then it stops and I feel nothing. I'm not peeing anymore than I used to, I don't think, but it seems like my bladder just can't hold it anymore. When I have to go, I better run. BBs are still really tender and I've been tired, but I'm always tired so I don't think to much of that. So I don't know. I guess there's not much else to say, except wait for Tuesday. I swear this has been the longest week of my life :lol:

Suzi

October 14th, 2004, 10:06 AM

Ana... :lol: PIO is cruel, isn't it?? Hang in there...not too much longer before you find out if your symptoms are for real or just the PIO talking. :nod: :bighug:

Goo

October 14th, 2004, 05:28 PM

Brooke Shields got PG on her seventh IVF attempt.
Angela~You're absolutely right! And I have the People Magazine with her picture on the cover on my coffee table to prove it! Really though, it's funny you mention that because I was thinking the same exact thing. And I feel quite close to Brooke, not just because I'm a wanna be diva and movie star, but also because we're the same age. . .I followed her career. We pretty much grew up together! :supergrin

Suzi & Ang~I have to do everything I can to avoid using an HPT. :crazy: A little depressing perhaps, but the best way I know to avoid using an HPT is telling myself that I'd rather be hopeful than confused or sad by an HPT reading. So, I stay as hopeful as I can until Beta day.

Kimberly, looks like we're pretty close together. I start Lupron tomorrow morning.

Bren~Awesome! :up: I was hoping I'd have a cycle buddy. :hug99:

Beverly~I've had two HSGs (if you have any questions).

I can't believe I'm actually looking forward to having needles stuck in me day and night. Life is funny. :silly:

Kimberly

Bev

October 14th, 2004, 07:13 PM

Ana I'm not sure what that s/a is, except it is some special fancy one that costs $250 and is apparently much better than regular ones. I think that's what he called it. Whatever, you just want my money, I know it. :) I wish we could get the show on the road already.

AngCTRealtor

October 14th, 2004, 09:39 PM

Kim~ I have that People Magazine also of her, so I knew I was pretty sure of that number. Hmmm... Maybe it's a good sign especially since there was 2 of us thinking the same thing. I've always loved Brooke myself, my absolute favorites, I am sure you can guess, is the Blue Lagoon. I admire you for your HPT will power. You are so right about still having the hope! But I am one of those people who has to know and if I don't I sware I will lose my mind.

Ana~ The RE has me on BCP for 21 days and then as soon as AF comes I start Follistim, and Lupron before the AF. The way I calculated AF should come towards the last week of Oct or the first week of Nov. I can not wait to get this going. I am trying not to get obssessed. Tue will be here soon!

Suzi

October 15th, 2004, 10:01 PM

From my journal:

We gave in to the pressure and tested. It was BFN. I am....hmmm...don't really know what I am. Disappointed doesn't quite get it. But I am not crying over it. I know we will do it again (when we can scrape together the cash - so much for my birthday and Christmas). I guess I am just getting really tired of all the needles and poking/prodding and surgeries.

This really sucks. That kinda sums it all up.

Bev

October 16th, 2004, 09:17 AM

I think it's too early Suzi. It can't be a BFN. :mad: It's not fair. It ain't over until the :bat: flies in. I'm still feeling positive. :hug99:

Ana975

October 16th, 2004, 10:50 AM

Suzi, maybe it's too early. Don't give up yet :bighug:

BrenS

October 16th, 2004, 03:17 PM

Most definately too early. No giving up just yet.

What about you, Ana? Peein' on Sticks yet?

Suzi

October 17th, 2004, 06:34 PM

Excerpted from my journal:

Thanks so much for your thoughts and prayers - I sure do appreciate them! I am not holding out much hope - I tested with an FRE yesterday and that was only one day early - at which the FRE is 93% accurate. Now, I will say that I am NOT completely out of it since I HAVE been known to be a one-percenter. And with a 7% chance that I can get a BFP, I have to consider that possibility. Either way, I am not too upset by this...heck, tears won't get me anything! If it's a BFN (for which I am FULLY prepared), we go back to the drawing board and do it again. Am I getting tired of needles, surgeries, and endless waiting...ABSOLUTELY. Will I do it again...DEFINITELY. I want a sibling for Julia and until we have one - however we have to do it - I will not stop trying. We just have to come up with the money for drugs and retreivals. :rolleyes:

Beta is tomorrow and I will let everyone know the results when I get them. Like I said, I am not holding out much hope after the BFN HPT but stranger things have happened. Honestly, I am not devastated by the BFN...maybe once you get your first cycle that doesn't result in an ongoing PGY you are kinda numb to it any more. Kimberly, Brenda...any thoughts on that?? Maybe I'm just strange that way. :dunno: I will take the continued prayers though, you never know! :biggrin:

Ana975

October 17th, 2004, 10:35 PM

What about you, Ana? Peein' on Sticks yet? I caved this morning too and got a :bfn: Justin was upset that I tested but it was all I could think about this morning. Surprisingly, I wasn't too devastated. I guess because AF still isn't here. Part of me is still hoping, but I really don't think this is it. I think I feel AF coming. I guess I'll be trying this again with you Suzi.

Goo

October 18th, 2004, 10:33 AM

Suzi & Ana~I was checking in to wish you both the best today and. . . .:sadhug:, I hope the HPT was wrong for the both of you.

Honestly, I am not devastated by the BFN...maybe once you get your first cycle that doesn't result in an ongoing PGY you are kinda numb to it any more. Kimberly, Brenda...any thoughts on that??

I definitely think that you are handling this much better than I did at this same point in my IVF sob story. I had a really difficult time with each failed IVF. But, the fact of the matter is that these days, I'm definitely much better able to cope with a negative. My 3rd failed cycle was the ectopic and it just deveastated me. :bawl: But with my 4th and 5th failed cycles, although I was sad at the initial negative result, my ability to get back up on my feet and be determined to give it a go again, got much easier and much quicker. I jumped back into quite a bit of a depression after the 6th failed cycle because I thought that my insurance would not cover another one and they would tell me that there was nothing they could do for me. In the interim before I was approved however, I went on this crazy, mad :crazy: determined quest that I was going to get pregnant on my own. . .and lo' and behold I did. My second ectopic, although really sad, wasn't as bad. I think mainly because DH and I got pregnant on our own but also because at that point, I had an approved IVF#7 waiting in the wings. I'm not even sure where I'm at emotionally right now. I guess I'm almost feeling like if this IVF doesn't work out, DH and I still both have what it takes to make a bambino. :awink: Also, I have to agree with you on the fact that I'm just getting really tired of all the drugs and needles and I definitely realize that I'm much happier and yet feel the same conviction that it will work out, whether I'm doing the IVF or trying really hard with diet, acupuncture, exercise, yoga fertility postures, and all that other crunchy, granola natural stuff. From the 1st day I went to see a Dr. until now, I am still in the unexplained category, still with Drs scratching their heads and telling me that I'm simply having really bad luck. :tear: I guess I could have made this shorter by saying that I think my pain hasn't gotten easier, I don't feel less pain after a negative, it's just that my coping mechanisms are much, much stronger. I was watching a Today show segment this morning that was talking about how people who've recovered from cancer in their lives have less depression than other people their age. Obviously, it's because they've suffered to a point where they can now recognize all the things that they have to be thankful. . .I guess it's kind of the same with me and my so called "infertility".

P.S. Today was my first day of Stims. . ..Gonal F in the AM, Repronex in the PM. Back on the rollercoaster ride of mood swings. :silly:

Kimberly

Ana975

October 18th, 2004, 11:34 AM

Kim, I admire you. I think you are so strong for doing this over and over. I don't know if I'd have the strength to do this 7 times.

Suzi, I'm really praying for you today. I hope you hear some good news soon.

Well, I thought I was doing okay and coping pretty well with my BFN yesterday. Then I went to bed and was praying and thanking God for everything I have and then had a huge meltdown because the only thing I want seems impossible. I tried bargaining with him a little. We'll see what he thinks about that :lol: I'm just so glad that Justin wasn't home last night because I would hate for him to see me like that and worry.

BrenS

October 18th, 2004, 04:02 PM

Oh Ana... I SO know how you feel right now.. And Suzi too.. I guess after my first BFN with IVF, I still had hope that the next cycle would work.. 50% chance, right?
Heck even going into my 5th cycle, I have some hope. Not much.. but some.

Strangely... I follow a TON of IVF blogs and journals.. and I swear this was the worst month for BFN's. I haven't seen even 1 positive yet. Maybe it's the time of year??? Has to be.

I think that in December.. we're ALL gonna get positives.

Suzi

October 18th, 2004, 04:58 PM

From my journal:

Sorry you all were still so hopeful - I knew this wasn't going anywhere! Actually, my hCG level is 11 and TECHNICALLY anything higher than 5 is positive - so TECHNICALLY I am PG (yet again). But 11 at this stage of the game is way too low and this PGY will not make it.

Thanks to everyone for the prayers and support... Now it's back to the drawing board to figure out where another $6000 comes from to try again. I never thought I'd spend so much money just to have a baby. Heck...maybe Julia is destined to be an only child. But I just can't bear the thought of how lonely that will be for her for the rest of her life.

Bev

October 18th, 2004, 07:18 PM

:hug99: for everyone. :blue:

Ana975

October 18th, 2004, 08:17 PM

Suzi, I'm so so sorry :bighug:

AF is here. She started a little while ago :(

Suzi

October 18th, 2004, 09:08 PM

:doh: Oh Ana, I am SORRY!! What a ROTTEN week we are having!! :dunno:

AngCTRealtor

October 18th, 2004, 09:44 PM

Oh Ana, I am so sorry.

Suzi, I am sorry too. Do you have to go on for another Beta? Is there any hope?

I wish I had more words of wisdom and comfort but all I can say is keep your chins up and it will happen. Don't give up!

I am so bummed out for the both of you. I have to admit I am scared more now than ever.

Suzi

October 19th, 2004, 12:17 AM

Angela, don't be scared...be realistic. I am an IVF best case scenario - our infertility is nothing more than low sperm count. At best, my chance of getting a positive IVF cycle is about 45% (which is actually a BETTER chance per cycle than people who have NO fertility troubles). Just make sure you arm yourself with quality information and realistic expectations. I am not trying to burst your bubble...IVF works. My baby is proof of that. Like the old addage: hope for the best, prepare for the worst.

I do have to go for another beta on Wed. just to make sure...but it is already sure.

BrenS

October 19th, 2004, 12:19 AM

I'm sorry guys. :(

Goo

October 19th, 2004, 03:30 PM

Suzi & Ana~ I'm so sorry. :sadhug: :blue:

I haven't seen even 1 positive yet. Maybe it's the time of year??? Has to be.

Mmmm, interesting. . .very interesting. :grr:

Kimberly

Bev

October 19th, 2004, 08:50 PM

Oh Ana and Suzi. :blue: I'm so sorry. :hug99:

Suzi

October 20th, 2004, 05:14 PM

From my journal:

Today's beta came back at 7 so I am STILL PG but it is falling as expected. Actually, the reading of 7 is a good thing because my insurance will pay for the test since I am PG. :rolleyes: Have I mentioned lately how much I HATE insurance companies?? Anyway, I am done with the progesterone ( :yippee: ) and AF will show soon.

Since we are going to try to cycle again so soon, I will start BCPs for my next IVF cycle a week after AF shows (so in about a week!). My tentative schedule is:

Lupron Nov 23/24
Stims start Nov 25/26
First progress check Dec 1
Retrieval Dec 7
Transfer Dec 10
Beta Dec 21
Oy - that is close to Christmas... Oh well, if we are going to do it, we may as well take advantage of the tax break, right? :dunno: :disbelief Who knows...maybe we'll get a Christmas blessing, right??!
Now to just figure out how to pay for it...

Suzi

October 20th, 2004, 05:19 PM

By the way Kimberly, how you doin'???

Angela, I think you are next - what is your tentative date to start stims?

Brenda, how 'bout you - how are you doing?? Did you ever get that craziness straightened out with your center?

Geez, I guess we're all getting that last IVF in before the end of the year... :lol:

Goo

October 20th, 2004, 06:09 PM

Since we are going to try to cycle again so soon, I will start BCPs for my next IVF cycle a week after AF shows (so in about a week!)

Suzi~Wow! That's great! That's fast! I'm so happy that you're in such a positive place. :hug99: This attitude is only going to work in your favor. :cool:

I'm doing well. . .I think. I guess it's the Lupron that's causing me these headaches but I try my best to ignore them. My thighs are hurting a bit from the shots. Where do you usually inject? Today is the last day with the Lupron combo (Lupron/Gonal F in AM and Lupron/Repronex in PM). Tomorrow it's just Gonal F in AM and Repronex in PM. My first U/S & BW is scheduled for this Sunday. I've thought a lot about this in the last few days and I've decided to continue to use herbs while taking the stims. I'm guessing that that my "western" Dr. will not agree with this but hear me out. I've been doing an awful lot of reading on acupuncture/herbs & IVF and there are a lot of case studies proving that certain herbs in conjuction with IVF do NOT hurt and instead help to keep the body in good balance & harmony. This herbal mixture I am taking is very mild and does not cause any conflicts with the IVF drugs. I truly believe that these herbal remedies work and I also believe that the effects of the 6 IVFs I've done have absolutely caused some disharmony within my body. Anyway, additionally, there are a lot of amazing case studies regarding sperm count and dietary changes and other supplements (not all Asian herbs) that can be taken, which could dramatically increase sperm counts in men. I can give you more information if you're interested.

Ana~How are you???

Angela~Aren't you my cycle buddy? :biggrin: How are you doing?

Kimberly

Suzi

October 20th, 2004, 08:54 PM

My thighs are hurting a bit from the shots. Where do you usually inject?
Oh geez...you do the thighs?? I did that exactly ONCE and never did it again...IT HURT! (it was an IM shot though)! In the AM I shoot Lupron and Gonal-F seperately in the lower belly, my daily PM Repronex is an IM shot in the hip. The belly shots are a non-event, I couldn't imagine doing them in the thigh every day!! :nono:

AngCTRealtor

October 20th, 2004, 10:18 PM

Hi All!

My last day of BCP is Oct 27 and that same day I have a 3 hour teaching class at the RE's. My best friend is coming with me to learn how to do the Progesterone oil injection in my hip area. She and Ryan (my DH) will be doing it. I can not wait to be done with this BCP, I am a wreck and can't stop eating. I came down with Food poisoning last nite and into today. I bought frozen shrimp scampi and cooked it up with linguini. It was yummy but I got so sick. I am just glad that it happenned now instead of later. I am finally feeling like myself again.

The nurse said I should get AF a few days after my last pill so I am thinking she should be here around the 29 to Nov 1 and the nurse also said I will probably have a day 10/12 day retrieval since I am a good responder. So anywhere from Nov 10 - 12 and I will know right around Thanksgiving. Hopefully we can all get Holiday blessings. I thought I would start Lupron soon, but she never mentioned it to me, maybe I should call and make sure because isn't it typical to start that 5 or 7 days before AF comes and that is coming up for me.

I haven't done the injections in over a year now. Wow, time has flown by. I can't believe we are really doing IVF. Down deep I kinda knew that we probably need to to get PG.

Anyway enough rambling, time to get back to that baseball game. Go Red Sox!

Take care Suzi, Brenda, Kim, Ana, and Beverly

Suzi

October 20th, 2004, 10:46 PM

Angela, it depends what kind of cycle you are doing. If you are doing a long stim protocol using Lupron, then you should start Lupron shots 5 days before your last BCP. If you are doing a flare protocol, you start Lupron on CD2 and then Gonal-F/Follistim is started on CD3.

Egads - sorry to hear about the food poisoning. How miserable!

Bev

October 21st, 2004, 07:22 AM

Since we are going to try to cycle again so soon, I will start BCPs for my next IVF cycle a week after AF shows (so in about a week!). My tentative schedule is:

Lupron Nov 23/24
Stims start Nov 25/26
First progress check Dec 1
Retrieval Dec 7
Transfer Dec 10
Beta Dec 21
HOLD ON!! What's this about starting BCP a week after AF?? Is that possible? I am expecting AF any time now and have scheduled my HSG and DH's S/A on Nov 1. My Doc should be the one doing the HSG, so I will be able to discuss with him about doing Lupron Flare etc. I will have to check out again the difference between the 2 you mentioned, but I remember I was thinking Lupron Flare would be for me, and Suzi agreed.

I am thinking depending when AF comes, I won't be able to start BCP right away because I don't know if they will do IVF yet. If I have to wait until my November AF, I don't think they'll do anything because they don't do transfers from Dec 20 or so to Jan 3 or so. (Stupid staff wanting vacations! :mad: ) This whole process is taking too fooking long!! I think I'm going to make my twin sister do the blood work, in case this guy won't let me use my own eggs. I'll get her to come here for a couple of weeks and give me hers. ;)

Anyway, can you explain about starting BCP a week after AF rather than the first Sunday? Or is that the first Sunday?

Good luck to everyone else! Ana, I hope you can start again soon. :) Kim good luck with your shots, and Ang I hope your class goes all right. :) Where's Jennifer? What's going on with you?

Suzi

October 21st, 2004, 09:15 AM

Beverly, my center does IVFs in GROUP CYCLES rather than individual women. There are five cycles in a year, they do about 40 women in each cycle and all IVFs for a given cycle have their retreivals targeted for a two week time-frame. This cycle is Dec 6-20. Since they do it this way, they use BCPs to get you to this time-frame. I have been on BCPs for as short as 23 days, another time I was on them for 38 straight days. So BCPs do not start on Sunday, they start one week after AF shows - no matter what day that might be. :nod:

Ana975

October 21st, 2004, 09:40 AM

Wow, sounds like things are getting really busy in here!

What's Repronex? I didn't take that this last IVF, should I have been? I've decided to give myself a break the next couple of months so I won't be joining you guys again until January. I just need some "me" time with no needles or poking or prodding and I need to lose some weight. I've put on 50 lbs since starting all this and I want to get back to where I was. So I wish all you girls the best. I'll definately be checking in to see how you are all doing.

Goo

October 21st, 2004, 03:05 PM

In the AM I shoot Lupron and Gonal-F seperately in the lower belly, my daily PM Repronex is an IM shot in the hip. The belly shots are a non-event, I couldn't imagine doing them in the thigh every day!!

Suzi~I know. . .I'm crazy right? :silly: First off, I can't even muster the courage to give myself the shots and I have my husband do it AM & PM. I think I do it in the thigh because it's easy for me to sit/lay down and turn my head away while DH gives the shot. However, it is starting to hurt when I walk. The same thing happened to me with my last IVF and because I was walking in so much pain, I had to come up with something. . .I told people that I had taken an intense class at the gym that caused a lot of muscle pain. :rolleyes: Of course the nurse told me I should inject in the stomach and I didn't because it scared me. Will I ever learn? :dunno: O.K.!!! Tonight is the night that I (with the help of DH of course) will inject in my stomach. :owow:

Bev~I actually typically start BCP the first day of AF. Of course, that could be anyday of the week. A friend of mine who goes to a clinic in NYC said that she requested being on BCP for a shorter amount of time (perhaps due to scheduling?) and the Dr. was fine with it, having her on it for only 7 days. My clinic usually has me on it for 21 days but it sounds like it just depends. . .:dunno:

Ang~Oh, I'm so sorry about your food poisoning. That just stinks. I guess you're just right behind me. I'm hoping for a Halloween retrieval. . . .I hope it's not too scary. :biggrin: Yes, I think I'm funny.

I just need some "me" time with no needles or poking or prodding

Ana~It's definitely good to take a break. I've taken a few breaks (some of them forced) and it's done wonders for my spirit and confidence. I wish you all the best during this time with the most important person in your life. . .yourself. :bighug:

Kimberly

Suzi

October 21st, 2004, 04:14 PM

Suzi~I know. . .I'm crazy right? :silly: O.K.!!! Tonight is the night that I (with the help of DH of course) will inject in my stomach. :owow:

You are SO gonna thank me!! :nod: Here's a hint....pinch the skin and tell DH to poke fast. I'd say about 70% of the time I never even feel the stick!! I SWEAR!! Chris does all my shots - really it's only so he feels involved since I could do them (and have) on my own. The most hilarous was when I did my own Repronex IM hip shot...all the while laughing hysterically while I was on the phone with my best friend! At one point I was laughing so hard I had to let go of the needle and just laugh and I had this syringe hanging out of my :booty: :rotflmao: Anyway, I ASSURE you the belly shots are better - they are for me anyway!!

I wish you all the best during this time with the most important person in your life. . .yourself. :bighug:

Ana, truer words have never been spoken. Make sure you take time for you. It's easy to get lost in all the procedures and needles and stress. A holiday break will do wonders - and we'll all be ready to cheer you on in January! :nod:

As for Repronex, it is basically the same as Gonal-F/Follistim but has an added agent to help follicles/eggs mature. As I am an "old-lady" my ovaries need the extra help!! :lol:

JuniperJen

October 21st, 2004, 07:42 PM

Hi Suzi, Ana, Kimberly, Angela, Brenda and Beverly! :wavey:

First, I want to give a big :hug1: to Ana and Suzi. I was so disappointed to read about your BFNs. You both have such great attitudes about it. I am impressed.

I have been lurking and learning from you all lately. I feel like there is so much I do not know about the IVF process. I am a little overwhelmed.
I am still on BCPs. I start Lupron one week from today. :eek: That is also the day of my IVF class at my RE. I am ready to get started.
I got one matter settled. I will be doing satellite monitoring because my RE is 4 hours away. I got that all arranged with a clinic that my RE works with regularly. That was a big load off my mind because I didn't want to be using ALL of my sick days driving to Little Rock. I will be going to a local clinic for my u/s and bloodwork. I will go to my RE for the retrieval and transfer.
I've been trying to prepare for IVF. I have now gone 3 days without any caffeine. That is huge for me. :lol: I am also trying to drink lots of water and am not taking any over-the-counter medication. Is there anything else I need to be doing?
I hope you are all doing well.

Jennifer

Suzi

October 21st, 2004, 10:00 PM

Jennifer - you have cut out the biggest things that can affect the outcome of your IVF. Caffeine is killer in an IVF cycle - I cut it out completely when we started doing IVFs in January of 2002 and haven't gone back to it since (a few sips of DH's soda here and there). Lemme tell you - if there EVER was a hard-core caffeine drinker it was me - I usually drank at LEAST a full pot of coffee EVERY day! I switched to decaf and never looked back - and never even noticed. Just keep thinking...it's all for a baby! And make SURE you drink PLENTY of water - 80oz minimum each day! Your veins will be MUCH easier to get blood from and less likely to collapse when you are being stuck every day or so. :nod:

:yippee: for getting all your satellite monitoring settled - I bet that's a load off your mind!

Thanks for the well-wishes - I appreciate it! As for being overwhelmed, ASK AWAY!! I can just about guarantee you that one of us here can answer any question you may have. And that at some point in time one of us ASKED the very same question! There is a LOT of information to soak up and usually one of us can explain in terms that make much more sense than the RE's explanation! :lol:

Good luck with your cycle, Jennifer! We are all praying for you!

BrenS

October 21st, 2004, 11:27 PM

Hi all..

Well I met with a reproductive psychiatrist today. This woman is so amazing. She use to be an RE, but she said she got too close to her patients and decided she'd be best used to help with the emotional side of things. I swear this woman finished my sentences and knew exactly how I feel. She talked alot about how to handle friends with babies or pregnant women, and how to handle my family issues with my mother and glenn's nosy mother who wants to know about every cycle. :lol: She asked me about 1000 questions.. then diagnosed me with clinical depression (formally).

she put me on a low dose of Zoloft and talked alot about how it's safe for pg women and safe for breastfeeding. she said that she just completed a study with women who took it while pregnant and they found that not only were there no side effects with the babies.. but the babies were MUCH happier and less problematic and generally healthier. They followed these babies thru grade school I guess.

she also said that women who suffer from depression before getting pregnant, are more likely to have PPD. I guess it makes sense. Oh and studies are showing that infertility is sometimes aided when the person is depressed.

Anyway..

I go for baselines on MONDAY.... and I have massive reconstructive surgery on my bottom lip (long story) that afternoon. I guess next week will be pretty rough.. especially since I won't be able to talk or eat solid food for 10 days. :lol: Who knows.. maybe I'll lose some weight too. :lol:

I'll probably be typing alot since I won't be able to talk much.. LOL

Suzi

October 22nd, 2004, 12:39 AM

Brenda, I am glad you are getting the lip surgery done - sounds like you will be much happier with it done. Sucks to be you for the next two weeks (LITERALLY....GET IT!!! :rotflmao: ), but maybe you can talk hubby into plenty of Starbuck's! :lol:

I am SOSOSOSOSOSO glad you talked to that doc!!! It sounds like she is JUST the person you needed to hook up with and I hope you'll be feeling better SOON! Wish I lived closer and I'd bring you some Starbucks and we could sit and talk (well, I can talk - you can TYPE!!) all day and commiserate our IF problems (and all other woes, of course!). Nothing like talking to someone who REALLY understands how you feel and validates it, now is there? That's EXACTLY what I am hoping for at my appointment TOMORROW!

Yes, I am going to see a social worker who was recommended to me by my center. She has experience with IF counseling and I hope that Chris and I can start to see eye to eye on a few issues that involve his family. LOOO-OOONG story but SIL is an awful, ugly person and MIL (by virtue of her NOT supporting me - AT ALL) is just as ugly. I have recently (last few weeks) come to the conclusion that I just don't like MIL, not GOING to like MIL - not ever - and I am good with that. Unfortunate because we used to get along fabulously before all this crap happened. Anyway, I have agreed to go with Chris so that we can figure out how to deal with all this IF emotional "fallout" without letting it fester away at our marriage. As of late, things have been a little tense between us and this can only help.

So Brenda, I am GLAD that you are meeting with this doctor. It is HARD to not let IF take over everything and keeping it in perspective is vital. Kudos to you for taking action to help your emotional well-being!! :aok:

BrenS

October 22nd, 2004, 12:02 PM

Brenda, I am glad you are getting the lip surgery done - sounds like you will be much happier with it done. Sucks to be you for the next two weeks (LITERALLY....GET IT!!! :rotflmao: ), but maybe you can talk hubby into plenty of Starbuck's! :lol:

Sucks to be my husband... I mean.. doesn't suck... :rotflmao: I won't be able to do THAT for quite a while. :rotflmao: Nevermind... I'm awful.

Goo

October 22nd, 2004, 12:24 PM

At one point I was laughing so hard I had to let go of the needle and just laugh and I had this syringe hanging out of my . . .

Suzi~I can not even imagine. Before each shot, I have to take a few deep breaths, DH has to say "sorry" a few times, then I usually stop him again just before he pludges, so that I can take one more deep breath. Then, while he's injecting, I turn my head and grimace as he says, "Almost done, almost done." Then I get a sympathy hug. It's quite dramatic. :grin: We did last night's Repronex and this AM's Gonal-F in the belly. Not too bad going in at all. But I have to say, it still feels tender around the area. This brings me to another question. . .since you're the expert (I should also be an expert but I think medical "speak" is like an alien language to me and I seem to not retain some important information). Anyway, I get so confused with subQ and IM and where to poke with which drugs. I asked at one point, and I don't think I got the specific answer I needed. . .basically, the answer was vague and it still seemed like in the end, it didn't matter. I usually inject both the Gonal F and Repronex in the thigh (now switching to the belly) and I usually do the HCG in the :booty: Is there a definitive answer as to if certains drugs need to be administered in certain areas? Or do you know if some areas better than others as far as absorption is concerned? Also, Suzi, I had been wondering what was going on with your PITA SIL and such. I'm sad to hear that MIL is being just as bad but it's great that you're taking action now, especially since it is having negative effects on your relationship with your husband. Good for you. :up:

Bren~Also, I'm so glad that you sought help. I went through a bout of depression in my early 20s and it only got so bad because I let it get out of hand--being depressed, but adding too much drinking, not eating, and not sleeping, and not connecting with loved ones to the mix. . . .that's why when I saw myself going downhill after the ectopic, I knew I had to do something. Regarding Zoloft. . .she said that she just completed a study with women who took it while pregnant and they found that not only were there no side effects with the babies.. but the babies were MUCH happier and less problematic and generally healthier. They followed these babies thru grade school I guess.

Very interesting. Again though, I'm glad you're taking action and getting the help you need. I wish you all the best with your lip surgery. The awesome Red Sox's wins made you smile I bet! :awink: :bighug:

Jennifer~I am also trying to drink lots of water and am not taking any over-the-counter medication. Is there anything else I need to be doing? I could probably write a book about this, but yes, first off, cut out the caffeine. I don't drink coffee (because I'm a natural spaz) but I had a hard time cutting out alcohol. DH works in the wine buisness so it was normal for us to have a glass or two with dinner every night. But! Cutting out alcohol (needless to mention not smoking right?) is beneficial as well. I've read many books that also mention cutting out dairy products, refined sugars and the like, as well as chocolate. I'm sure you have no need to get excessive about your diet and I only have because I've had so many IF issues and I'm older. In any case, the basics are exercise (walking is good, but don't start a major exercise regime if you've never exercised before), rest well, avoid caffeine, tobacco, alcohol, sodas, and sweetners, and studies have proven that acupuncture is very helpful for patients going through IVF procedures.

kimberly

Bev

October 22nd, 2004, 05:23 PM

Kim maybe you can remember this way: IM is Intra Muscular. So into the muscle, ie leg, butt. SubQ is subcutaneous, under the skin, like a Mantoux test for TB.

Goo

October 25th, 2004, 09:13 AM

IM is Intra Muscular. So into the muscle, ie leg, butt. SubQ is subcutaneous, under the skin,

Bev~I pretty much have that down, it's just I can't seem to remember which drugs/shots go in which area of the body. SubQ is under the skin yes, but does it matter if the medication is going into your muscle or into fat? I basically use the thigh (and belly, thanks to Suzi's suggestion), but how 'bout the back of the arm, around near the tricep? I always do the hcg in the rearend, but does it matter?

Whatever I'm doing, I guess it's pretty much O.K. I had my first U/S & BW of the cycle yesterday. There are already 2 12.5mm follicles on my right side and several smaller ones of both sides. Every cycle, I always have what I can only refer to as "runaway follies". I had to add a shot of cetritide last night to help the others catch up.

I hope you ladies are well.

Kimberly

Bev

October 25th, 2004, 07:27 PM

The way I figure you want to do IM where the body is "hard" and the subcutaneous where it is "soft" if that makes sense. Like subQ under the skin in your forearm is hard to do yourself, but if someone is doing it you can. I'll probably stick with my butt/hip and my belly. :)

Suzi

October 25th, 2004, 08:56 PM

Kimberly, you can do subQs in the belly, thigh, or upper arm (front), so long as you use a 1/2" needle. My RE prefers stim subQs to be in the belly so that's what we do. The IMs can be in the hip (1-1/2" needle), thigh (1" needle), or upper arm (back - 1" needle). I found the thigh too tender to do IMs - I hurt for days afterwards. The rest I have done but we seem to keep going back to the belly for subQs and I stick with the hip for IMs.

As for which drugs are which shots...Gonal-F/Follistim is subQ and Repronex is usually IM (although some do it subQ).

AngCTRealtor

October 25th, 2004, 09:57 PM

Only 2 more days of BCP for me!! I can't believe it is almost time to start with this new cycle. We haven't TTC since May 2003, so it has been over a year since I did the injections. I have done Gonal F, antagon and the HCG but not the progesterone oil. I have my class wednesday afternoon. I wonder when will AF come?

Kim~ Grow Follies Grow!

Suzi

October 25th, 2004, 11:20 PM

Well, AF showed up Saturday and so I start another IVF cycle. We had a consult appointment scheduled with my RE for the 18th but we have to see him before that to decide if we will do a long stim cycle or a flare. if we don't see him until the 18th it'd be too late for a long stim protocol. Luckily, we were able to squeeze in this Wednesday.

Sooooo....regardless of protocol, stims should start around 23/24 November. Geez, I can't believe we are turning this so fast!

Goo

October 26th, 2004, 12:15 PM

Suzi & Bev~Thanks so much for your explanations regarding the shots. It makes sense. . .I do find it interesting Suzi that your RE prefers the stim shots in the belly. I always wonder if where (as in what part of your body) you inject has any direct effect on how the drugs absorb into your system.

Sooooo....regardless of protocol, stims should start around 23/24 November. Geez, I can't believe we are turning this so fast!

Suzi~Awesome! :yippee: :up:

Ang~Good luck!

Well it seems as if my eggs are in a big hurry. There are now 3 measurable follicles. .all 16mm. I might be going in for a retrieval sooner than I thought. Mmmmmm. :dunno:

Kimberly

Suzi

October 26th, 2004, 02:47 PM

Kimberly, it's terrific that you are responding so well! :yippee:

AngCTRealtor

October 26th, 2004, 05:28 PM

Suzi~ Good luck! I hope all goes well. You will be starting right when we will be finding out if we were successful. Hopefully, we will all get BFP's one right after another.

Kim~ Glad to hear those follies are growing!

Goo

October 27th, 2004, 02:35 PM

I was in jeapardy yesterday of having my cycle canceled. :grr: :rolleyes: Although the follicles I do have are growing well (17.5, 18x2), there are only 3 :blue: My clinic likes to have at least 4 before they do the procedure.

I had another U/S this morning and there is a 12mm creeping up. I just got the phone call and I guess they decided to go ahead with it so I'm on for Friday. :thumbsup:

I'm trying so hard to calm down because I stupidly :duh: thought that my retrieval would happen on the weekend. Since the retrieval is Friday and I really wanted to take my transfer day (Monday) off, I'm in a little jam. . . .I work at a television station and with the Election being on Tuesday. . .:eek:. . .I just might have to work over the weekend. :tear:

As much as I try to pave the way so that my cycling months will be carefree, it just never seems to happen that way. I guess all I can do is take it day by day and wish for the best. :crossfing

Kimberly

Suzi

October 27th, 2004, 02:59 PM

Kimberly, don't sweat it. Once those embryos are transferred, there is NOTHING you can do (physically) to make them/coerce them into sticking! Bedrest doesn't even work, you know that! Julia is living proof that returning to normal daily activity immediately after transfer can produce a healthy baby. :nod: Just don't get yourself worked up about it, THAT will stress you out and you don't need that! :bighug:

Things are going well and there is some evidence to support fewer follicles producing better quality eggs. I am VERY hopeful for you this cycle! :aok: HANG IN THERE!!

I have a consult with my RE this afternoon, I will let y'all know what we decide when I get home.

BrenS

October 27th, 2004, 05:45 PM

Af finally showed up for me. 2 days after major surgery on my bottom lip. I was sure the pain meds would cause af to be late.. and I was right.

I go tomorrow for baseline bloodwork to see if I can start estrace! yay.

Suzi

October 27th, 2004, 06:10 PM

Brenda, I hope you are feling okay! Iwill have to go check on you over at TOF...

We met with our RE. We will do a long stim protocol - proven method and I have no qualms about that. He wants to do blood testing to see if I have a blood condition that causes my body to produce clots that cut off a developing embryo causing it to m/c. It is done when there have been three or more m/c and I have had two - because of my age, he is being proactive. Not sure if we will get the tests approved by insurance and they cost about $1000 to do. The RE said that if the insurance company drags their feet that we'll proceed without the test. It is most likely that I DON'T have the disorder but if he can get it approved, he'd like to be sure.

Anyway, our calendar is:

Start BCP: 10/31 (YIKES!! That's only FOUR days!)
Start Lupron shots: 11/16
Last BCP: 11/20
Down regulation u/s: 11/25 Thanksgiving
Start stims: 11/26
Progress check: 12/2
Retrieval (tentative): 12/8
Transfer (tentative): 12/11
Beta (tentative): 12/22
If positive, second beta (tentative): 12/24

I can't believe I am doing this...I must be FREAKING INSANE!! :crazy:

BrenS

October 27th, 2004, 06:26 PM

I feel ... hmm.. ok... I guess. Pain meds keep me asleep most of the time. I haven't taken any today because I wanted to be awake for the game tonight. :lol:

Bev

October 27th, 2004, 08:13 PM

Well ladies today I got the shock of my life. As you may know I conceived Mason with absolutely no trouble, textbook labour and delivery. Then I conceived the complete molar pregnancy. No baby, of course just a stubborn tumour requiring 12 rounds of chemo to get rid of it. Since then we had been trying for 6 months, the OB did some tests determined I wasn't Oing properly and DH's sperm wasn't the best. We did Clomid with IUI that was unsuccesful. On Sept 29th we had our first appt at the RE/Fertility Clinic. He did some bloodwork and we had an appt for Nov 1 for an HSG and extra super special s/a for DH.

I was supposed to call on Monday when AF arrived (expected between Fri to Sun). Well, no AF. Nor on Tuesday. So I joked to DH that I was going to buy a test on my way to work today so that I could POAS and 5 minutes later AF could show up.

Well I got a BFP. I was and am stunned! I already went to the OB/GYN to get a req for a beta and then right to the lab. When the get the results they'll call for an appt, and will book a u/s for 7 weeks to rule out another molar. I will not entirely relax until I know for sure there is actually a baby in there and that it has a heart beat.

I tell you, I absolutely feel for everyone one of you here and dearly hope you all get pregnant soon. I hope you don't mind if I stop in to check on you because I think you ladies are wonderful and have more strength than anyone will ever know.

Suzi

October 27th, 2004, 08:38 PM

:bawl: Beverly, I am SO HAPPY FOR YOU!!! I got tears in my eyes reading that you got a BFP and I am in shock!

Congratulations to you and I wish you well on your new journey. And I will hunt you down if you don't follow me, Kimberly, Brenda, Ana, Angela, and Jennifer to our SUCCESSES!!! :lol:

:pteddy: CONGRATULATIONS!!! :bteddy:

Goo

October 28th, 2004, 08:13 PM

Bev~:bighug: :yippee: That is just absolutely wonderful news!!!! Wow! Well. . .see? You were NOT TOO OLD. :biggrin: I'm so happy for you.

Suzi~Things are going well and there is some evidence to support fewer follicles producing better quality eggs. I am VERY hopeful for you this cycle!

I've heard that before and had forgotten. You made my day! :sunny:

Bren~How 'bout those awesome Red Sox huh? :banana:

I'm as ready as I'll ever be for tomorrow. :rolleyes: I had an acupuncture appointment tonight after work for good measure and I'll just spend the rest of my time thinking positive thoughts for tomorrow.

Kimberly

Suzi

October 28th, 2004, 08:16 PM

Kimberly, my prayers are with you for tomorrow. Please let us know how it went when you feel up to it! :pray:

Bev

October 29th, 2004, 07:06 AM

Good luck today Kim! :)

Suzi

October 29th, 2004, 07:31 AM

I'm thinking of you girl! I'm praying for the BEST!!

Ana975

October 29th, 2004, 08:31 AM

OMG Beverly! I'm so happy for you!

Kim, good luck!

Goo

October 29th, 2004, 03:47 PM

Thank you so much for all your thoughts. :hug99:

Things went smoothly, although I'm a bit dissapointed with the outcome. :blue: I had 4 follicles going in and they only retrieved 2 eggs. One of the follicles was just too small (the one that had crept up towards the end), and another was empty. :dunno: I don't typically produce tons of follicles, but I've at least had 5 eggs which each IVF. I'm just surprised because I've been taking super care of myself nutritionally, getting acupuncture, etc.

Unusually enough, I'm not falling apart yet and still have faith that the two retrieved eggs are fabulous and will fertilize nicely. :pray:

Maybe it's the fact that I've been pregnant on my own and know how much more healthy I felt without the drugs, maybe it's the fact that the Red Sox actually won (divine intervention?), maybe it was the lunar eclipse. . .I just feel positive that regardless how it's done, there is a pregnancy in my future. I mean, look at Bev's wonderful and remarkable surprise??!!

Kimberly

Bev

October 29th, 2004, 07:50 PM

I'm glad you're feeling positive Kim! :)

Suzi

October 29th, 2004, 10:06 PM

Kimberly, remember that fewer follicles have shown to produce eggs of higher quality. :nod: I am praying for you and your babies!

JuniperJen

October 30th, 2004, 12:08 AM

Beverly,
WOW. Congratulations on your BFP! :yippee: What a happy surprise. We definitely want you to keep us updated.

Kimberly,
I am sorry you didn't have as many follicles as you would have liked. Quality is more important than quantity, though. I am thinking +++ thoughts for you. :)

We had our IVF class on Thursday. It went well. The nurse went over all the medication (we will be using Lupron, the Gonal-F pen, and the Ovidrel pre-filled syringe), explained the procedures, and had us sign all our paperwork.
Lorne also gave a semen sample for a S/A. We got some bad news in regards to that today. Between my ob/gyn and our RE in Tulsa, Lorne has had at least 4 S/A. Every one of them came back GREAT. But now we found out that they never tested morphology, only count and motility. The S/A on Thursday showed that he has very low morphology even though his count and motility are excellent. I feel like we wasted so much time with Clomid and IUIs if the only problem we had was low morphology. All this time we thought we had "unexplained infertility." I guess it is better to at least know what is wrong. Because of the low morphology, we will be doing ICSI.
I didn't actually start Luron Thursday. After looking at the calendar, the IVF coordinator decided to have me start tomorrow (Saturday). So between 6-8 pm tomorrow, I will have my first Luron shot. :) I stop BCP on Nov 4. I will start Gonal-F around Nov 12 (depending on when my period starts). My retrieval will be around Nov 22 or so and if we do a 5-day transfer, it will be around Nov 27.
I got some excellent news today concerning the medicine. The Arkansas school employees got a new prescription drug plan in October. I assumed that it would be like the previous policy - no fertility drugs were covered. My IVF coordinator had arranged for me to order from Freedom Drug and have my drugs Fed Exed to me. Well, Freedom Drug called and said when they called my prescription insurance, they were told that Gonal-F and Ovidrel were covered, but only from certain pharmacies. I called my prescription insurance and they said YES, they do cover Gonal-F and Ovidrel if it is ordered from an Arkansas pharmacy. :yippee: So the IVF coordinator is faxing my prescription for those two drugs to a local pharmacy so they can order it and file it with my insurance. I don't want to get my hopes up in case it doesn't work out, but if they do pay for it we will save over $2,500! :owow: I did order the Lupron and all the other oral medicines for the cycle from Freedom Drug (since I need the Lupron tomorrow). It is supposed to arrive by Fed Ex between 9am-1pm.
Lorne and I both took our antibiotics tonight. We are ready to get started!
I will let you know how my first shot goes tomorrow! :)

Jennifer

Bev

October 30th, 2004, 10:14 AM

Good luck Jennifer. :) What a pisser about the testing, you'd think they would try to be thorough, seeing as they are Doctors. :rolleyes:

Suzi

October 30th, 2004, 11:02 AM

Jennifer, that is rotten about the SA testing but that should just go to show you - you CAN'T stand idly by when you are going through IF. You have to become your own expert and question EVERYTHING about your care. I can tell you - more than a few times I have known people who questioned something (cycle dates, test results, even things as serious to an IVF cycle as medication dosage) and found out their center gave incorrect information. I'm not trying to scare you, just make DOUBLE SURE you know why you are doing what you are doing and when. It will pay off for you to be VERY thorough. :nod:

What great news about your drugs - that always makes a big difference! Good luck with your shot tonight - should be easy-breezy! :aok:

BrenS

October 30th, 2004, 05:05 PM

Suzi gives good advice.

Fantastic news about the drugs being covered! We would not have been doing anything past IUI's had we not had coverage for all these procedures. I feel very lucky.

Suzi

October 30th, 2004, 10:08 PM

And having to pay for all my drugs and procedures out of pocket, I would not have done as many IVFs had I not had a few angels, myself! So actually....I am very lucky!!:bighug:

JuniperJen

October 30th, 2004, 10:23 PM

I did my Lupron shot this evening. It wasn't bad at all. I gave it to myself in my stomach.

I hope you all have a HAPPY HALLOWEEN!

Jennifer

Goo

November 1st, 2004, 05:46 PM

Jen~Regarding what Suzi said,. . . just make DOUBLE SURE you know why you are doing what you are doing and when. It will pay off for you to be VERY thorough.

My sentiments exactely. And I'm one of those people who didn't pay enough attention and always assumed that all those "medical" people were right on top of everything. I'm actually on my third Dr. now. :crazy:

I did my Lupron shot this evening. It wasn't bad at all. I gave it to myself in my stomach.

Kudos to you! :clap: From my 1st IVF to my 7th, I never had the courage to give myself my own shot.

It wasn't until after things got worse, that they got better. :silly: I got the fertilization report the next day (Saturday) only to find out that only one fertilized. :blue: I've always had such high percentages of follicle to egg ratios and then egg to fertilization ratios! By Saturday evening, I had pretty much put it out of my mind. It was so weird because although I was bummed, I wasn't consumed by it. I mentioned it to my husband and that was the end of the conversation. In the past, I would have pondered over everything until I cried myself to sleep. Not this time. I went to the mall with my sister (shopping cheers me up), watched scary movies, and then woke up the next day and carved some pumpkins and got prepared for the crowd of trick or treaters soon to be at my house.

When I woke up for the transfer, I had almost forgotten that it was today. I woke up thinking about what I was going to wear for work. Anyway, on our way to the clinic (DH came along) I was in good spirits. I have to mention this because under normal circumstances I would have been really sad. Somehow, it's like I'm kind of numb to it. (Weren't you saying something like this recently Suzi?)

Anyway, my expectations were so low so I was so extremely and pleasantly surprised when the transfer Dr. told me that my one embryo was 9-celled and was being referred to as "HIP"--high implatation probability (characterized by having been 2-celled by day 2 but jumping to a 6 or 7-celled by day 3). :yippee: And so, I left the clinic with smiles, had an acupuncture appointment, and then relaxed all day.

Tomorrow will be a bit crazy for me with the elections and all so I've made an appointment for a massage on Wednesday evening. Just trying to think ahead. :awink:

Kimberly

Suzi

November 1st, 2004, 06:06 PM

Kimberly, that is GREAT NEWS!!! I am so excitied for you and what great news to hear that your RE considers this a high impant probability transfer! What more could you ask for??!! I am PRAYING that this is the lucky transfer that will result in your BFP! :pray:

Goo

November 1st, 2004, 07:27 PM

Suzi~Thanks!

I wanted to mention: I ran into an old friend of mine at the supermarket yesterday. She was telling me that her sister concieved her first child on her 10th--yes, 10th IVF attempt and to top things off, she was pregnant again on her 3rd IVF attempt, which translates to 13 IVFs altogether! She is also 40 yrs. old.

I don't know how she persevered, but hearing about this did remind me to keep my head up.

Kimberly

Suzi

November 1st, 2004, 08:34 PM

Good Lord, TEN IVF cycles. I can't imagine...I suppose I'd easily do ten if that's what it took if I had insurance to cover it! I can tell you all - it is worth EVERY bit of heartache. :nod:

Bev

November 1st, 2004, 08:55 PM

Oooh! Good luck Kim! I'll be waiting for your betas! :)

AngCTRealtor

November 2nd, 2004, 06:22 PM

Beverly, Congrats on your BFP. I hope you are the start of very many more BFP's to come!
Do you have a Dr's appt soon?

Kim~Not too much longer now... I hope you are our next BFP. When is your test date?

AF showed up today bright and early. I have an U/S and bloodwork tomorrow AM and get the go ahead to start the follistim. Ryan will start the doxcycline to clean out his sperm. he has to take that 2x a day for 10 days. I am thinking my Retrieval will be around the 15th. It is closer than I know. Did I mention yet I am so petrified?

Bev

November 2nd, 2004, 07:59 PM

Good luck Angela! Jennifer, how's it going? Kim how are you feeling? What's up with you Suzi and Brenda?

I finally got my betas from the 27th. They were 828. I had another one on Monday but don't know what those are yet. My first doc appt and u/s is on Nov 15th! It'll be a stressful day for me and Angela! :)

Suzi

November 2nd, 2004, 08:43 PM

Not much here...back on the blasted BCPs. We are going to visit my best friend tomorrow and I will be gone for a week. I will probably get a chance to peek in every so often while we are there so I will keep up on what's going on around here! Hope everyone has a good week and Kimberly, I will be praying for you - you can BET on that!! :nod:

JuniperJen

November 2nd, 2004, 10:29 PM

:wavey: Things are going well for me. I have now had four shots of Lupron. They don't hurt much at all - especially if my DH gives them to me in my arm. I can't even feel them in my arm at all. If he isn't home, I give them to myself in the stomach.
I only have two more days of BCP. I hope AF shows up pretty soon afterwards. That will determine when I start Gonal-F.
I hope you all have a great Wednesday!

Jennifer

Goo

November 3rd, 2004, 05:16 PM

Did I mention yet I am so petrified?

Ang~Don't be. You'll get through this like a breeze. :nod: And if you should need anything, we're all here to hold your hand. :hug99: The 15th is right around the corner. How exciting. :yippee:

Bev~Things are looking good. :aok: I'm so happy for you.

Suzi~Have a great time with your friend. . .and thank you so much for keeping me in your prayers. :justahug:

My Beta is on Saturday, November 13. It's actually a bit longer than usual, 12 days after transfer as opposed to 11. I had to take an additional hcg shot the evening of the transfer, so they want to make sure the hcg is out of my system before the Beta. One of the issues with the 11/13 Beta is that not only will my mom be in town, but I'm taking DH out that night for his birthday. :errr: What's a girl to do? :dunno: Pray for the best, prepare for the worse? I'm feeling O.K.. .the only problem is that I'm supposed to take it easy and stay calm and relaxed, but between election day itself and then the outcome of it all, I haven't had much sleep and frankly I've been a bit depressed. I have my massage scheduled for this evening so I'm thankful for that.

Kimberly

Bev

November 3rd, 2004, 08:25 PM

Take care of yourself Kim! :)

AngCTRealtor

November 4th, 2004, 07:40 PM

Kim~ Hope that massage helped get you relaxed. Hang in there girl. I have a good feeling about you this month!

Tonight is day 2 of stims and so far they are a breeze and I don't even feel it. I know the progesterone oil shot I will, which is the one and only shot I am dreading and the fact I will have to do it for maybe 4 to 5 weeks. Hey if it helps, I am all for it.

Jen~I got AF 6 days after my last BCP pill. I hope she come quick!

Goo

November 5th, 2004, 07:35 AM

Ang~The massage was wonderful. Thanks! :)

I'm hanging in there, staying positive.

Kimberly

schwanda

November 5th, 2004, 08:49 AM

Kim - Just stopping by to send you good thoughts! I really hope this is it!
Beverly - CONGRATS on your miracle!
Good luck to everyone in cycle! I hope there are lots of graduates!

Amanda

JuniperJen

November 6th, 2004, 06:43 PM

Kim, I am glad you are staying positive. I will keep you in my prayers. I hope that this is your cycle! :nod:

Ang, I am glad your stims are going well. I am also glad to hear that they are not painful. Lupron has been painless so far. We just don't need to think about those progesterone shots. ;)

Well, AF is here! :yippee: ( I never thought I would use that smilie for AF). I spoke to my RE's nurse on Friday. She said if AF started over the weekend, my u/s would be on Tuesday.
What day do you normally start stims? I looked at my calendar from my RE and it says I will start on November 13 (CD 8). I thought I would start before that. :scratch: Is it normal to start stims that late in your cycle?

I hope you are all having a great weekend.

Jennifer

Suzi

November 7th, 2004, 12:16 AM

Jennifer, it depends on the protocol you are on. On a long stim protocol you start Lupron 5 days before the end of BCPs, a down reg u/s is scheduled for 7 days after you take your last BCP and if AF has shown up, you start stims the day after the down reg u/s (get that??). Hope that helps!

Kimberly, I am thinking of you EVERY day and praying for you. Hope this cycle you are blessed with a BFP! :nod:

Goo

November 8th, 2004, 06:28 AM

Well, AF is here! :yippee: ( I never thought I would use that smilie for AF).

Jen~No kidding huh? I feel the same way everytime. It's also weird when I get excited about starting BCPs. Go figure.

Thank you so much everyone for keeping me in your prayers. :aok: Another friend just put me on a prayer wheel--I'm so lucky to have so many people thinking of me. :)

On a side note, I had a psychic party yesterday. I just had a psychic come over and do readings for people. I've never done this before and it was a lot of fun. All the women at my house thought the psychic did a great job and there were only a few misses. Anyway, the psychic (who uses Tarot Cards) says to me at one point. . .are you trying to get pregnant or something because that's showing up a lot here. :eek: Then he said, "Oh you'll definitely be pregnant within the next 5 months." I was hoping he said within the next week. :awink: Anyway, for whatever that's worth. :dunno:

Kimberly

JuniperJen

November 8th, 2004, 07:38 AM

Kimberly,
I hope the psychic is right! :)

Jennifer

Bev

November 8th, 2004, 02:18 PM

Oooooooooh! Good luck Kim! :)

AngCTRealtor

November 8th, 2004, 05:53 PM

Hi Everyone,

I am on day 6 of stims and had my U/S today. I have many many foliicles, the biggest right now are 12's. We are hoping that some of the smaller ones catch up soon. Looks like I could have the retrieval this weekend. I can't believe how fast this is happenning. I have to start my antagon tomorrow. I go back Wed for another U/S and B/W appt.

Kim~Not too much longer now. I hope the psychic is right too. Are you HPT'ing before you do the BETA. I go back and forth with that one myself.

Jen~Glad AF is here so you can get going with this cycle. Do you know what drugs you are using yet? Have you used the "pen" before?

Suzi~Hope you are having a great trip.

Bev~ What's going on with you? How ya feeling?

Ok I am off to do my shot!

JuniperJen

November 8th, 2004, 07:13 PM

Ang,
I will be using the Gonal-F pen (is that what you are using?) I start Gonal-F on Saturday if everything is ok with tomorrow morning's u/s and bloodwork.

I had posted earlier that my insurance might cover the Gonal-F. Well, it didn't. :( I had to pay full price for one pen. Luckily, another patient is selling me two unused pens for half price (she just had her transfer - they had 19 embryos rated excellent!) I am hoping her I will respond half as well as she did. Since she is selling me her pens, it will save us about $1000. :yippee:

How is everyone else doing this evening?

Jennifer

Goo

November 9th, 2004, 08:53 AM

Ang~I'm not going to use an HPT beforehand. :thumbsdow I like to stall off any possible depression as long as I can. :awink: I'm going in for my Beta on a Saturday morning. That same evening, I will be taking my husband out for dinner for his birthday. We'll either celebrate the best birthday ever or we'll celebrate a birthday which will seem like we don't have a care in the world, because I will be ordering a few bottles of wine. :silly: I would prefer to NOT be drinking the wine.

You're getting really close. . .If you already have a few at 12mm, perhaps you'll even have it by Friday.

Jen~I'm so sorry that your insurance is not covering this. I didn't use the pen (and was quite jealous about it) but I have several unused vials of Gonal-F if you need. . .????

5 more days to go. :yippee: or :cry:?

schwanda

November 9th, 2004, 10:44 AM

Ang - I did an antagon protocal, too. That's great that the follies are getting there!
Jennifer - Sorry your insurance doesn't cover Gonal-F but at least you saved some $$.
Kim - Still sending prayers!

Amanda

AngCTRealtor

November 10th, 2004, 07:18 PM

HI all,

I had another U/S today and the RE says I will have about 13 follicles ready for retrieval. Looks like most of the smaller ones from mon have caught up because now they are all about the same size. They all range from 11's to 14's. I have to go back Fri for a final U/S. RE says I will most likely go for retrieval Sun or Mon. I am hoping for Monday. He says everything looks good and we are right on track. I can't believe in about 4 days I could have this retrieval. I am feeling ok, just more tired and I am definitely feeling my ovaries, it's almost like a heavy pulling sensation in my abdomen area.

Amanda~The antagon is not bad at all. I remember you from UB. I used to be Angela1776, if that rings any bells for ya. How old is your baby boy now?

Jen~I am using follistim in the pen form. I have used gonal f before but not with the pen. I did the multi dose. How did your appt. go yesterday?

Kim~I think I am going to do the same as you and not HPT. I don't know if it's just me that feels like this or is you can relate(and anyone else reading this) but I have developed a hatred for HPT's. It is tempting but I am vowing to be HPT free. Guess I should throw out the one I have under my bathroom sink. How are you feeling?

I have a friend coming over soon who is training to be a hypnotist and basically will learn how to help people with a variety of problems such as anger management, stress relief, smoking cessation. So she is coming over now to do a session with me to help me relax and get ready for going through the IVF. I am curious to see what she is going to do.

JuniperJen

November 11th, 2004, 07:43 AM

My appointment went well. The u/s was clear and my FSH and E2 levels were on track. :) I will start 150 units of Gonal-F twice a day starting Saturday. I will have blood work next Tuesday. I am excited to finally get started.

Jennifer

Suzi

November 11th, 2004, 09:38 AM

:woo: Jennifer! Once you start stims it goes REALLY fast because you are at the REs office all the time. :yippee:

Angela, how did it go with your friend? I know several people who have used acupuncture, hypnotism, etc. for IVF. After our last cycle I wanted to look into acupuncture but my cycle started so quickly after our chemical PGY that I didn't have a chance.

Kimberly, are you holding out okay? I am praying for you and sending big hugs all the time! :nod:

Still nothing going for me - I start Lupron on the 16th so it's sneaking up!

schwanda

November 11th, 2004, 09:45 AM

Angela - I totally remember you! Nathaniel is 9 months now and we're thinking about #2 already... Sounds like things are on track for you!
Jennifer - HOORAY for starting!
Suzi - I did acupuncture with my IVF cycle. I thought it was great!!! The only downside was the cost...

Amanda

Goo

November 11th, 2004, 09:59 AM

I'm not feeling so positive today. :blue: I don't know. :dunno: I think I have a cold or allegies or something. My throat hurts & itches, my eyes itch. And I have cramps!!! :furious: I know that cramping is common with pregnancies, but this are really quite painful cramps. :banghead: Maybe I just need to go back to bed again and wake up on the other side.

Kimberly

Nicki

November 11th, 2004, 08:15 PM

I just realized I could see this forum, even though I am not subscribed... woo hoo...

So I don't know if you guys remember me from UB or not, But I think of you all often, and wonder how you are... I am so glad to be able to read and catch up on you all... Good luck to you!!

For those who don't know/remember me. I am Nicki and I had a son Xander 17 months ago, from our 3rd IVF/AH/ICSI attempt. We are now trying for another miracle, though we don't insurance for IVF anymore, so we are starting back at the beginning and hoping for a miracle. We will do one cycle of clomid, which I feel is a waste of time, but whatever... then move on to Inject and IUI... and we'll see. When we have enough $$$ saved we will go for broke with our frozen embies (we have 4)... anyway I have hijacked your thread long enough just wanted to say Hi!! :wavey:

Suzi

November 11th, 2004, 11:13 PM

NICKI!!!!!!!! :woo: I am SO glad that you are here and I hope that you will continue to stop by for support - we are a small but DETERMINED group here!

I hope Xander is doing well - and you too! I miss you and everyone else from the IF threads on UB. Still email every once in a while with Kat, Dana, and Sue though. Please give everyone my best and let them know I think of them often - sure do miss the old group (but this new one is pretty awesome!!!)!

Good luck with the TTC. We have had quite a ride this year and we are on our 4th IVF since March. Seems like I've been doing drugs all year long. I am REALLY hoping for a miracle this time around - my body just can't take much more of this! :dunno:

Take care and please check in to let us know how you are doing!! The support here is absolutely the BEST!! :bighug:

Goo

November 12th, 2004, 07:46 AM

Welcome Nicki! I remember you. :welcome:

Kimberly

Suzi

November 12th, 2004, 09:17 AM

Kimberly, I hope you are doing better today!!! :bighug: Just one more day!

schwanda

November 12th, 2004, 09:50 AM

Hey Nicki!

Kimberly - I am sending every good thought I have for you!

Amanda

AngCTRealtor

November 12th, 2004, 12:28 PM

Well I went to my appt this morning and I was sent home for bed rest all weekend...I woke up this morning in agony. My lower abdomen felt heavy and was having sharp pains in my lower back. I didn't know how I was going to shower and drive to the RE's. But I did. I knew I had to go so I just pushed myself. Thank God I made it safely. I couldn't even walk it hurt so bad. They knew the minute I walked in I was in so much pain. They whisked me in and I felt bad because their were so many other women there before me. The Dr put in the ultrasound and I jumped, she felt so bad. Her mouth dropped and she showed me my ovaries. they were absolutely huge. I almost cried when I saw them. They were loaded with follicles. She was completely shocked. No wonder why I was in so much pain. So instead of 13 to 15 eggs, looks like I will have 20 to 30 of them now. My retrieval is Sunday at 9:15am. I do my lupron trigger tonite. I am very high risk for the OHSS. Thank God I am doing a lupron trigger instead of an HCG trigger. I had a little melt down in the office with the nurse. She was so nice and comforting. I just feel so overwhelmed and most of all scared to death. I had a dream last night I went into retrieval and I panicked. Well I will keep you all posted , I am going to go lay down now.

Nicki, I remember you from UB. Welcome! I wish you success as TTC #2.
Kim~Not too much longer now at all. I am so positive and hopeful for you. Hope you are feeling better.

Suzi

November 12th, 2004, 12:57 PM

Oh Angela, that is awful! Make SURE you weigh yourself EVERY day at the same time (like when you first get up). If you gain a significant amount of weight in a day (like 4-5 pounds) make SURE you get your RE on the phone! Take care of yourself - I'd say OHSS is pretty much a given at this point so be CAREFUL! :bighug:

AngCTRealtor

November 12th, 2004, 04:42 PM

Suzi, I feel as if the OHSS is inevitable now too. Just maybe it wont be so bad because I am not using the HCG. I did get on the scale this morning because I kinda knew before I went to the Dr and it was up 2 pounds since Tue so I knew what to expect when I got to the Drs.

I just had a good 3 hour nap. I am still feeling pretty lousy. I can not wait till Sunday. I feel like a constipated hen.

Suzi

November 12th, 2004, 05:15 PM

I feel like a constipated hen.
:rotflmao: Well, the relief will be immediate! Right when you wake up from retrieval you will feel ever so much better! Just make sure you keep an eye out even after that... :bighug:

JuniperJen

November 12th, 2004, 05:17 PM

Angela,
I am so sorry you feel so terrible. Please watch yourself carefully and stay down.
I am glad the nurse was nice to you.
I will be thinking about you! :)

Jennifer

Bev

November 12th, 2004, 06:46 PM

Oh Kim! :hug99: I hope things work out. :crossfing

Angela! How scary! I'm glad the Nurse was kind. Take care! Good luck at the retrieval. :)

Suzi and Jen I am still watching your progress and keeping :crossfing for you both!

Bev

November 12th, 2004, 06:48 PM

PS Hi Nicki! :wavey: They took a poll to see if we wanted others to see the thread and most of us said yes. :)

Goo

November 13th, 2004, 02:44 PM

You ladies are soooo sweet! But things didn't work out for me. :cry: I did something that I never do and I used an HPT last night. :rolleyes: I had such a feeling that AF was coming, and I was just so anxious. BFN of course. We had quite a bit of snow here during the night and I just did not feel like taking the 1/2 drive for the bloodtest so I called and cancelled today. I will still have to go for protocal reasons and will do so on Monday morning.

I'm very sad right now and have pretty much done nothing all day. I know that I'll feel better in time. But what the heck is wrong with me? Still unexplained, low fsh levels, nothing wrong with my tubes, uterus, etc. (at least as far as a medical Dr. is concerned). I'm just so frustrated. :furious:

Ang~Geez, I'm so sorry you're going through all this right now. I'll be thinking of you. . .just one more day.

Kimberly

AngCTRealtor

November 13th, 2004, 03:02 PM

Oh Kim, I am so sorry. I am so frustrated for you. I wish I had magical powers sometimes. Please do not give up!

Ang

Suzi

November 13th, 2004, 05:37 PM

Oh Kimberly, I am so sorry. :hug99:

JuniperJen

November 14th, 2004, 12:51 AM

Kimberly,
I am so sorry about the BFN :( . I know you must be feeling so frustrated and sad.
We are here for you.

Jennifer

schwanda

November 14th, 2004, 03:27 PM

Kim - I'm so sad for you.
Angela - Good luck! And take care of yourself.

Amanda

AngCTRealtor

November 14th, 2004, 06:44 PM

Hi everyone

Today went well. The retrieval was such a breeze. i can't believe I was so nervous and worked up about it. I went in at 8:30 and was home by 11:00 am. I have a total of 21 eggs. They will call me tomorrow with a fertilization report. I don't expect all 21 to properly fertilize. I still can't believe 21. Anyway I came home and slept till 3pm. I am still quite sore. Wed is the transfer and my beta test will be 11/28.

Thanks for all your good wishes.

Suzi

November 14th, 2004, 07:01 PM

Good luck Angela - I've been thinking of you all day! Take care!

Goo

November 14th, 2004, 07:56 PM

Ang~I'm glad they finally got those eggies out of you. I'm wishing you all the best on your fert report. . .and then a sane and calm next two weeks. :clap:

I'm feeling a little bit better today. I had a brush of happiness when I pondered the idea that the HPT could have been wrong. I thought that maybe I'd go in on Monday and find out that I was indeed pregnant. Unfortunately, AF came this morning and brought some intense cramps along with her. :blue: If I can just hold onto the fact that I've been pregnant naturally more times than I've been pregnant via ART, then I'm still positive and still in the game. When I give in to those negative, "what's wrong with me and it'll never happen" thoughts, I get really sad. I just have to keep remembering the former. I'll be fine. . .I think. DH and I might start talking more seriously about adoption. I just know that I couldn't have gotten through this as well without you guys. :hug99:

Kimberly

Suzi

November 14th, 2004, 08:50 PM

Kimberly, I am glad that I have been a part of your support network - and very glad that you have been a part of mine. It is unfortunate circumstances that have brought us all together but I am blessed for having "met" each one of you! :nod:

Ana975

November 15th, 2004, 09:33 AM

Kim, I'm so sorry about the BFN and AF :bighug:
Beverly, how are you feeling?
Suzi, Ang and Jen, good luck!

schwanda

November 15th, 2004, 03:48 PM

Kim - I'm so sorry.

Angela - Great news on the retrieval! I'm crossing everything for you.

Amanda

Suzi

November 15th, 2004, 04:50 PM

Amanda, I see that you will be TTC #2 soon - does that mean you will be joining us?? :biggrin:

AngCTRealtor

November 15th, 2004, 05:24 PM

Ok I have a fertilization report for everone.

Out of the 21 eggs retrieved, 7 of them were mature,(they only use the mature eggs). All 7 were able to fertilize!! We did ICSI so I am pretty sure that is why they did well. She said everything looked good and I am going to have my transfer wed at 11AM. Before we do the transfer we will meet with the RE and discuss quality and determine how many to put in. I want to shoot for 3 but Ryan and the DR are set against that. Right from the begining the Dr said 2 only but of course that is up to us. Tonite I start the progesterone injections, My Best friend is coming over to do it since she was able to come to the class with me. She will also teach Ryan too. I am so excited. I feel like this is really happenning and feel so much closer to being a mom then ever.

Kim~ Keep your head up girl! It will happen, and you are so right when you said you have gotten pg more on your own than with ART. I have never been Pg on my own so you definitely got something going there for you.
Amanda~Thank you, Thank you! It was a success and I am thrilled with the results!
Ana~Thanks too! How are you doing?

JuniperJen

November 15th, 2004, 08:03 PM

Ang,
Wow! 7 fertilized. That is great. :yippee:
I am so excited for you. I will be praying for you and your embryos on Wednesday. I will be anxious to see how many you have put back in.
Let me know if the progesterone hurts badly. I am scared to death of those injections.

I am so happy for you! :)

Jennifer

AngCTRealtor

November 15th, 2004, 08:42 PM

Jennifer~Thank you Thank you! The progesterone was a breeze! It didn't hurt at all. I really iced the area and I think that really helped. So make sure you do the same. keep those prayers coming and I will do the same for you. How is the gonal f going?

Bev

November 15th, 2004, 08:52 PM

Hi Ladies.

Kim, I love your attitude. Despite the sadness you are still so positive. That's got to count for something. And as I can attest to, miracles happen! ;)

Ana, I was sorry to read about your BFN. Are you trying again soon?

Angela, your retreival and fertilization sound fantastic!

Jennifer, you must be up for retreival soon, eh?

Suzi, where are you at? I know your clinic does group sessions, so how long do you have to wait?

As for me, I am feeling good. I had my u/s today and we saw a nice flickering heartbeat and no molar tissue! Whew! The baby is measuring at 7w5d and the sac at 8w. He's keeping my EDD the same as counting from LMP it is within 5 days of the measurements. I declined the Maternal Serum Screening (AFP) and I'm pretty sure I will decline the amnio, but I have time to think about that. My next appt is Dec 13th, so they are treating me normally now. My big u/s will be in 13 weeks.

I pray for you ladies every night. I hope it works. :)

Suzi

November 16th, 2004, 12:26 AM

Oh Beverly, that is fantastic!! :yippee: I am very happy for you - you can start to enjoy this new little one now! By the way, I spoke of you tonight - were your ears ringing? I was on an IF panel for my Mothers and More group (over 100 women) and there was a woman there who was just like you - had been PG on her own, when she tried for the second she had high FSH (15) and she is 37. I told her to not give up, that I knew of someone like her and she got PG on her own! She was ECSTATIC to hear that it was even possible - she had been SO worried that she was simply out of luck. Anyway, your good news made someone feel better tonight. :nod:

Angela and Jennifer - don't sweat the PIO shots too much. The shots themselves don't really hurt - it is the build-up/knots in your hips after several days of shots. Make SURE that you knead the area WELL and a heating pad on your hip helps also. Ahhh...the memories!

As for me, I start Lupron tomorrow. I am getting antsy about getting this IVF underway but I know it'll all be over before I know it. IVF cycles always go by so fast and this one will go by evern FASTER because of the holiday and Christmas shopping and decorating and cooking and baking! Seems hard to believe that retrieval will be in just 22(-ish) short days!

You all are in my prayers every day!! :nod:

schwanda

November 16th, 2004, 06:13 AM

Suzi - Here's the thing... Our IF was caused by me not ovulating at all (not even on clomid!). Post-partum, I've been ovulating (I'm having 50 day cycles but I'm actually having cycles for the 1st time ever). We're going to try on our own for a few cycles and then do a FET maybe in February/March... Good luck with your upcoming cycle!
Angela - GREAT news! 7 embryos!!!
Jennifer - I didn't love the progesterone injections but they weren't that bad either...
Beverly - CONGRATS! That's great news!

Amanda

AngCTRealtor

November 17th, 2004, 09:26 PM

Beverly~ What awesome news for you! Congrats again!

Amanda~ Good luck TTC # 2!

Suzi~ It does go by so fast. I can't believe I am all done. It just flew by.

As for me, Our transfer went very well. We transferred an 8 and 6 cell with a grading of 2 for both(on a scale of 1 to 5, meaning 1 is the best and 5 the worst) . The RE said anything that is a 6,7,8 cell is great and 2 is great too. He said their is not much difference between a 1 and a 2. So overall that was really great news and totally very encouraging. So all we have to do now is wait, wait and wait. Come on 11/28. It has been very hard trying to be still. I am not doing anything strenuous. I hope sitting at the computer is ok.:blush1:

Does anyone know any stats on embroyo quality or know of any websites about successful embroyos and their cell size?

Bev

November 17th, 2004, 09:36 PM

Angela, glad to hear the transfer went well!

Suzi, I hope this is the cycle for you! :) I'm pleased my story could help someone. There really is a benefit to seeing the positive side of things even though it seems impossible. When I was going to the Cancer Centre every week for 3 months for my chemo I kept thinking to myself how lucky I was to only have GTD and not something really awful like breast or ovarian cancer. Some people really didn't understand that, but I guess you had to be there.

Amanda how great that you are Oing on your own! Good luck to you! :)

Suzi

November 18th, 2004, 12:11 AM

Does anyone know any stats on embroyo quality or know of any websites about successful embroyos and their cell size?
Angela, I can tell you that this is a road you don't want to go down! Embryo quality/size has VERY little to do with success rates so it's best to wrap your arms around that one as soon as possible!! I know scads of people who have had PERFECT 8-celled embies transferred back only to get a BFN (myself included!). I have even known several people who have transferred back C and D quality 6- and 5-celled embryos (or less) and came home and cried for ten days straight only to end up with a BFP. And several of these people are ONE IN THE SAME.

I don't know your religious stance but I can tell you from my perspective, it is all about God's plan now. Whatever your beliefs, I will be praying for you! :pray: The 28th will be here before you know it - now to stay away from those blasted STICKS!! :devil:

Goo

November 18th, 2004, 05:56 PM

Ang~Ditto what Suzi said regarding worries/concerns about the embryo quality. I also happen to know this from experience--having transferred many 8-celled and even one 9-celled during the course of my IVFs. It was IVF #3 where we transferred our least best quality embryos-a 6, 5 and 4 where I actually got pregnant. . .although it was an ectopic. Take good care of yourself and stay positive. :bighug:

Suzi~I'm routing for you. :yippee:

Beverly~I'm so happy for you. :bighug:

Amanda~Are you going to be back soon?

If you ladies don't mind, I'd love to stick around for a while. Please? I don't have my post-Op appointment until December 9th, so I'm not exactely sure where I'm headed medically. We're very lucky here in MA, where IVFs are covered, but even if I'm told that they want to try for #8, I'm not sure at this point that I'd go for that. :dunno: Time will tell I guess. I'm back in gear for trying the old fashioned way this cycle. There's no reason for me to miss an opportunity. :awink: Of course, I'll know more after 12/9. Perhaps they will tell me no more, perhaps they will suggest donor egg (which I'm not sure I would do), or perhaps another IVF. I would like to have my 3 day bloods done again. I wonder how my FSH levels are doing? I'm confused and exhaused. I just want this to be over with.

I promise I'll have better days.

Kimberly

schwanda

November 19th, 2004, 08:54 AM

Angela - Fingers crossed for you! Glad the transfer went well. I think Suzi put it perfectly! Try NOT to get crazed about embryo quality and success rates b/c it's all in God's hands now.
Suzi - Hope things are going well!
Kimberly - Sorry things are in such limbo for you. I'm trying to be around more since we may be doing a FET in 2005.

Amanda

Suzi

November 19th, 2004, 09:20 AM

Angela, hope you are hanging in there okay! :nod: I am sending all kinds of sticky vibes your way!! ~#~#~#~#~#~#~

Jennifer, how are you doing? You should be having your first progress check, any news?

JuniperJen

November 19th, 2004, 10:50 AM

Hello, everyone! :wavey:

I had my ultrasound and bloodwork this morning. I was so nervous that they weren't going to be able to see any follicles.
I don't know the results of my bloodwork yet, but the doctor was able to see some follicles on the ultrasound. Here is what she saw:

lining: 12

right ovary: 6 follicles: 18mm, 16mm, 15mm, 13mm, 10mm, and 9mm

left ovary: 4 follicles: 17mm, 16mm, 15mm, and 13mm

Is this good for day 7 of Gonal-F?

I am waiting to hear from my RE on when I need another ultrasound and what dosage of Gonal-F I need to take the next couple of days.

I hope you are all having a great day. It's FRIDAY! :thumbsup:

Jennifer

schwanda

November 19th, 2004, 01:17 PM

That sounds great Jennifer!

Amanda

Suzi

November 19th, 2004, 04:36 PM

Jennifer, that is GREAT for today! With those results, you'll be back in tomorrow for another u/s and bloodwork. Trigger either tomorrow or Sunday, I bet. GOOD LUCK!!! :yippee: Let us know when you hear!

JuniperJen

November 19th, 2004, 05:41 PM

Amanda and Suzi,
Thanks!

I just spoke to the nurse. My E2 level was 907.
I am going back for another u/s and bloodwork on Sunday morning. :yippee: I will probably trigger Sunday night and will have my ER on Tuesday. I am very excited.
I don't have enough Gonal-F to get me through Sunday, so I have to order more.

Thank you for your support!

Jennifer

Bev

November 19th, 2004, 08:59 PM

Jennifer good luck on Tuesday! :)

Angela I'm :crossfing for a :bfp:

Kim My FSH was 14 in July and then 11 on the cycle I conceived. Have you done an antral follicle check? It's an emotional roller coaster. :hug99:

AngCTRealtor

November 20th, 2004, 06:28 PM

Hi Ladies,

I am doing fine so far. Just getting antsy to find out if I am PG or not. No sign of OHSS, which is good. I have had some on and off AF cramps starting today which is really sending me for a loop because it's only been 3 days since transfer and too soon for AF. Any thoughts on this ladies? When you guys were PG how did you feel after tansfer and before the beta? Anything stand out? I feel really good! I have an U/S tomorrow just to make sure I am not in hyperstim, it's part of the research project I was put in. I think the lupron worked very well compared to taking the hcg to trigger.

Jen~Good luck! I can't believe you are so close now.

Kimberly~Please stick with us. I wish I lived in MAss myself. I only live about 15 min away from the line. I can't believe they have had coverage since 1988. Everyone else is so far behind. I know here in CT, they are really trying to mandate coverage. It was a tie vote last year so we are very hopeful for this upcoming year.

Suzi

November 20th, 2004, 07:45 PM

Angela, the cramping is pretty normal - just the uterus recovering from all the prodding/poking that has taken place. Withnit a few days it should subside. :nod:

AngCTRealtor

November 20th, 2004, 08:39 PM

Oh ok , That makes sense now. Thanks Suzi! I knew it wasn't AF and I knew it wasn't because I am PG yet.

JuniperJen

November 21st, 2004, 11:31 AM

Ang,
I am keeping my fingers crossed for you and your embryos. :crossfing

I am back from my u/s. I may have to wait until Wednesday (instead of Tuesday) for my ER. Depending on my E2 level, they might want to do another u/s tomorrow.
Here is the info from my u/s today:
lining: 13mm
right ovary: 8 follicles: 19mm, 18mm, 17mm, 17mm, 16mm, 15mm, 14mm, 13mm
left ovary: 7 follicles: 18mm, 18mm, 16mm, 16mm, 15mm, 13mm, 11mm
I will get my E2 results and instructions later today.

Have a great Sunday! :)

Jennifer

Suzi

November 21st, 2004, 01:50 PM

Jennifer, that's great! You have enough follicles just under the range that I'd guess you will trigger tomorrow rather than today. They try to get the MOST follicles in the 17-21 range and since you have several that are on the low end, they don't worry so much about the one bigger one you have. Whatever they do, keep up posted! :yippee:

AngCTRealtor

November 21st, 2004, 05:08 PM

Jen~Thanks! My fingers are crossed for you too!

Had my U/S today. Everything was great. I have a little fluid behind my uterus and a few of the follicles filled back up with fluid. nothing serious by far. I asked him about the AF like cramping and as Suzi said, it was from all the prodding and poking as well as the progesterone making me feel like that. Some days I am so positive about this and the next I am so convinced it did not take. I guess this is just normal, right?

One more week to my beta!! Can I make it with out POAS? Keep me strong girls.

schwanda

November 22nd, 2004, 06:23 AM

Angela - Hang in there! The 2ww is the worst! Fingers crossed...
Jennifer - Sounds like everything's going well! Good luck with the trigger and retrieval!

Amanda

Suzi

November 22nd, 2004, 10:27 AM

Ang, I understand COMPLETELY!! The emotional rollercoaster of IVF is actually just beginning when the transfer is done! And let me tell you about POAS...it will cause you HEARTACHE!!!! If you absolutely can't take waiting, you can't. But I suggest you WAIT. When you have your beta you are already testing VERY early. The hCG may only be 40-something at the time of your beta and earlier than that...well, you can see where I'm going. I know people who tested early and were tortured for days because they got a BFN and then when the beta rolled around, it was BFP. I am one of them and I can tell you - I won't test early again for ANYTHING. Too much pain for nothing.

That said, I will test the morning of the beta before Chris goes to work so that we can be together when we find out. IVF is full of clinical, scientific crap...we like at least ONE thing to be NORMAL!! :lol:

That's my schpiel. Hang tough girl...you can DO IT!!!

JuniperJen

November 22nd, 2004, 05:08 PM

My retrieval date has been set! :) I will be going in on Wednesday morning at 10:00. I am supposed to take my Ovidrel trigger tonight at 11:30.

My estradiol level from Sunday was 2,043. My estradiol level today was 2,521. The nurse said that there are 9 follicles that are in the range they look for. :) My ultrasound results for today are:
lining: 14mm
right ovary: 7 follicles: 20mm, 20mm, 18mm, 17mm, 16mm, 14mm, 13mm
left ovary: 7 follicles: 22mm, 21mm, 20mm, 20mm, 19mm, 14mm, 13mm

I am so excited to actually have the retrieval appointment set up.
I am supposed to start my antiobiotics tomorrow. It will feel strange tomorrow not having any shots. I haven't had a shot-free day since October 29th! :lol:

Jennifer

Goo

November 22nd, 2004, 05:41 PM

Have you done an antral follicle check? It's an emotional roller coaster. :hug99:

Bev~No? What is it? I'm trying to get a list of important things I want to ask the Dr. about when I go in for my post-Op in December.

Suzi~Help??!!! Seriously, 7 failed IVFs and I feel like I have to come up with something they've missed!! I'm going to push more about the endometrial lining issues. Everytime I've asked, I've just been told that there are no issues with my lining yet I don't get any specifics. . .so I'm gonna push that point. I'm ready to get my FSH checked again. I also wanted to ask you about the baby aspirin. You had mentioned once that it's a part of your protocal. I know it's helpful for the uterine lining, can you explain more?

Ang~Sending positive thoughts your way. Beta day will be here soon. Think about turkey and stuffing? :biggrin:

Jen~Good for you. :yippee: You've got lots of great follies growing. I'll be thinking of you on Wednesday.

I've come out of my slump and I'm back on my feet and I'm not giving up!! :awink: DH and I are going to give a go on our own this cycle. In the meantime, I want to be fully prepared for my appointment. After 3 different Drs, I'm still feeling like I'm not getting the kind of care I would like. I feel sometimes like I'm just another number, another statistic. :blue: At this point in my struggles to concieve, I feel like I'm in the middle of a mind boggling mathematical question that I know there is an answer for and I just need to come up with it. I need to look outside the box or something. There has just got to be something that "we" haven't thought of. And when we think of it, it'll be like a lightbulb going on. :nod: This is where my head is right now. . .I've got to find the "missing link". I just can't stand thinking that this is all due to bad luck!! Can I just pout for a second? O.K. I'm done. Yes, it is a rollercoaster ride.

Kimberly

AngCTRealtor

November 22nd, 2004, 07:20 PM

Thanks Suzi for the pep talk. I needed that like you wouldn't believe. I have been so up and down today it hasn't even been funny. I think I will stay away from POAS.

I have to up my PIO to 1.5 cc, my progesterone was on the low side so that kind of started my day on a negative point. Everyone is saying not to give up and just because I don't feel anything doesn't mean squat. I guess I have just come to the point where whatever happens happens and there is nothing I can do. It is completely not in my hand's but God's and I do have a strong faith in him.

Jen~That is so great you have an actual date and time!! I hope you get many many mature eggies.

Bev

November 22nd, 2004, 07:54 PM

Bev~No? What is it? I'm trying to get a list of important things I want to ask the Dr. about when I go in for my post-Op in December.

Well, to be honest, I'm not entirely certain what an antral follicle check is. But I did read about it at www.advanced-fertility.com (http://www.advanced-fertility.com) an EXCELLENT website that writes everything in plain English.

To the best of my knowledge it is a test they do on "women of a certain age" (ie you and I :lol: ) to determine their ovarian reserve and how many (?) and the quality (?) of eggs they have left. Given that you've done so many IVFs already I would have thought they'd have done this, but I'm a novice so I don't really know. Besides why would they do this if you're paying big $$ for the rest and this might actually save you money or change your options so you aren't paying as much. Gee, did that sound cynical? :)

Jennifer Good Luck!
Angela Good luck to you too! FYI I have virtually no pg symptoms except lack of AF and a bit bigger bbs and belly. :)

Suzi

November 22nd, 2004, 10:08 PM

Ang, for what it's worth, I NEVER had a single PG symptom the ENTIRE time I was PG with Julia. Not one. So everyone who tells you that no PG symptoms doesn't mean squat...well, they're RIGHT!!! :nod:

And don't sweat your progesterone being low. ACTUALLY, they SHUOLD have told you that your progesterone is low for an IVF cycle, NOT that it's low for PGY. :rolleyes: In an IVF cycle, the standard for progesterone is about 1-1/2 times that of what a normal PGY is. So you were probably still WELL within the normal limits for a PGY, they just like to have it EXTRA high for IVF cycles. We're counting the days with you - whatever the outcome, you will handle it.

Kimberly, yes, my center has baby aspirin as a matter of course for ALL IVF cycles. One baby aspirin a day helps to thin the blood and makes both implantation AND early nutrient exchange easier for the embryo/s. I'd push for it if I were you. And if they won't do it, I'd do it on my own. It doesn't affect anything else, there's no reason not to. As for an antral follicle check, I think that's a good next step. Like Beverly said, that test is supposed to tell them the ovarian reserve. If they don't want to do it, I'd want a good reason why not. Another thing, have you considered checking out other centers in your area? At least a consult might be something to think about. Sometimes that extra set of eyes is all it takes to see the situation differently enough to find the solution. Who knows? :dunno:

schwanda

November 23rd, 2004, 08:56 PM

Angela - Hang in there! I also had NO pregnancy symptoms. None. Ever. (Until I got a big belly and could feel him kicking). No nausea, no sore boobs, no peeing frequently. Nothing.
Jennifer - Hope the retrieval brings more great news!
Kimberly - You continue to amaze me with your strength! I wish I knew more about these tests...

Amanda

AngCTRealtor

November 24th, 2004, 05:47 PM

Hi guys,

I am not doing well today. Had a little meltdown on the way home from work. I have been having cramps and that has been getting me down. It just feels like all the other IUI cycles when I wasn't PG and then AF came. I know I have to accept this if it doesn't work but it just hurts all the same. I am better now, I guess I just had to let it out. I have not given up all hope as I believe anything can happen and I know God will get me through as he always has. We will see in 4 days... Thanks everyone of you for your encouragement and support, I am so glad I have you all to talk/vent too and I know you all understand where I am coming from and not just thinking what a wuss I am.

Have a wonderful Thanksgiving Suzi, Kimberly, Beverly, Jennifer, and Amanda!

Suzi

November 24th, 2004, 07:58 PM

Hang in there Angela. Cramping is every bit a sign of AF as it is PGY. Don't let it affect you too much - IF you are PG, that embryo needs all the positive energy it can get! Just a few more days - and in the meantime, I am praying for you!

AngCTRealtor

November 24th, 2004, 08:43 PM

Thanks Suzi, I am so weepy tonite. Thank God DH is going out with his buddies for a beer!

Well I have been on IVF connections reading up on cramps and all the reports from previous IVF'ers say cramps are more of a positive thing becasue the PIO delays AF. I sware almost everyone has had the cramps in the2ww and was PG. So now I am more hopeful than ever. Thanks for the prayers Suzi and please know I am doing the same for you.

JuniperJen

November 24th, 2004, 11:48 PM

I have very sad news. My retrieval did not go well at all. :(

During the procedure, even though I was in and out of conciousness, I could tell that something was wrong. I could hear the embryologist and RE discussing the problems they were having and I could tell they were all very confused by what they found. Evidentally, the eggs they found were not mature. :confused: According to my last two u/s and estrogen levels, I should have had at least 9 mature eggs and 5 smaller ones. At least 9 of my follicles were 20mm on Monday morning and my estradiol level was over 2,500. I took my Ovidrel trigger at exactly 11:30 pm on Monday as directed. I don't know what went wrong.

I spoke to the RE after the procedure. He said that they tested my blood to make sure the Ovidrel had absorbed in my body and it had. They do not know what would have kept my eggs from maturing.
He said that two of the eggs might be mature enough to be fertilized, but they were not mature enough to do ICSI. They are going to try and fertilize them tonight and will let us know tomorrow morning. With my husband's morphology problem, I don't know if they will even fertilize without ICSI. If they do fertilize, we would have the transfer on Saturday.

I am totally devastated. I had been looking forward to this day for months. I had resonded so well to the Gonal-F, the doctor had even said I was a "textbook case." We spent so much money for the medications and all the doctor visits and now we are going to be right back where we started.

I have been crying since I was in the recovery room and found out what happened during the retrieval. I don't know what to do.

Jennifer

schwanda

November 25th, 2004, 06:48 AM

Jennifer - I'm so sorry. Sending you hugs!
Angela - Fingers crossed.

HAPPY THANKSGIVING!

Amanda

AngCTRealtor

November 25th, 2004, 11:01 AM

Jennifer, I am so so sorry to hear your news. I hope those 2 eggs mature and fertilize. You are in my thoughts and prayers.

Angela

JuniperJen

November 25th, 2004, 11:19 AM

Thank you for the hugs and prayers, Amanda and Angela. :hug1: Please keep them coming.

I spoke to my RE about an hour ago. He said that as of this morning, we have one fertilized embryo. They attempted to fertilize 8 eggs. At least one was able to fertilize. I am trying to look on the bright side.
He said after reviewing my u/s, bloodwork, etc., the only conclusion he can come to is that my ovaries are not producing quality eggs. :blue:
He said that he is hoping my one embyo will implant, but if not we will make changes the next time we try IVF. He said that some people react negatively to BCP (which I was on for 3 weeks). He also said that the Ovidrel was not very effective (according to my blood level). He said next time we would use HCG instead of Ovidrel.

If the embryo makes it, we will have the transfer on Saturday.

Please pray for this IVF to work.

Happy Thanksgiving,

Jennifer

Bev

November 25th, 2004, 03:24 PM

Good luck Angela!

Oh Jennifer. :blue: I'm so sorry. I will definitely be :crossfing this one implants.

Suzi

November 25th, 2004, 07:47 PM

Oh Jennifer, I am so sorry. :hugg99: I am praying for you!

JuniperJen

November 26th, 2004, 12:31 PM

Beverly and Suzi,
Thank you for the support, prayers, and hugs.
Update: Our embryo is still hanging in there! ;) It has divided into two cells, which is normal for 48 hours after retrieval. It is rated good.
We are scheduled for a transfer tomorrow morning at 11:00.
Keep those prayers coming!

I will keep you updated,
Jennifer

Suzi

November 26th, 2004, 01:41 PM

Jennifer - still praying!

schwanda

November 27th, 2004, 11:07 AM

Jennifer - I'm praying for your embryo!

Amanda

AngCTRealtor

November 27th, 2004, 02:09 PM

Jennifer, Hope the transfer went well today. ++++ thoughts and fingers crossed for you too!

Well tomorrow is the day that will end this excruciating wait. We will probably go around 8 am and get a phone call between 11am and 3pm. I am still feeling good and still having a few cramps here and there. No sign of AF either. I am afraid every time I go to and the bathroom I am going to see red.

Suzi

November 27th, 2004, 08:04 PM

Angela, I am praying for you! I totally understand expecting to see red every time. Even after my BFP with Julia I expected to see it for weeks to come. Eventually it goes away... Good luck to you! :pray:

JuniperJen

November 27th, 2004, 08:36 PM

Thank you so much for your prayers. :)

The transfer went well. We got to see our little embryo on video. It has six cells as of this morning. My lining is 13.7. Now I am just hoping and praying that the embryo implants.
I am now lying in bed while my DH takes care of me. :)

Ang,
I am hoping for a ++++++++++++ for you tomorrow!!!!

Jennifer

Suzi

November 28th, 2004, 12:10 AM

Ang, I am thinking of you and you are in my prayers tonight (extra-special, I mean)!

AngCTRealtor

November 28th, 2004, 07:47 AM

Thanks Suzi and Jennifer! I am on my way now to get my blood drawn.

I will keep you posted.

Suzi

November 28th, 2004, 09:12 AM

Just checking in...and still praying for you!

AngCTRealtor

November 28th, 2004, 02:30 PM

I have some sad news, I am not PG. I keep thinking there's been a mistake and any minute they will call me and tell me.

I am sad, devastated, angry, hurt, shocked. I could go on and on. I don't know what to do anymore. DH is doing worse than me. If that's even possible.

Thanks for all your support and prayers

JuniperJen

November 28th, 2004, 02:51 PM

Ang,
I am so sad for you and your DH. I had been praying that your test would be +. :(

Please know that we are here for you. :hug1:

Jennifer

Suzi

November 28th, 2004, 03:03 PM

Ang, I am so sorry. I know the pain you are feeling and I also know there's nothing I can do but send hugs and prayers your way. And I am doing that now. :pray:

We are all here for you and we'll do whatever we can to help you get through this. :nod: :hug99:

Suzi

November 28th, 2004, 04:44 PM

I read an article today that I thought others may find interesting. Some parts are questionable but there were some good points, too.

TURNING BACK THE REPRODUCTIVE CLOCK: New Science, Old Wisdom By Randine Lewis MSOM, L.Ac., Ph.D.

Regarding the human egg: How old is too old? Perhaps we are asking the wrong question. Remember the psychological argument about nature vs. nurture? Let’s rephrase the topic altogether. How can we help women in their mature reproductive years produce healthy children? I propose that the answer is found in the nature vs. nurture discussion. Nurturing the follicle in the 120 days before ovulation will produce a healthy egg, free of transmutation, free of the need for medical intervention.

Scientists have told us that in about 45 years all the eggs that we’re born with will have deteriorated. Yet, the latest evidence is challenging our previous doctrine. Now, they pronounce, mammalian ovaries may have specialized stem cells that make new eggs throughout the female’s life. And this could, they say, lead to powerful new treatments for infertility. Women who heretofore have been told that their eggs are “too old” to become babies, are renewed with hope, just as they were when cytoplasmic transfer was a promising solution a few years ago. Yet, as scientists and politicians snatched that possibility away from us, we were left once again with the hopeless pronouncement that old eggs have a dismal possibility of propagating. Letting a youthful woman donate her fresh, perfect eggs to replace our shriveled, dieing ones has been the only answer for women with “poor quality” eggs. Poor quality eggs mean the ones that won’t act in response to Western medicine’s attempt to force a pregnancy in a reproductive system that seems resistance to artificial hormonal stimulation. They call us “poor responders”, “clomid failures”, or “IVF failures”.

I have been treating poor responders, older women with high FSH, those with premature ovarian failure, poor quality eggs, and” eggs.

In an effort to understand what this process really was, I had to shift my own paradigm. After completing my medical school academics, I too was told I was infertile. Barren was the word that ca yes, even those dismal “IVF failures” for years. Yet because of their successful response, I no longer believe the dogma that our eggs deteriorate, that they go bad, or that we are failures. I believe Western reproductive medicine sometimes fails us. Why? Because when I have been able to embrace a woman whose only desire in life is to become a mother, using the ancient wisdom of Chinese medicine, within a few months of gentle ovarian balancing therapy, her body responds. Her ovaries seem to wake up in reply, somehow liberating “healthyme to mind, and panic set in. I could tell that this terror was worsening my already bleak diagnosis. But, fortunately, I held a kernel of disbelief within that wouldn’t accept my doctor’s pronouncement. By this time I had enough medical knowledge to realize that since the endocrine system worked via feedback, that taking external hormones may force ovulation, but wouldn’t resolve the underlying disorder. After all, if my ovaries weren’t producing the right hormones, how could they be producing healthy eggs?! That’s what I had to find out on my own. And somehow I knew deep inside that the answer was natural and healthy, if I could just find it.

Let me explain what I have come to know about the amazing female reproductive system. First of all, it is perfectly created. The biology of the ovary itself is remarkably intelligent and interactive with the rest of the body. It is, after all, the source of all human life on this planet. Our body knows how to protect it, too. If a little boy gets mumps or a high fever, he may become permanently sterile. Not so a little girl. Her ovaries, although deep within her body, are protected from their surroundings before the process of meiosis is initiated.

This may make her ovaries temporarily unresponsive, but as her eggs are protected, so are they innately fruitful and responsive when the conditions are right. We have just been viewing them through scientific lenses which have no vision for what our role can be, not through the lenses of our deep, internal sense of knowing we have more potential than we are ever given credit.

“If we remain obsessed with seeds and eggs,

we are married to the fertile reproductive valley of the Mysterious Mother,

but not to her immeasurable heart

and all-knowing mind.”

- Hua Hu Ching

Let’s look at the immeasurable heart and all-knowing mind of the Mysterious Mother, that which is capable of bringing life into being. Take off the glasses of the scientific “truths” you have been commanded to believe, and put on your glasses which allow you to see from that internal place where our intuitive wisdom resides.

Whether we have a million egg cells or continually regenerating germ cells really isn’t the issue. What happens to the follicle, the egg’s miniature dwelling, as it’s cycling through its many phases of receptivity is extremely important to the health and future quality of its residing egg. Look at the following diagrammatic representation of the process within the human ovary at every reproductive stage. Puberty initiates this process, which continues until about age 52, the average age of menopause in the U.S.

Each follicle remains mere potential until it reaches its growth phase. Only NOW will its outcome be determined. Our multitudes of elemental follicles, in their initial dormant state, have not yet begun the phase of division. Then, by some mysterious ongoing signal, which even reproductive science doesn’t understand, hundreds of follicles are awakened from their primordial state of rest, about five months before one will be selected for ovulation. At this stage, they remain in a state of biologic perfection, until they begin to interact with their environment. Let’s follow one active follicle and its residing egg through this miraculous process of folliculogenesis.

About four months before this particular egg’s domain is selected to be the lucky ovulatory one, a chamber of fluid appears within the follicle. The follicle quadruples in size, and undergoes many stages of proliferation as the fluid filled chamber expands. Now hormone regulating factors within the ovary itself (which is responding to our own internal environment) start to influence the contents of the follicular fluid. The ovary’s messages to the follicle, which are affected by blood flow, nourishment, and hormonal cues within the body, influence the state of the follicular fluid. Regulatory proteins, hormones and growth factors begin to appear about the time the egg starts to undergo division. In a perfect, non-stressed milieu, the messages will be clear, and the egg will be healthy. However, if any of three factors are substandard, the health of the egg will reflect the state of the rest of the body:

1)If nourishment is poor,

2)if the hormonal cues have been interrupted, or

3)if the blood flow has been compromised.

The egg’s health is determined during the growth phase, when protein synthesis occurs - after the egg has starts to communicate and become responsive to hormonal and environmental factors: 3 months before it is released. This is what determines egg quality!

If blood flow to the ovary has been compromised through stress or age (as we approach menopause the ovarian blood flow is around five times less than when we were in our reproductive prime), the follicular fluid will contain rising levels of vascular endothelial growth factor, the same chemical found in a damaged heart muscle, which signals the body that the organ is asphyxiating and needs more blood flow.

Further, poor diet begins to show its effects the older a woman becomes. This is the time her system can become revved up with nutritional supplements.

And, as a woman ages, her hormone levels start to fluctuate. The lack of communication between the brain, the pituitary gland, and the ovaries makes the follicles resistant, and they quit paying attention to follicle stimulating hormone.

All of these changes are reflected in the follicular fluid, which will determine the health of the egg.

Western reproductive medicine can only manipulate the follicles during the selection phase, after the quality and health of the residing oocyte has been determined! I knew my reproductive system was not healthy. When I was faced with my own fertility challenges, I had to find other methods to improve this scenario which had occurred inside my own body. I found three methods that worked:

1) Blood flow - Fortunately, I found that certain acupuncture and acupressure techniques are known to improve blood flow to the ovaries. Better circulation to any organ improves its function, and this is especially true of the ovaries, the follicles, and their residing eggs. The femoral massage, ovarian massage, and electroacupuncture to the low back dramatically reduce the stress and age induced constriction of the uterine and ovarian blood vessels.

2) Nourishment - Certain dietary supplements like wheat grass, blue-green algae, and royal jelly are known to affect the nutritional state of follicular health, and therefore the state of the egg. Avoiding coffee (tea is O.K., it doesn’t release stress hormones), refined carbohydrates, and for most people – avoiding dairy and hormonally treated animal products will clear out the toxic effects of poor diet.

3) Hormonal balance – our delicate endocrine systems operate via feedback, meaning that the hormones won’t work appropriately unless the brain senses the right cues from our tissues. Properly prescribed herbal formulas, which address the underlying pattern of imbalance, can restore our own hormonal functioning. By stimulating the body’s own reproductive tissues at different parts of the reproductive cycle, herbal medicine is a gentler, healthier, more organic response to fertility problems. Herbal formulas are combined in sophisticated preparations which actually create greater effects than the same herbs would if taken alone. Most of the ingredients in our herbal formulas prescribed for fertility challenges have little or no direct hormonal effects, but the effect of the whole formula will substantially increase hormone levels. This synergy of different herbal combinations is at the base of many of the Chinese patented herbal formulas. These are either unaided or are employed in preparation for assisted reproductive techniques.

When hormone levels are balanced, and when adequate blood flow, oxygenation and nourishment are provided during the follicular growth phase, women become pregnant naturally, with their own healthy eggs, as I did with mine (it took three months). If they opt for Western reproductive methods, the likelihood of success is substantially increased. When we encourage a woman’s body to return to more youthful reproductive condition, then the ovaries produce and release eggs in the same way they did when we were younger. This assumption was confirmed in a recent scientific study where the ovaries of menopausal rats were transplanted into hormonally youthful rats’ bodies. Guess what? The ovaries resumed ovulation!

This isn’t a process of struggle, of swimming upstream against all odds, of “forcing” a pregnancy. You can’t force a pregnancy, I can’t force a pregnancy, and your RE can’t create a life without the cooperation of the same universal forces that our bodies respond to. Life is allowed to manifest, which is a process of acceptance. We hear examples of this universal truth all the time. When we let go of our tight hold, and loosen up our grip on the outcome, (through giving up, through adoption, through being told we’re hopeless, too old, or whatever else ends the struggle), we can finally unclench; we can lift up our hands and let go. Only then does the space open up for our reproductive energies to become receptive. Only then can Life say, “O.K., now you’re ready!”

Hailey was one such woman. This 44 year old desperately wanted a child, and thus went through multiple cycles of hormonal stimulation and inseminations, always to fail. Despite her doctors telling her there was no hope; she was just too old, she kept going, kept searching, not accepting “no” for an answer. She came to see me and began a regimen of dietary adjustment, acupuncture stimulation and herbal therapy. She enrolled in a mind-body wellness program for stress reduction. The last doctor she consulted told her at her age, he would only help her if she considered a donor egg in-vitro procedure, using another woman’s younger eggs. Hailey gave up her quest. Yet she continued on her regime of healthful living, as the combined methods seemed to be allowing her to accept her state of heartache better. Hailey became pregnant naturally. She gave birth to her son during her 45th year.

As in Hailey’s case, it is important for women of all ages to be able to empower themselves and trust their own inner wisdom. There is much that can be done to preserve, enhance, and increase our fertility at almost every stage of life. Yes, we can extend our childbearing years if needed, but we also must learn to celebrate the stages of our lives as they occur, to accept our full potential and also our limitations, and to maintain our health at its highest level no matter what our age or stage in life.

Bev

November 28th, 2004, 07:46 PM

Angela :blue: I'm so sorry. :hug99:

Suzi, I've heard of Randene Lewis, doesn't she have a website of her own too?

Suzi

November 28th, 2004, 08:52 PM

Here is more info about what she does:

http://fertilityretreats.com/

schwanda

November 29th, 2004, 12:38 PM

Angela - I'm so sorry for your sad news.
Jennifer - Fingers crossed.
Suzi - That's very interesting! Thanks for sharing. Good luck with the stims!

Amanda

Ana975

November 29th, 2004, 12:40 PM

Ang, I am so sorry. If there's anything I can do, please let me know.

Jen, I'm praying that your little embryo implants.

Suzi, good luck with the stims. Do you have enough? I totally forgot to send you the ones I had. Do you need them?

schwanda

November 29th, 2004, 03:36 PM

I just made an appt with my RE for Jan 24th. That way we can start the process for a frozen embryo transfer if I'm not PG on my own by then...

Amanda

Suzi

November 29th, 2004, 03:44 PM

Amanda, I am hoping for you! :crossfing:

Ana, don't sweat it - I was VERY FORTUNATE that my IVF center gave me $2300 worth of samples and I am covered. Hopefully someone else who doesn't have drugs covereed will be able to use them so hang on to them and get all new ones for your next cycle (if it's all the same to you as far as co-pays).

AngCTRealtor

November 29th, 2004, 08:14 PM

Hi Ladies,

I am doing ok. Today was tough at work but I got through it. I broke down a couple of times, but that is to be expected. Friends of ours sent flowers to my work with a message of "Don't give up". I started bawling the minute the flower delivery man walked in because I knew. It was very encouraging and I know our family and friends want this for us more than anything. Everyone has been so supportive! I think they are just as disappointed as we are. We are not going to give up and we are going to try again. Not sure when but we will.

My RE called me first think this morning and was very sorry. He does not want us to give up and thinks that this can still happen. He told me that our 5 other embryos didn't make it. He also said that the egg quality was not that great. Which was definitely a shock to me but I guess with PCOS it is not uncommon. He also said that a lot of my eggs were immature and next cycle a lot will be different. He will have me use repronex and lupron, and definitely the HCG to trigger. He also wants to push my cycle a few days out before retrieval to see if the maturity of the eggs will be better. He said this is not hopeless and he is pretty sure with the new protocol I will have better quality eggies. He was very encouraging! He also said that he will talk to the finance dept to see about a discount /break for the next cycle. I was pretty shocked to hear that but nonetheless encouraging. he said as far as meds are concerned, they get a lot of donations so not to order them until I talk to him first. Ryan and I are looking at our options, we had looked into the shared risk IVF, that was our first instinct and for a lousy $5,000 more we would have had 3 cycles with 70% refund if no success. I guess what makes it even harder is that we totally paid all of this out of pocket(my 401k)and we got nothing in return. That is a hard blow to get. I told Ryan let's sell the house and move to Mass since they have the best IF coverage and we live so close as it is. It just does not seem fair that one state can have it covered and others not too. Ok I am talking all your heads off. I will quit for now.
Anyone know what will help with egg quality? herbs, acupuncture, whatever, I will try it.

Ana~Thanks for being there! I think all I really need is people to talk to. Yes I am a talker!
Amanda~I hope you don't need that appt because you will be PG already. I've heard of so many women doing IVF and then getting PG a few months after. Pregnancy must shake something loose!
Jennifer~ Stick baby Stick~ We need a BFP in here soon.

Suzi

November 29th, 2004, 08:58 PM

Angela, the article I posted above had stuff in it about improving egg quality. And Kimberly can tell you even more, I bet. I am so glad that your family and friends are so supportive - you are very fortunate! And for the money - I feel you on that one! Three cycles this year with BFNs and we are tapped out. When you ahve to get drugs though, there is a forum for buying/selling drugs on a website called www.fertilitext.org (http://www.fertilitext.org) and you can get drugs from people who have extras. I was able to buy 30 vials of Repronex for $625 and my cost from Freedom Drug (the cheapest place to get fertility drugs in the US) would've been about $1200. I sure wish I would've found them earlier. :doh:

Please know that we are all here to listen and offer whatever support/helpful words/advice we can. IVF is a rough road and we are all on it together. :nod:

:hug99:

schwanda

November 30th, 2004, 04:28 PM

Angela - I'm sorry you're going thru this. I'm glad to hear that you had some encouraging news. My RE insisted that we use the intramuscular HCG shot for all of our cycles b/c he thinks it's more reliable.
Suzi - Hoping your cycle is going well!

Amanda

AngCTRealtor

November 30th, 2004, 06:28 PM

Amanda~I knew when I wasn't going to be using the HCG something was up.

Ok where the heck is AF? I haven't taken the PIO since SAT nite and AF is nowhere in sight. I told my RE yesterday I still haven't gotten it and he said to call him in 2 days if I do not get it and I will have to go for another blood test. Now I really do not want to go through that again. The finance dept called and said they are doing shared risk IVF for sure starting in Jan. I was happy and relieved to hear that.

JuniperJen

November 30th, 2004, 08:23 PM

Ang,

I am so glad to hear you sounding so positive. The shared risk program sounds great.
I don't know what to tell you about AF.:scratch:

Sorry I have been absent lately. I am feeling terrible. I finally broke down and called my RE this evening. I have been having a stomach ache, diarrhea (sorry, TMI):blush1: , nausea, and dizziness all day. This afternoon, I developed a fever that has been rising. My RE thinks I either have food poisoning or a GI infection. I am going in tomorrow morning for blood work and a urine analysis. Until then, I can only have clear liquids.
I hope they can figure out what is wrong.

Jennifer

Suzi

November 30th, 2004, 09:03 PM

Jen, I am sorry that you are sick! Hope you feel better soon!

I am still plugging away on shots. I go for my first progress check on Thursday and I am not getting my hopes up. I feel nothing going on (so far) and I expect about the same response as last time (two times, actually). I am hanging in there nonetheless...

Suzi

December 1st, 2004, 09:57 AM

I just got this email today, thought I'd pass it on!
Don't forget to join The AFA for an online educational session, part of our Connections program. This is a wonderful opportunity to get your questions answered by leading physicians, learn something new, and find support.

www.theafa.org/connections/chat.html (http://www.theafa.org/connections/chat.html)

Date: Wednesday, December 1, 2004
Time: 8:00-9:00 PM (EST)
Special Guest: Andrew Levi, M.D.
Topic: Unexplained Infertility

We look forward to your presence!
Warmly,

The AFA Staff
I have participated in a few chat sessions and have found them to be pretty informational.

schwanda

December 1st, 2004, 11:22 AM

Angela - I always got AF really late on my IUI cycles that failed. That's great news about a shared risk program!
Jennifer - Feel better!!!
Suzi - Fingers crossed for your progess check! Thanks for the info...

Amanda

Suzi

December 1st, 2004, 04:33 PM

Jennifer, any news?? I hope you are feeling better!

JuniperJen

December 1st, 2004, 04:51 PM

I am feeling so much better today (thanks for asking!). My fever went up to 101 last night so my RE had me go in for bloodwork and a urine analysis this morning. My white blood cell count is elavated, but my RE said that it is not outside the range they see after an ET. He thinks that I had a virus or GI infection that (thank goodness!) was short-lived. There has been a stomach bug going around my school for about a month. I guess I finally caught it. At least I am feeling better now. That was miserable.:dead:

My RE said that the sickness should not affect my ability to get pregnant this cycle since my fever was never above 102. I was glad to hear that.

Did I tell you that my beta is scheduled for Monday? I can't believe it is so soon. It was actually supposed to be on Wednesday, but we are leaving that day for a vacation. If I am pregnant, they want to do two betas two days apart to make sure my levels are doubling. Because of that, my RE moved my first beta to Monday. I will be glad to know a couple of days early. The only problem is that I have a baby shower on Monday after school. If I get a ----, I will have to figure out how to get out the baby shower. That would be too much to handle.

I am going back to work tomorrow for the first time since my ET. At least I will only have two days until the weekend. :lol:

Have a nice evening!
Jennifer

Suzi

December 2nd, 2004, 10:30 AM

Jen, I am glad you are feeling better!! Thank goodness this won't affect your chances! Still praying for you!!

From my journal:
We had our progress check and it was a LITTLE better than I'd hoped. There is one follicle on the left side (measuring 15) and there are FOUR follicles on the right side (10, 12, 15, 16). I am HOPEFUL that we can get all of them to mature, at least my body is pretty good about that. Sooo...where I was prepared for only 3 follicles we actually have 5. Sad to say, but I am pretty happy with that. This afternoon I will have even better info when I get my estrodiol number. I will also find out my next appointment day (probably Saturday). I will post again later this afternoon!

Goo

December 2nd, 2004, 10:35 AM

Geez! I've missed so much in my absence. :sad:

Jennifer~You've had such a rough time. I'm so sorry about that you went through. :sadhug: I'm glad you're feeling better now and I'm thinking, hoping, and crossing my fingers for you now.

Suzi~Darnit! Thank you for posting the live chat, but of course I missed it. I wish I had seen the post sooner. Did you get online for it all? Also, I enjoyed reading the Randine Lewis article. I have her book and it's almost like my bible right now. I hadn't seen that particular article however and it was interesting to read. Thanks! :)

Ang~I'm so, so very sorry. :sadhug: Having been there, I know that there is just no way to take away your pain and that's something that has to take it's course. . .and it seems like you're definitely feeling better. I'm similiar in that I get really depressed and angry and then a few days later, I'm gung ho and ready to try again and do it with gusto! :awink: Suzi posted an article by Randine Lewis. She has an excellent book called, "The Infertility Cure". It is wonderful. I read it through as soon as I got it. Of course I'm not pregnant yet, but have come close. . . .but I truly believe in what she says in that there is a way to turn your egg quality around and also turn back your biological clock. Although I have always been a pretty healthy eater, I've changed my diet and definitely notice the difference in my periods, etc. According to Lewis, it takes about 3 months before you'll start noticing the changes. Like clockwork, I did the diet (and other stuff) for 3 months and it was that 3rd cycle that I got pregnant. Another women I know personally did it and got pregnant by her 3rd month as well. In MA, we are lucky to have several Whole Foods supermarkets which sell organic vegetables, hormone free meats, wheatgrass, etc. I do pretty much all my shopping there. Speaking of MA, if you do move here, you definitely have a buddy! :hug1: I never, never, never take for granted the fact that our IVFs are covered here. It is such a wonderful thing! If they weren't, I probably would not be here because I don't think we could've afforded it. . .at least not seven! My suggestion is to pick up Randine Lewis's book. It made me feel so much more positive about things and continues to keep me hopeful. And it's not just about trying naturally as there is also a chapter about how to get your body ready for an IVF. I'm definitely into the diet thing and can talk for hours about it. I also have a big ol' list of yummy recipes.

I'm doing well. DH and I tried on our own this cycle. I guess you could say I'm in my 2ww. My first Dr. appointment since the failed IVF is next Thursday. My girlfriend is confident that they'll go for a #8. Whether they do or not, I'm still confident that I will get pregnant someway or somehow. It's really the only way I can think right now.

Kimberly

schwanda

December 2nd, 2004, 02:23 PM

Jennifer - Glad you're feeling better!
Suzi - That's great that things are going well.
Kimberly - Good to see you!
I may get my RE appt moved sooner so we may be doing a FET sooner than expected...

Amanda

Goo

December 2nd, 2004, 02:46 PM

[QUOTE=schwanda
I may get my RE appt moved sooner so we may be doing a FET sooner than expected...Amanda[/QUOTE]

Goody!!!! :yippee:

Suzi

December 2nd, 2004, 03:07 PM

My E2 level is 262. I go for my next check on Saturday am. I am half happy, half disappointed with the results this morning (and the E2). My E2 is 20 points lower this time and I have two more follicles than last time. I am hoping that it's just because they are so small yet. I still just can't believe that we went from 9+ follicles and E2 levels of 2000 to this.

schwanda

December 2nd, 2004, 04:32 PM

Thanks Kimberly!
Suzi - I hope the results on Saturday are great!

Amanda

Bev

December 3rd, 2004, 08:44 PM

Suzi I hope the results on Saturday are what you want them to be. At least you have some good follies going! :0

Jennifer sorry you were so sick! :blue:

Kim you have such a positive attitude! I hope you get a :bfp: at the end of this 2wh. (2 week hell as we call it on my molar board. :) )

Angela :hug99:

Amanda Good luck with the transfer! :)

BrenS

December 4th, 2004, 02:42 PM

YAY Suzi! Lower E2 and more follicles usually means better embryos! At least that's what we found with our last retreival!

Suzi

December 4th, 2004, 03:53 PM

THERE YOU ARE!! I've been thinking about you Brenda! I FINALLY h ad a chance to catch up with you at your blog - I am THRILLED for you with the new RE!!! :aok:

So for news.... Today's follicle count was strange. Temper that with the fact that the nurse who scanned me is kinda ditzy - and she did Thursday's and today's. So... The u/s was fine...follicles growing as expected. There are THREE on the left and TWO on the right. On Thursday we measured ONE on the left and THREE on the right... :dunno: Like I said, the nurse who did my scans both days is kinda scatterbrained.

Anyway...here's the BIG NEWS!!!! My E2 jumped up to 870!!! That is higher than where I was for retrieval last time!! I am thrilled with the results - good follicle growth, great lining, and EXCELLENT E2 support....I am thinking very positive now!!

I go back tomorrow morning at 9:30am, I still feel like I will trigger Monday night for retreival on Wednesday (it's been the same three times before). I am quite pleased today with the progress!! YIPPEE!!! :yippee:

BrenS

December 4th, 2004, 04:15 PM

WOW! Nice jump in the E2. More juice to support the follies. :lol:

Seems like your cycle has gone by sooo fast!!!!

schwanda

December 4th, 2004, 04:27 PM

Suzi - I'm so excited for you!!! That's great news.
My RE appt is now on Monday at 4:30. I don't know how much of a work up I need before doing a FET but it seems like we're moving things up. We got this appt b/c my DH ran into our RE in the operating room last week and the RE offered to get us an earlier appt (I didn't realize this much earlier!). It's good to be in the business!

Amanda

Suzi

December 4th, 2004, 04:31 PM

Amanda, that's terrific!! Geez, I sure hope this group is turning around and getting some better news!! :nod:

Jennifer, you are going to have to lead us off! How you doing...hanging in there??

JuniperJen

December 4th, 2004, 04:43 PM

Suzi,

GREAT news on the follicles and the E2 levels. :yippee: I am so excited that you are close to your ER. I am hoping that this will be the cycle you get a +.

I am doing well, although I am extremely nervous. My beta is Monday. I am not having any symptoms. Periodically, I feel AF-type cramping. It is hard to balance out my emotions. I know it is important to keep a positive attitude, but I also don't want to get my hopes up. Dealing with IF for 3+ years has made me pretty cynical, I guess. I have been through so many cycles where I had my hopes up during the 2ww only to be crushed with a ---- test or AF showing up. IF has definitely changed me. :(
Speaking of Monday, I am thinking that I will probably take a HPT Monday morning before I go in for my beta. I wasn't going to, but I am going to be receiving my results Monday afternoon while I am teaching. If it is going to be ---, I need to be prepared. I cannot handle facing 28 children minutes after receiving unexpected bad news. I will only be 9dp3dt (12dpER), so I don't know if a HPT would even pick up anything yet. I definitely know that there will not be anything left of my trigger shot considering they did a blood test on the day of ER that showed the trigger didn't hardly work and my HCG level was very low.

On a lighter topic, I am trying to focus on packing for our vacation. :) We leave Wednesday for a cruise to the Bahamas and then two days at Universal Studios in Orlando. I am looking so forward to it after the stress of these past two months. I am trying to focus my mind on the vacation rather than worrying about whether I am pregnant or not.
My DH and I love cruises. We went on one for our honeymoon in 2001 and on another last summer. This cruise is actually FREE because our credit card points. The airfare is also free because we got bumped off our flight back from Orlando on Spring Break. We have season passes to Universal Studios/Islands of Adventure because we were there in March, so all we are paying for is our hotel and food after the cruise. This will be the cheapest vacation we have ever taken! :lol: That is very good news considering we may have to pay for another IVF cycle in January or February.
I am looking forward to the warm weather and also seeing all the Christmas decorations on the ship and at the theme parks.

I hope you are all having a nice weekend!

Jennifer

AngCTRealtor

December 5th, 2004, 10:34 AM

Hey everyone,

Sorry I have been MIA. My computer hit the bricks! Hopefully we will have it fixed this week.

Suzi~ I am praying for you for a smooth retrieval and transfer and of course for the big fat positive. I also agree that we do need some good news and turn things around in here.
Jennifer~I can't believe you are testing already! I hope you get to start things off in here. You are in my prayers! have a wonderful vacation if I don't get back here in time before you leave. My DH and I love cruising too. We did one to Bermuda for our honeymoon. We are talking of doing one again very soon!
Amanda~Great news! I bet you are all excited!

As for me, I have a little news. I came across a natropath DR in Danbury, CT who specializes in fertility and PCOS. She called me Thursday night and was so great over the phone. Very encouraging! She says she has had a lot of success with women like me. I really want to get ovulating again on my own. I am so sick of all these failed cycles and injecting my body with these drugs, not to mention the $$ that we are putting in to all this. My appt is Dec 13. I also have been exercising and watching what I eat and I lost 2 pounds this week.

Suzi

December 5th, 2004, 04:58 PM

Ang, excellent news!! :aok:

Jennifer, glad to hear you are hanging in. If you HPT, let us know as soon as you can. I am praying for you! :pray:

As for me, I had the CRAZIEST thing happen last night. I got HIVES. They can be an adverse reaction to Lupron, Follistim AND Repronex so who knows where the heck they came from. It started while we were on our way to our PG Christmas party and my forearms were itching like mad. I thought maybe it was the shirt I was wearing because it had been hanging in my closet since last winter. At the party, my arms kept itching and then I noticed that my ankles were starting to itch. As I was standing there scratching my legs with my foot, I remembered that I had been bothered by itching the night before in my sleep. After a while, my legs from the shins down were itching so bad I ended up calling the IVF coordinator. She said it was okay for me to take benadryl so we left the party a bit early to stop at the store to get some (we had some at home but Chris insisted that I get it in my system right away). When we got home I hopped in a hot bath and the itching stopped. I was covered with red splotches all over my arms and legs. When I got out the itching returned before I even got downstairs. We did our pm shot and I hurried back upstairs to the tub. I sat in there for a while and thought I was going to have to sleep in the tub it was so bad. Around midnight Chris came to bed and I went downstairs to sit in my robe, so nothing was touching my legs. I fell asleep pretty quickly and Chris came to see how I was doing around 1am. The itching was gone, thank God. Thankfully, it has not come back.

We went to our appointment and it was good. The IVF coord scanned me and I was happy about that. She measured SEVEN follicles and they are all in range but two and those two are both 16s. It looks as if we may have 5 or so embryos this time around!! Chris and I discussed it and we will push for ALL of them to be transferred. Actually, we will INSIST that all of them be transferred. We have no reasonable expectation that any will make it to blast for freezing so any we don't transfer will be lost.

Anyway, the scan was good news but the E2 was a little bad. Today's E2 DROPPED from yesterday - it is only 800 where yesterday was 870. She said it wasn't terrible but obviously was unexpected. I go back tomorrow for another scan at 8:40am and I fully expect we will get the direction to trigger tomorrow night.

So, the news is mixed - good follicle growth but the drop in E2 is a bit troubling. Lining is still great, hopefully the drop in E2 can just be attributed to my body dealing with the stress of the hives yesterday. Anyway, keep praying please - I need them more now than ever!!! :nod:

JuniperJen

December 5th, 2004, 06:07 PM

Ang,
I am glad you have gotten in contact with a new dr. It is great to hear that she has had so much success with others. I will keep my fingers crossed for you. Let us know how your appointment goes.

Suzi,
OMG, I am so sorry about your hives! Ouch! I am glad the itching is gone. Great news about your follicles! :yippee:
If I take a HPT tomorrow (who am I kidding, of course I will :lol: !), I will let you all know ASAP. I am probably going to have a hard time sleeping tonight.

Jennifer

schwanda

December 5th, 2004, 09:12 PM

Jennifer - I'm crossing all crossables for you!!!
Angela - Glad you have some good stuff going on!
Suzi - I'm sorry about the hives. That's very strange. I had my E2 levels drop during my IVF cycle right before trigger, too. It was a successful cycle so hopefully you'll have the same thing!

Amanda

JuniperJen

December 6th, 2004, 07:22 AM

Well, I took a HPT this morning. I am so excited - there is definitely a second line there, although it is very faint. I am scared to be happy because I am afraid that the HPT is wrong.
My beta is at 8:00am, but I probably won't know the results until 2:00 or 3:00. I am glad I have a busy day at school to take my mind off of things.
I will let you know as soon as I hear my results.

Jennifer

Suzi

December 6th, 2004, 12:46 PM

Oh JEN!!!! THAT IS GREAT!!! I know you've heard it before....a positive is a positive is a positive! CONGRATULATIONS!!! I am so happy for you - and I sure hope this is the start of a good trend! Now, don't put much stock into the number because a single beta number on its own means VERY little. You won't be able to put it in context until Wednesday when you get your second beta number and know that it is doubling accordingly. :nod:

:yippee: CONGRATULATIONS - and take care of that baby, Momma!!!!!! :yippee: :bighug:

Suzi

December 6th, 2004, 12:48 PM

Oops! I got so caught up in Jennifer's news that I forgot to post that we are triggering tonight. I am SO glad because I have been up since 3am with freaking HIVES. And now I have a splitting headache...this IVF HAS to work because my body can't take another one between the hives and the headaches. And I am beginning to think that my sore throat and sinus problems are also from the drugs! GOD, PLEASE LET THIS ONE WORK!!

~Andrea~

December 6th, 2004, 12:57 PM

:woo: Congratulations Jennifer!!

:pray: Good Luck Suzi :crossfing

schwanda

December 6th, 2004, 02:10 PM

CONGRATS Jennifer!!!
Sorry about the hives and the headache Suzi. Fingers crossed for a good retrieval!

Amanda

Ana975

December 6th, 2004, 02:22 PM

:yippee: Jennifer! Congratulations!

Suzi, sorry about the headaches and hives. Good luck!

Suzi

December 6th, 2004, 05:25 PM

I am getting excited, we have to be to the surgery center at 9am on Wednesday. We do our trigger shot tonight at 10pm and tomorrow I have my SHOT-FREE DAY!!! :yippee: I'm always pretty excited about that!!

My E2 was 960 today, that is fine. You figure about 200 for each mature egg and there are 7 follicles so I'd expect 4 mature eggs and three not mature enough to fertilize. I could be wrong...

So we will know on Wednesday how many eggs they got (I expect 4) and we will get a fert report on Thursday. It's strange, no matter how many times I've been here, I still get excited/nervous about this! I am so thankful that the technology exists to even DO this. What an incredible miracle!

JuniperJen

December 6th, 2004, 05:33 PM

I got my beta result. It is 56. :) I know that is low, but I am only 9dp3dt. The nurse said that was within normal range.
I go back for another beta on Wednesday.
I am SO happy!

Jennifer

Suzi

December 6th, 2004, 05:44 PM

Well, 56 isn't all that low for 9dp3dt when they shoot for 100 on 11dp3dt!! That is RIGHT on target considering doubling happens every 24-48 hours early on!

CONGRATS MOMMY!!!

Goo

December 6th, 2004, 06:10 PM

Jen~Awesome! :yippee: Of course, we're waiting for more details. :awink: By the way, I'm even getting excited for your trip! DH and I are going on a cruise in April '05, but we've never been before. We're going because so many people we know have had so much fun on them. Anyway, enough of that. . .I hope that you're all smiles today. :bighug:

Ang~I'm glad you're back and ready to continue on. I have to say again, that for myself in particular, I also started feeling like my body does worse on the drugs than if I just try naturally. It's just a gut feeling. :dunno: Speaking of which. . .

Suzi~What the heck???? That totally stinks! Have you ever had hives in your life before? Do you think it's from the stress of another cycle or from the drugs themselves? I hope it's resolved soon so that you can just concentrate on your follicles and the retrieval.

I'm feeling quite good emotionally and physically. Perhaps it's just the Holiday season that makes me a little giddy. My post op appointment is coming up on Thursday. . .finally! I have some specific questions for the Dr. although it's my fear that I'll leave my next appointment feeling the same as usual: that there is no real answer for why these things are happening to me and it's just some bad luck I'm going through. I try really hard to change my thinking into: someone out there is looking out for me and though this may seem like a setback, it may really be a blessing in disguise. I guess it just helps me get through this. :nod:

Kimberly

schwanda

December 6th, 2004, 09:06 PM

Jennifer - CONGRATS!
Suzi - Good luck with the trigger/retrieval!
Kimberly - Glad to hear you're feeling good!!! I LOVE the holidays, too!

RE appt went well. It seems like we may be doing this stuff sooner than expected. I know I should be thrilled but I'm feeling a little overwhelmed. I'll explain more tomorrow - gotta run...

Amanda

Suzi

December 7th, 2004, 01:05 AM

Amanda, I'm glad to hear the ER appt went well. It can be overwhelming even for subsequent cycles, hang in there, we'll be here for you!

Suzi

December 7th, 2004, 01:06 AM

Oh yeah...and wouldn't you know - the hives are back!!!

Suzi

December 7th, 2004, 01:10 AM

I'll get it all sooner or later.

Trigger shot was tonight. It was uneventful but we did a subQ Ovidrel shot instead of an IM hCG shot. I looked on the internet and it seems the Ovidrel is just as effective as hCG for trigger but it still makes me nervous to change things. :eek: :crossfing

Bev

December 7th, 2004, 12:58 PM

Congratulations Jennifer! :)

Good luck Suzi and Amanda! :)

Suzi

December 7th, 2004, 09:04 PM

Okay....I have to check in tomorrow at 9am, the retrieval is at 10am. If I don't get nauseous from the anesthesia, I should be home by 11:30. If I do get queasy, they make me stay for a full bag of IV fluids and that typically takes an extra 60-90 minutes. Anyway, I will post as soon as I can how any eggs we got (still expecting 4).

Please say some prayers for us - my body really needs for this IVF cycle to be the last!! :pray: :nod:

JuniperJen

December 7th, 2004, 10:51 PM

Suzi,
Good luck tomorrow! I will keep you in my thoughts and prayers.
I hope everything goes perfectly. :)
Jennifer

Suzi

December 7th, 2004, 11:18 PM

Jennifer, be sure to update us on your beta numers befoer you leave! Good luck and have a great trip!

JuniperJen

December 7th, 2004, 11:20 PM

I will let you know as soon as I find out.
:)
Jennifer

schwanda

December 8th, 2004, 07:59 AM

Suzi - I'm sending prayers for a good retrieval!!!

I'll post the info about my RE appt in the Jan thread...

Amanda

Suzi

December 8th, 2004, 02:29 PM

Well, we are back. They got 5 eggs, one more than I expected. Strange thing - the RE had to leave one because he couldn't get to it behind my ovary. Oh well, it's not like we needed it anyway. Now we wait until the fert report tomorrow to find out how many embryos we have to transfer back. I suspect we may have 5 (we have good fert rates) and then we are in a pickle 'cause I'm certain they won't put back 5.

I will give details later, for now I am just tired. Thanks for all the prayers, I can't tell you all how much it means to me.

schwanda

December 8th, 2004, 03:02 PM

GREAT NEWS SUZI!!! I'm glad things went well. Fingers crossed for the fert report.

Amanda

JuniperJen

December 8th, 2004, 03:32 PM

GREAT news, Suzi! 5 eggs! :yippee:

My beta doubled since Monday. It is now 125! :) It is starting to feel more real to me now.

We leave this evening for our cruise. I will miss you guys!

I hope your transfer goes well, Suzi!

Jennifer

schwanda

December 8th, 2004, 04:04 PM

HOORAY Jennifer!!! Have a great cruise!

Amanda

Suzi

December 8th, 2004, 04:20 PM

Thanks, Jennifer! And :woo: to you - gerat numbers! Have a fabulous time on your cruise - it may be the last one you take for a while (Not including the Disney cruise, that is!)!!! :nod: :biggrin:

AngCTRealtor

December 8th, 2004, 05:38 PM

Hi Ladies!

So much going on in here. I am so lost without my computer! Hopefully, I will get it back tomorrow.

Jennifer~CONGRATULATIONS! I am so happy for you! have a great cruise. You guys deserve it!
Suzi~Sounds like the retrieval went great! Sorry I couldn't get here beforehand to wish you good luck and let you know I was thinking of you. Hope you get great news soon!

Suzi

December 8th, 2004, 08:43 PM

Had a pretty relaxing day, I was kinda fuzzy in the head for longer than I remember with other retrievals.

We did try to use less anesthesia this time. I metabolize anesthesia differently than most people (go figure) and my first retrieval I was wide awake for the first few needle sticks. Let me just say, that's not an experience I was willing to repeat so I made DANG sure that when we went for our second round (seems like ages ago!), I was adamant about not wanting to remember/feel it. Since they pumped me up with drugs the first time, they have done the same each subsequent time and I have wondered if that may be affecting our success chances. Anesthesia is IMMEDIATELY found in follicular fluid once administered, so the eggs are getting it, too. Anyway, I talked with the anesthesiologist about walking that fine line where I don't feel the pain but lessening the drugs to hopefully improve our outcome. It ends up that I still got almost as much anesthesia as I have previously, kinda bums me out. She said I am just a super-responder to painful stimulus and it is important that I be very still or the RE could injure the intestine or bowel. Oh well, it's all over now. I do remember more of this retreival, small bits of the needle sticks but I remember them as pressure rather than pain.

Anyway, all in all it was an average retreival. I am looking forward to the fert report and will post as soon as I get it tomorrow afternoon. Hope everyone is having a great week!

schwanda

December 9th, 2004, 07:49 AM

Suzi - Can't wait to hear the fert report! Fingers crossed.

Amanda

Suzi

December 9th, 2004, 12:58 PM

From my journal:

Well, I am in shock. All we have is 2 embryos from the 5 eggs. We never even considered this a possibility, we've always had great fert rates and expected 4-5 embryos. What a blow.

Goo

December 9th, 2004, 01:36 PM

Suzi~I'm sorry your Fert results are not what you had hoped for. :sadhug: It sounds like my last cycle! :rolleyes: Even though I only had one embryo by the time of the transfer, it was the best I've ever had (9-celled, highest grade). Hopefully, you'll have two beautiful embies ready to transfer. :crossfing

I had my appointment today. :blue: Let's just say, I didn't leave feeling on the top of the world. :crazy: Basically, he suggested other options--donor egg, adoption, etc. He gave me all the statistics about being 40 (blah, blah, blah), about how poorly I responded in the last cycle even with the high amount of drugs, on so on and so forth. :rolleyes: Understandably, the Dr. has to give me those facts. He didn't push it by any means, but said that if I wanted to go for another IVF, he would submit it to my insurance. . .who he said, may very decline covering me for another cycle. What we decided is that I would do the Clomid Challenge (AF should start this weekend), go over the results with my Dr. and then make a decision as to whether I'd like the Dr. to submit me for another IVF. In reality, I'm not gung ho for another IVF or rather, going through the process of taking all those drugs. I think for my own personal information, I'd just like to see how I'd do on the Clomid Challenge. Perhaps it will just push me toward going ahead with the adoption process. (I'm not sure if I even want to try donor egg). In any case, I'm still not giving up with my own body. Both physically and emotionally, I feel absolutely wonderful right now. I feel strong, healthier than ever, and very positive about my life. I don't care right now that at the age of 40, that 50 or 60% of my eggs could be chromosomally damaged. I care that there may still be 40% of great eggs and DH and I will find them. :awink:

Kimberly

schwanda

December 10th, 2004, 10:21 AM

Suzi - I'm sorry the fert results weren't better. I hope you have 2 perfect embryos to transfer.
Kimberly - Sorry to hear your appt wasn't more encouraging.

Day 3 of provera...

Amanda

BrenS

December 10th, 2004, 07:44 PM

SO sorry Suzi.. about the fert report. I bet those two fighters are the lucky ones!!!
Praying for you!

Kim... who do you go to? Perhaps a 2nd opinion would be a good thing? The new doc that I'm seeing invented a special microscope that sees the eggs from the inside... and they can tell which eggs are good and which are not good quality.

Schwanda... looks like I'll be joining you on the provera train.

Suzi

December 11th, 2004, 04:36 PM

Brenda, that sure is what I'm praying for...

Transfer was this morning...all went fine. So at the moment, there are two little ones in there...hopefully they will stay put! I told Chris if they are anything like Julia we'd better be telling them "No, no!! Stop! Get out!!" and then they will stay. :lol:

I've been taking it easy all day, sitting on the couch and watching movies. My RE recommends staying low-key after transfer and resume all normal activity the following day. For now I am taking a break from the movies to steal Andrea's idea of making a Julia calendar for grandparents for Christmas. :nod:

Thanks for all the well wishes and good thoughts and prayers. I am praying these babies hang in there!

Bev

December 11th, 2004, 09:46 PM

Suzi, I just got back from 4 days away, so couldn't write earlier. I feel positive for you about those two strong ones! I hope they stick in there for about 9 months! :)

Kim, I hope you can get some of those issues resolved, but it sounds like you are in good spirits. :)

Goo

December 12th, 2004, 10:48 AM

Kim... who do you go to? Perhaps a 2nd opinion would be a good thing? The new doc that I'm seeing invented a special microscope that sees the eggs from the inside... and they can tell which eggs are good and which are not good quality.
I'm at Boston IVF. I was talking to a few other women who felt really let down by some of the BIVF Drs. Didn't you have a bad experience there? I would love to know who you're going to.

Suzi~I'm hoping and praying for you too! :bighug:

Kim, I hope you can get some of those issues resolved, but it sounds like you are in good spirits.

Thanks, but actually a day after I posted, I got really upset. I just started to feel that the Dr. had a set "speech" that is made at about the point, like me, where the patient has had several failed IVFs and they probably shouldn't continue any longer. But I was annoyed because every comment back to me was so negative. I understand that the Dr. has to talk statistics, but I know many other women who see Drs. that are more encouraging. For example, I've had 4 FSH test in the last 4 years. When I asked about those saying that only one was pretty high (9.5 while the rest were in the 5/6 range), of course he told me that high results are more correct than low results. Low results have more of a chance of being incorrect, while the high ones are more truthful. :scratch: He keep talking about my "damaged" eggs and when I mentioned that I recently had a pregnancy, albeit ectopic, that grew and grew he said something like, "I can understand how you could think the your two ectopics could have been viable embryos, but the fact is that they most likely got stuck in your tubes because they were in fact chromosomly damaged". Then he said something about me possibly having "diseased" tubes, which believe it or not, I let go because I was more focused on other issues I wanted to ask. My point is that all of a sudden, he says I might have diseased tubes, when I've had two HSGs that show me having perfectly clear & open tubes. But he throws that comment in and doesn't say anything about how my tubes could all of sudden be diseased and why something like that would not have shown up in the HSGs. For me, the fact of the matter is that DH and I got pregnant very quickly went I was 36. After the m/c & D&C, it went downhill from there. I started seeing an IF Dr. because 9 months after the D&C, I still wasn't pregnant! But even with the age factor, I refuse to believe that this solely has to do with poor egg quality because 3 years ago, I was having trouble getting pregnant, and it was after I turned 40, that I had the ectopic. It really just bugs the poop out of me that when I was 39, no one hardly ever brought up my age, and now that I'm barely a few months into 40, all of a sudden, I'm a lost cause. He basically told me that I had a very small chance of ever getting pregnant. I'm not saying that the Dr. was incorrect in his facts and information, I'm just saying that he could've added some positive comments with the negative. If my mindset is negative, then I'm sure my body will react to that type of thinking. If I believe however that I can still do this, then I can. I truly believe in mind over matter. . .but right now, I'm just pissed at my Dr.

Kimberly

Suzi

December 12th, 2004, 11:41 AM

Kimberly, I am sorry that your appointment was so awful! I have come across several women unhappy with BIVF - of course I have come across a few happy ones, too - but I'd have to say that the info I have about them is not positive overall. Have you and DH ever thought about a new RE? At the very least, it sounds like your RE could use a lesson or two in compassion.

As for what he said about the FSH, I don't want to sound like I am confirming what he said but my RE also said something similar. What they told me is that over the course of a year your Day 3's would vary and all but one could be in the normal range and that would be indicative of preimenopause. The bad thing is, you could have several Day 3's in a year and never hit the ONE elevated cycle. Perimenopause starts 7-8 years before menopause so you might find out when your mom/aunts/sisters (if you have any) started menopause. For me, I know that my mom started menopause around 47 (and my sister around the same time) so that I MAY be starting perimenopause now is not unforseeable. True, I have had good Day 3's but I've only had them done twice.

On the flip side of that....look at Beverly! Her Day 3's were 15 (if I remember correctly) and she got PG on her own! So that you CAN'T get PG is probably not quite accurate. I guess what I'm trying to say is don't let this guy jerk you around...you deserve the best chance at getting PG and quite frankly, if HE doesn't believe he can do it, I wouldn't either. (Just my completely unsolicited two cents)

JUST to throw it out there...have you ever thought about donor eggs? I know that using donor eggs pretty much negates ANY influence of age. I'm sure you're probably not there yet and I know that's a tough bridge to cross, I've thought about it myself. Just something to toss around. :dunno:

Kimberly, I know you'll make the right decision for you. And I'll be here to support you however I can! :nod: :bighug:

schwanda

December 12th, 2004, 03:56 PM

Brenda - Nice to have company!
Suzi - Fingers crossed for sticky embryos!!!
Kimberly - Sorry you had such a negative appt with your doc. I don't know enough to have helpful advice...

I haven't usually had problems with provera but it is definitely having its effects this time...

Amanda

Goo

December 13th, 2004, 01:54 PM

Thank you so much Suzi for your kind words of wisdom and support. :hug99:

I am thinking about going to see another Dr. I'm at a point right now where basically my Dr. has told me (in so many words) that he's done everything he can for me. I can continue my quest on my own (with the help of Eastern medicine--acupunture and the like) or I can certainly try to find another Dr. The issue is that I'm not sure that I want to even try another IVF. . .or I should say, the only way I'd do another IVF is if I could find another Dr. who was willing to actually try different things. . .run some tests that haven't been run, examine my tubes more closely, etc. as opposed to just having me blindly do another IVF and see what happens. That's all my whole IF history has been about--drugs and more drugs and let's see what happens!

I understand what you're saying about the FSH thing and I don't necessarily doubt what the doctor said. It was just that. . .it was just so cold. Granted, I'm quite sensitive at this point. You see when I first went saw an IF Dr. at the age of 37, they did the normal workup on DH and I. My FSH levels were quite low, and so back then, when I questioned that it could be my age, he was like, "You're ovulating like a 25 yr. old. There's no problem there". My uterus is tilted, and not that that is a big issue, the thought was that with a few IUIs, I should get pregnant in no time. Well I didn't. When I met my next Dr., she was great. After the initial workup with her, she had the same positive things to say which were basically that I should have no problems getting pregnant. She said she was honest with all her patients and having looked at all my records, getting me pregnant should be fairly easy. I really liked her as she was very thorough and paid attention to all my questions. But this was her own private practice and she suffered some bad luck--her mom was dying, she was having issues with her IVF provider and basically, her practice went under. So, I had to once again look for another Dr. When we first started, he was confident that I should have no problems getting pregnant. But here I still am. :tearhair: After my 6th failed IVF, he was ready and gung ho to try me for another one seeing the good results that I had with the 6th. But now that the 7th failed and I only had one *really good* embryo by the transfer, I think he just felt it was time for him to cut ties with me and let me go my own way. He gave up on me. But I know it's not me as a person. He needs stastics and mine isn't a good statistic for his resume. For example, when I mentioned that even though I had a small amount of follicles, I still had one nice embryo that was considered a HIP (high implantation probability), he said something like, "Well, just because it was a HIP, those can still have abnormalities." He couldn't even give me that!!! Just throw me a bone!!! Why add salt to my wounds?????

My mother didn't go into menapause until 55 or 56--which is quite late. The other Drs used that in consideration of my chances. Why couldn't this Dr. have said something like, "You don't seem to be responding well to the drugs or doing well on the IVF cycles. I still think you have a chance of getting pregnant, you are in your 40's, but you're in your very early 40s, and you did just get pregnant recently, and research shows that there is a direct correlation between mother's & daughters and menapause age and since you're mom went into it so late, you may just have some more time." I just wanted something to hold onto instead of, "Let me know if you need any help with finding resources for adoption."

I have thought of donor eggs, but haven't really THOUGHT of donor eggs. DH and I had planned on adopting and talked about it before we were married. We both feel that there are so many kids out there who need homes and since DH is adopted, he would like to give a child the same chances he had. While donor egg might get me pregnant, I'm just not sure that I would really want to do that. I'm sure DH and I will discuss this. We did talk about doing more investigating, etc. with adoption come January. At the very least, to figure out how we want to go about this when we eventually do.

As the Dr. was talking to me, I was thinking about Beverly, and another friend who had the exact same thing happen, and the numerous friends who failed at IVFs and got pregnant on their own, and the very, very, very many friends and co-workers who I know who had their first children in their 40s.

But you hit it on the head when you said, "you deserve the best chance at getting PG and quite frankly, if HE doesn't believe he can do it, I wouldn't either." I still have a world of confidence in my ability to get pregnant. I've never missed a period, I have 28 day cycles. I charted for 9 months and found my cycles to be text book cycles. Even with all the drugs I've taken, my periods get right back on course, the OPKs tell me that I'm still ovulating on CD13 or CD14. I've never been healthier and I've never taken as good care of myself inasfar as maintaining healthy relationships, taking time for myself, getting a good nights sleep, my relationship with my husband (and soulmate), exercise, positive thinking, etc. I just can't have my own Dr. bring me down like this. So therefore, I have to leave this whole episode behind me. I'm not going to consume myself with his negative comments any longer. So there, I'm done. :nod:

Thank you for letting me get this out. :bighug: :awink: